Minorities strike again

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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
AA is not quotas BBOND. Beleive me I work with them frequently... Yes, you have to show you're making an effort to hire and recruit minorities, but quotas can only be ordered by a Federal Judge after suit is brought for blatent demonsatrated discrimmination, and if that succeeds are you forced to hire ratios.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Until you address the indemic racism in American society you will keep getting the same results. You can't start helping kids when they reach college level. They have to be raised in an environment that nurtures them from birth. Racism and poverty are the root causes.

If you think Americans resist affirmative action you haven't seen anything yet. Just ask them to face their racism.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
AA is not quotas BBOND. Beleive me I work with them frequently... Yes, you have to show you're making an effort to hire and recruit minorities, but quotas can only be ordered by a Federal Judge after suit is brought for blatent demonsatrated discrimmination, and if that succeeds are you forced to hire ratios.

It sounds like AA is a precursor to quotas.
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: BBond
No one seems to remember when "affirmative action" meant all the work went to whites.

why don't you refresh our memories?

Why don't you pick up a book on American history and READ?

Even our "national past time" wasn't open to non-whites until 1947. WTFU. Stop denying the past. And stop excusing it.

1947 is so...... 58 years ago. No one is denying the past. However, some of us perfer to live for the future.

Yet some of you object to any action to make ammends for what happened in the past. And that is the only way you will be able to deal with the future.

You people object when a few contracts go to non-white companies yet without efforts by government to set aside a portion of that work non-white companies would STILL not receive contracts.

That's what you call living in the future???

That's living in the past.

When did anyone object to contracts going to minorities? I believe we talked about preferential treatment, not quite the same thing, isn't it?

And gimme a break with "amends" crap. If by amends you mean "reparations" - not going to happen. If you mean "aplogies" - enough have been said. You should learn to move on.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: BBond
No one seems to remember when "affirmative action" meant all the work went to whites.

why don't you refresh our memories?

Why don't you pick up a book on American history and READ?

Even our "national past time" wasn't open to non-whites until 1947. WTFU. Stop denying the past. And stop excusing it.

1947 is so...... 58 years ago. No one is denying the past. However, some of us perfer to live for the future.

Yet some of you object to any action to make ammends for what happened in the past. And that is the only way you will be able to deal with the future.

You people object when a few contracts go to non-white companies yet without efforts by government to set aside a portion of that work non-white companies would STILL not receive contracts.

That's what you call living in the future???

That's living in the past.

I don't object to taking action to ammend the bad things that happened in the past. But you don't do that by punishing people today who did not exist at the time those wrongs were perpetrated. You simply stop the bad thing that is happening and move on. What happened in the past is gone. Remember it so it doesn't happen again and just move on already. The best thing you can do to make ammends is just stop the wrong and start doing it right from now on. Not some "gee we're really sorry, here's a cookie for you" program like affirmative action. If the only way to make ammends is unfair to people who did not exist when the injustice was done, then it is better to just put it behind you and move on. People have this silly notion of entitlement. . .the world doesn't owe you anything. And unless I personally did something against you or borrowed something from you, then neither do I.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: irwincur
Sadly, Affirmative Action was never intended to be law, it was a strong suggestion. It was based on the concept that schools and businesses with government contracts were to recieve preferntial treatment if they impsoed hiring quotas on themselves. Today, we have people like Jesse Jackson extorting billions from companies with no ties to government under these same concepts. Funny thing is, legally they do not apply. However, he can threaten them, get what he wants (cash) and get typically unskilled people hired.

Look at the facts of Affirmative Action. It rarely benefits anyone on any side. Look at all of the black kids failing in the CA college system - are they now supposed to make classes easier for them, a curve based on color. Look at the free points that U of Mich. was rewarding simply for being of color - you would get 50% of your score for writing your name down. White students automatically started with deductions.

If you want to level the playing field, start at the bottom with education. We need to fix poor schools, move money where it is needed, and get rid of teachers unions. Furthermore school districts need to be run as businesses and schools need to account for performance. Children should be punished for skipping class, and failure should be punished with Summer school and when necessary repeating a grade UNTIL YOU GET IT.

All too often kids are slipping by because the 'we don't want to hurt their feelings' crowd is getting in the way. Time to get tough. We are raising a bunch or idiots that have little hope outside of the prison system.

Oh yeah, it is also time to tell parents and children that basketball and football are good past times, but they are not the 'ticket' out of the hood. Education is.

Good post.. Hey you see what happend to Schwarzty out in CA when he messed with teachers UNION? His Approval ratings dropped 20pts in one day!!! went from 60% to 40%.

