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Mississippi down to one abortion clinic

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Texashiker said:
Yes, exactly.

Just like the father has to pay child support and provide health insurance. Maybe he will learn some responsibility.

Both sexes should be held to the same degree of responsibility. By having unprotected sex the male gave permission to become a father. The same should hold true to the woman.




So much hate. Did your mother drink heavily while carrying you? Maybe you grew up in an older house with lead water pipes?




That the mothers choice if the wants to have a back alley abortion. Chances are nobody is going to make her do it.

Stand up and take responsibility for your actions.
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If abortion is made illegal again then all the unplanned kids will have to be paid for, IMPO it's just a matter of economics, sometime a woman has to admit she has little or no chance of giving a child the environment it deserves and if so abortion should be her choice. not the governments. Would you want a law passed that required any man who already has fathered 2 kids to report for a mandatory vasectomy?, of course not. I prefer adoption over abortion but let's get real here, are there that many couples willing to adopt a black of Hispanic baby, no....
 
eskimospy said:
There is nothing to rebut. You just stated your opinion without any facts to back it up.
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Benjamin Franklins grandfather (or was it his great grandfather) was a judge during some of the Salem witch trials. Towards the end of this life he noted how he had changed his mind of trials. The young girls who did the accusing were vindictive and that there were no witches. He expressed regret at how the trials ended.

How many examples do you want of women being vindictive and lying to get their way?

Maybe a few examples of men falsely accused of rape who spent a decade in prison?

On the topic of abortion women are playing the victim. That somehow protecting the life of a child infringes on her right to kill said child.
 
glenn1 said:
In a half-hearted semi-defense of his otherwise stupid position, we don't always need to justify banning something. For example, we have banned polygamy in this country while there's not really any moral or practical justification for doing so (tax laws related to marriage could be changed). The right to privacy that Roe v. Wade is based upon is not absolute nor is any other right. And your position of citing expected non-compliance with a law as being a reason not to pass the law is simply justifying your own preferences, not a reason in itself. One of the purposes of laws is to influence behavior, even if you think the law is stupid or counterproductive. It's no less valid a law if it's not 100% followed, for example we don't repeal all jaywalking or speed limit laws just because they're widely ignored by the public.
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We banned polygamy because it is not usually practiced between consenting adults but by forced marriage of underage girls.
 
Texashiker said:
Benjamin Franklins grandfather (or was it his great grandfather) was a judge during some of the Salem witch trials. Towards the end of this life he noted how he had changed his mind of trials. The young girls who did the accusing were vindictive and that there were no witches. He expressed regret at how the trials ended.

How many examples do you want of women being vindictive and lying to get their way?

Maybe a few examples of men falsely accused of rape who spent a decade in prison?

On the topic of abortion women are playing the victim. That somehow protecting the life of a child infringes on her right to kill said child.
Click to expand...

The only one I can see playing the victim posts under the name of Texashiker.
 
Texashiker said:
Benjamin Franklins grandfather (or was it his great grandfather) was a judge during some of the Salem witch trials. Towards the end of this life he noted how he had changed his mind of trials. The young girls who did the accusing were vindictive and that there were no witches. He expressed regret at how the trials ended.

How many examples do you want of women being vindictive and lying to get their way?

Maybe a few examples of men falsely accused of rape who spent a decade in prison?

On the topic of abortion women are playing the victim. That somehow protecting the life of a child infringes on her right to kill said child.
Click to expand...

How many examples do you want of men being vindictive and lying to get their way?

Your interpretation of events and circumstances surrounding unwanted pregnancies is a joke, and a poor one.

Why not proactively decrease the chances of unwanted pregnancies? Wider availability of condoms, cervical caps and spermicide, mandatory comprehensive sex education starting in fourth grade, availability and mandatory distribution of Plan B/morning after pills at all pharmacies and by all pharmacists, etc.
 
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alzan said:
Why not proactively decrease the chances of unwanted pregnancies? Wider availability of condoms, cervical caps and spermicide, mandatory comprehensive sex education starting in fourth grade, availability and mandatory distribution of Plan B/morning after pills at all pharmacies and by all pharmacists, etc.
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Lets be honest and open on your questions, because they are all good topics.