That's "the children" part you don't mess with.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt

I don't object to taking action to ammend the bad things that happened in the past. But you don't do that by punishing people today who did not exist at the time those wrongs were perpetrated. You simply stop the bad thing that is happening and move on. What happened in the past is gone. Remember it so it doesn't happen again and just move on already. The best thing you can do to make ammends is just stop the wrong and start doing it right from now on. Not some "gee we're really sorry, here's a cookie for you" program like affirmative action. If the only way to make ammends is unfair to people who did not exist when the injustice was done, then it is better to just put it behind you and move on. People have this silly notion of entitlement. . .the world doesn't owe you anything. And unless I personally did something against you or borrowed something from you, then neither do I.

You have to do something to remdiate the wrongs of the past or you perpetuate them. The people who always got and still get the contracts have one hell of a head start after a few hundred years of their own form of "affirmative action". Don't you think?
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: AnyMal

When did anyone object to contracts going to minorities? I believe we talked about preferential treatment, not quite the same thing, isn't it?

And gimme a break with "amends" crap. If by amends you mean "reparations" - not going to happen. If you mean "aplogies" - enough have been said. You should learn to move on.

When did anyone object to contracts for minorities???

You've GOT to be kidding, right?
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
You have to do something to remdiate the wrongs of the past or you perpetuate them. The people who always got and still get the contracts have one hell of a head start after a few hundred years of their own form of "affirmative action". Don't you think?

You shouldn't help minorities by hurting the blameless majority. What you are talking about is retribution, and that is not a way to move ahead.
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: AnyMal

When did anyone object to contracts going to minorities? I believe we talked about preferential treatment, not quite the same thing, isn't it?

And gimme a break with "amends" crap. If by amends you mean "reparations" - not going to happen. If you mean "aplogies" - enough have been said. You should learn to move on.

When did anyone object to contracts for minorities???

You've GOT to be kidding, right?

No, but apparently you are.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: BBond
You have to do something to remdiate the wrongs of the past or you perpetuate them. The people who always got and still get the contracts have one hell of a head start after a few hundred years of their own form of "affirmative action". Don't you think?

You shouldn't help minorities by hurting the blameless majority. What you are talking about is retribution, and that is not a way to move ahead.

the blameless majority. you're as funny as the animal.
 

Chris A

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,431
1
76
A smart non minority will hire a minority to run the shop to get the fat contracts.. There are lots of companies that mandate that a percentage of their suppliers are minority run places. The owner of our place is also the partner in several minority run places.. He makes a killing doing that.
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
the blameless majority. you're as funny as the animal.

Well I try. When I start to run short on material I just picture 21st century white highschool students with whips in their hands...
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: BBond
You have to do something to remdiate the wrongs of the past or you perpetuate them. The people who always got and still get the contracts have one hell of a head start after a few hundred years of their own form of "affirmative action". Don't you think?

You shouldn't help minorities by hurting the blameless majority. What you are talking about is retribution, and that is not a way to move ahead.

the blameless majority. you're as funny as the animal.

BBond likes to argue for the sake of argument. Let him enjoy this little hobby.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
AA is simply government sponsored racism...its ridiculous.

I had a college professor who literally didn't show up to 30% of the lectures. On those days we would wait for 10 mins and then leave. Unfortunately, she was tenured, black, and female, and the university couldn't do anything. :thumbsdown:
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: zendari
AA is simply government sponsored racism...its ridiculous.

I had a college professor who literally didn't show up to 30% of the lectures. On those days we would wait for 10 mins and then leave. Unfortunately, she was tenured, black, and female, and the university couldn't do anything. :thumbsdown:

Well I guess that proves that all black female university professors are no damn good, right zendari?

Your apocryphal tales amount to zero. Especially when one considers the source.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
PS You don't even realize the inherent racism in your story, do you zendari?
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
0
0
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: classy
Why is it when all the filth crawl from under a rock on a subject like this, the implication is somehow the minority is either unskilled, unqualified, or undeserving?

Its usually because the filth is racist.


Rudeness abounds from the absurd... or is that Absurdities abound from the rude?

Homer, if the OP comment is correct then "5 year guarantee of funds and training to minorities to get them more of the contracts for state construction jobs" is what is being addressed. If true then it is those passing such racist laws that are saying minorities are not as capable.

The conservative parties (unfortunately not all conservatives) consider everyone equal.

g8wayrebel, You provided no link Why? Sorry, but making a statement is not proof that such a racist action has been taken. I did a quick couple of googles and did found nothing. Probably a bad search. I searched for "Illinois 5 year guarantee of funds and training" and "Illinois bid"
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
0
0
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: BBond
No one seems to remember when "affirmative action" meant all the work went to whites.

Or all the college degrees, all the wealth, or all the everything... :confused:

Liberals occupy a high percentage of teaching positions and boards. From the elementary level through graduate schools.

Given their stated attitudes on socialism and equal pay. How come the school caretakers (maintenance, grounds keeper, etc.) don't make as much money as the professors and board members? Shouldn't they be leading us by example to an "enlightened" state?

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: BBond
No one seems to remember when "affirmative action" meant all the work went to whites.