How much easier should birth control be to get?

There are title X clinics all over the nation
Health departments hand out condoms for free
Pharmacies carry spermicide, condoms and the morning after pill
Title X clinics will sometimes provide sterilization surgeries for little to no cost
Depo shot through title X or health insurance
IUD through title X and health insurance
Anal

Now that the individual mandate is in effect through the ACA everyone should have health insurance. So there is no excuse that people can not afford a trip to the doctors office for "some" kind of birth control.
 
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Texashiker, we've been through all this before, but just to be clear, you're opposed to all abortion at any time, regardless of extenuating circumstances like rape, correct? The fact that you keep claiming women are "responsible" for getting pregnant completely ignores the segment of women seeking abortion who are very obviously not responsible for their condition; rape victims. But you've said in the past that you believe these people should be forced to carry the child to term anyway; is that a fair summation of your position? If so, I really think you should stop talking about a woman's "responsibility" for her part in getting pregnant, as you aren't just opposed to irresponsible women seeking abortions, you're opposed to all women seeking abortions, and their responsibility for the act doesn't enter into it.
 
alzan said:
How many examples do you want of men being vindictive and lying to get their way?

Your interpretation of events and circumstances surrounding unwanted pregnancies is a joke, and a poor one.

Why not proactively decrease the chances of unwanted pregnancies? Wider availability of condoms, cervical caps and spermicide, mandatory comprehensive sex education starting in fourth grade, availability and mandatory distribution of Plan B/morning after pills at all pharmacies and by all pharmacists, etc.
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So Walmart, Target, Walgreens, CVS, convenience stores, etc does not meet your definition of widely available?
 
nehalem256 said:
Abortion != women's health any more than breast implants. It is an elective medical procedure. At least women with small breasts have the excuse they were born that way.
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Only a simpleton like you would think that the only thing that happens at a clinic that provides abortions are abortions. . .
 
Atomic Playboy said:
Texashiker, we've been through all this before, but just to be clear, you're opposed to all abortion at any time, regardless of extenuating circumstances like rape, correct?
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You sir are incorrect. Rape is outside of a womans control.

While I personally believe that except when the mothers life is at risk just about all abortion is wrong, I know my viewpoint is not feasible.

I am torn on the issue of forcing a woman who has been raped to carry a child. Then the child living with the knowledge that it is the product of a rape.

I wish society were not put in these situations where there is no correct choice. No matter which direction the mother goes, it could be the wrong path.

Last week the abandoned puppies I picked up killed one of my prized chickens. You try to do the right thing, try to save a puppies life, but some of your chickens are killed. No matter what path you take, something goes wrong.

Which is the less evil path, to kill an innocent child, or force an innocent mother to carry and give birth?

I wish I had the answers, but I do not.
 
Texashiker said:
You sir are incorrect. Rape is outside of a womans control.

Which is the less evil path, to kill an innocent child, or force an innocent mother to carry and give birth?
Click to expand...

These two sentences perfectly illustrate what pro-life people really want, which is to punish women for having sex. If you genuinely believe an abortion to be murder, why does if the woman had control over her pregnancy matter?

I mean, think of the manifest insanity of that argument. "It's okay to commit murder so long as it wasn't the woman's fault she was pregnant."
 
eskimospy said:
These two sentences perfectly illustrate what pro-life people really want, which is to punish women for having sex.
Click to expand...

That is not true. I wish you would stop repeating those lies.

If denying an abortion to women is punishment, then forcing a man to pay child support is punishment.

You liberals seem to confuse responsibility with punishment.



eskimospy said:
If you genuinely believe an abortion to be murder, why does if the woman had control over her pregnancy matter?
Click to expand...

English, do you speak it?
 
Texashiker said:
Lets be honest and open on your questions, because they are all good topics.

How much easier should birth control be to get?

There are title X clinics all over the nation
Health departments hand out condoms for free
Pharmacies carry spermicide, condoms and the morning after pill
Title X clinics will sometimes provide sterilization surgeries for little to no cost
Depo shot through title X or health insurance
IUD through title X and health insurance
Anal

Now that the individual mandate is in effect through the ACA everyone should have health insurance. So there is no excuse that people can not afford a trip to the doctors office for "some" kind of birth control.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I don't think that the ACA has an individual mandate.