Or all the college degrees, all the wealth, or all the everything... :confused:

Liberals occupy a high percentage of teaching positions and boards. From the elementary level through graduate schools.

Given their stated attitudes on socialism and equal pay. How come the school caretakers (maintenance, grounds keeper, etc.) don't make as much money as the professors and board members? Shouldn't they be leading us by example to an "enlightened" state?

Do you have ANY data to back up your assertions?

Or should we just take your word for it?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: BBond
No one seems to remember when "affirmative action" meant all the work went to whites.

Or all the college degrees, all the wealth, or all the everything... :confused:

Liberals occupy a high percentage of teaching positions and boards. From the elementary level through graduate schools.

Given their stated attitudes on socialism and equal pay. How come the school caretakers (maintenance, grounds keeper, etc.) don't make as much money as the professors and board members? Shouldn't they be leading us by example to an "enlightened" state?

Do you have ANY data to back up your assertions?

Or should we just take your word for it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: zendari
AA is simply government sponsored racism...its ridiculous.

I had a college professor who literally didn't show up to 30% of the lectures. On those days we would wait for 10 mins and then leave. Unfortunately, she was tenured, black, and female, and the university couldn't do anything. :thumbsdown:

Well I guess that proves that all black female university professors are no damn good, right zendari?

Your apocryphal tales amount to zero. Especially when one considers the source.

Not at all. Dr. Rice is an example of a successful black female.

As for the "inherent" racism, no I don't see it. Care to point it out for me? I certainly wouldn't want to descend to yours or the governments level of approved racism against whites.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Liberals occupy a high percentage of teaching positions and boards. From the elementary level through graduate schools.

Given their stated attitudes on socialism and equal pay. How come the school caretakers (maintenance, grounds keeper, etc.) don't make as much money as the professors and board members? Shouldn't they be leading us by example to an "enlightened" state?

Do you have ANY data to back up your assertions?

Or should we just take your word for it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Hmmm.. response? No?
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I think the Pay for the Job should be compenserate to the training required for the job skill. It takes in most cases a Masters Degree to teach in a University. Department heads often have a Doctorate in their teaching discipline. These are standards even for a Community College.

I live in the St Louis Metro East area in Illinois.

When talking about contracts granted in the public sector for work to be paid for by the government locally, by the State, or by the Federal Government. Presecence is often given for Minority Owned cotractors and firms. The problem is many jobs are given to large construction companies that may even be from out of state. Often a preference is given to Union employers because of the Union Training and education programs for skilled construction labor, and the level of expertise you get from people who have completed a union run apprenticeship program. Working with Concrete and Asphalt and building structurally sound overpasses and bridges requires some skill and training.

The problem you might say is that not all construction companies have many African American Employees. So it is up to government entitees to require these companies to accept local Minorities into the various trades apprenticeship programs. Next time you go by a construction crew see how many minorities are laying cement and asphalt or as a carpenter, bricklayer or plumber or even an electrician. Some places may have minorities in skilled labor positions and some may not. Having a Black guy holding up the caution sign is not skilled labor. I am talking about the people doing the real skilled labor like finishing the cement, welding wrought iron, or some other skilled job. Nothing wrong with the guys or gals that hold those signs, because their job is important too.

So often Minority contracors can be used in construction support jobs to help compensate for the lack of minorities in construction jobs. The only Femaly Instructor in IT at Washington University I have met is a Black Woman that runs a Minority IT Development firm in St Louis, MO. At least she is the only female I have met that teaches IT at Washington, University. She told me herself and her husband often do contracts for different government entities in the St Louis, MO Area. This is just an example of a Minority Firm but there are other minority firms here and there. However, they are fighting an up-hill battle against the Good-Ole-Boy contracting network.

Even after all this is said, I dont agree with the kind of stunt these people pulled in St Louis. They should have just pushed their cars off the bridge and brought on the fire hoses and billy clubs. If you break the law you should have to go to jail, not get bond the next day. They should have held them all for the full 72 hours allowed by law and given them all at least an immediate 30 day jail sentence for disturbing the peace.

St Louis is a wonderful place because the city is just about as corrupt as Chicago. During one election two African Americans were running for office and they argued about who was the real black candidate and who was the white man in disguise. Kind of odd to make a statement like "You are just not black enought to be mayor." All this has happened in St Louis, MO. You gotta love it.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Liberals occupy a high percentage of teaching positions and boards. From the elementary level through graduate schools.

Given their stated attitudes on socialism and equal pay. How come the school caretakers (maintenance, grounds keeper, etc.) don't make as much money as the professors and board members? Shouldn't they be leading us by example to an "enlightened" state?

Do you have ANY data to back up your assertions?

Or should we just take your word for it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Hmmm.. response? No?

You said professors and boards. That's professors. Where are the liberal boards?

And do you really believe professors determine pay scale for university employees?

Also, at several institutions of higher education liberal professors and students have supported workers in contract demands.

Yale for one.