Obviously birth control is still not easy enough to get since there are unwanted pregnancies. Maybe boys ages 10 on up should be encouraged to get vasectomies; when they're mature enough to accept the emotional, financial and societal responsibility of creating fetuses then the vasectomy can be reversed.

Now about the other points I suggested; mandatory, comprehensive sex education from fourth grade on up, mandatory availability of Plan B and morning after pills, etc.?

Texashiker said:
You sir are incorrect. Rape is outside of a womans control.

While I personally believe that except when the mothers life is at risk just about all abortion is wrong, I know my viewpoint is not feasible.

I am torn on the issue of forcing a woman who has been raped to carry a child. Then the child living with the knowledge that it is the product of a rape.

I wish society were not put in these situations where there is no correct choice. No matter which direction the mother goes, it could be the wrong path.

Last week the abandoned puppies I picked up killed one of my prized chickens. You try to do the right thing, try to save a puppies life, but some of your chickens are killed. No matter what path you take, something goes wrong.

Which is the less evil path, to kill an innocent child, or force an innocent mother to carry and give birth?

I wish I had the answers, but I do not.
Click to expand...

Legally, abortion is a protected right. If you feel abortion is wrong, don't get one.

The less evil path is obviously to abort a non-viable fetus.

Not only do you not have the answers, you whine and bitch about the answers we have.
 
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Texashiker said:
You sir are incorrect. Rape is outside of a womans control.

While I personally believe that except when the mothers life is at risk just about all abortion is wrong, I know my viewpoint is not feasible.

I am torn on the issue of forcing a woman who has been raped to carry a child. Then the child living with the knowledge that it is the product of a rape.

I wish society were not put in these situations where there is no correct choice. No matter which direction the mother goes, it could be the wrong path.
Click to expand...

You understand that shutting down ALL the abortion clinics means that women who have been raped won't have the opportunity to get the rape pregnancy aborted anymore, correct? Do you think it's reasonable to shut down all abortion clinics to limit the accessibility for women who get pregnant irresponsibly at the expense of rape victims now being required to carry pregnancies to term due to the lack of abortion providers?

No one wants to be put in these situations. No one wants to see people getting abortions anymore than we want to accept that there is still rape in our society. If there were a way to make all women infertile until they were ready to have children, that would be ideal (or some sort of technology that immediately severed a man's penis if he tried to commit a rape). But there isn't, so we have to deal with these uncomfortable realities as best we can.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
You understand that shutting down ALL the abortion clinics means that women who have been raped won't have the opportunity to get the rape pregnancy aborted anymore, correct? Do you think it's reasonable to shut down all abortion clinics to limit the accessibility for women who get pregnant irresponsibly at the expense of rape victims now being required to carry pregnancies to term due to the lack of abortion providers?
Click to expand...

Maybe liberals should stop using rape victims as hostages to support on demand abortions.

Maybe if liberals would just let Republicans ban rape in a straight forward manner they wouldn't be forced to do so in a way that also hurt the rape victims liberals claim to care about?
 
Everyone in this thread is missing the point.

The intent of the Mississippi law isn't to restrict abortions; that CANNOT be the real intent of the law, because that would make the law unconstitutional.

No, the Mississippi legislature has continually informed us that the intent of the law is to protect the health of pregnant women. Obviously, doctors at abortion clinics need to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals because it's completely clear that no hospital will admit a woman whose abortion leads to complications unless her primary physician has admitting privileges. How can anyone question that logic?

So any arguments that the expected result of this law - that the number of abortions will NOT go down, yet the number of woman who suffer serious medical complications and death will go up because their only viable option is to receive back-alley abortions - is "justice" for murder are totally illogical. Because, again, the purpose of the law is to protect the lives of pregnant women, NOT TO PREVENT ABORTIONS.

Does anyone see the rich irony in this? Mississippi insists it's trying to protect the lives and health of pregnant women, yet the law will surely kill pregnant women and damage their health.

Clearly, those principled Mississippi legislators will abandon this law once they see all of the damage it's causing to health. Because it's the health of pregnant women that's their paramount concern.
 
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