Minorities strike again

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Tommunist
would it not make more sense to base affirmative action on social status? it seems that affirmative action is working on the assumption that most minorities need help b/c they are at a disadvantage socially. it seems fair to say that some non-minorities have this same disadvantage (and that some minorities do not have the disadvantage) so why not actually target people that need help?

By social status you mean income?

That would be fine. Far better than whiners complaining about slavery in the 1800s.

Perhaps these people should stop speaking in ebonics, ala

?That niga' be a Mack Daddy,? Tyrome exclaimed. ?Yeah, but all the hood rats be sweatin' and playa' hatin' his abilities,? said Buck-wheat. ?Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.?

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i wouldn't go as far as to call anyone a "whiner" about slavery but i think basing this sort of thing on economic background is more true to the goal of affirmative action. people should be viewed on a case by case basis on the traits that actually matter. just b/c someone is <insert minority here> does not automatically mean they are at a disadvantage.

 

[PlatinumGold]

when discussing the issue of minorities, it is really difficult to leave out the victim mentality you see among Blacks and American Indians. i know i'll get flamed for this but fvck it.

were blacks and american indians mistreated in our past, YES. should we have policies in place to try and make up for some of those things? perhaps.

the problem it seems to me is, the existence of the policies reinforces the victim mentality. i know too many successful black people to believe that without some effort and yes, perhaps more effort than a similarly skilled white person would have had to extend, black people can be successful. that is a fact. it's not my imagination, it's not fantasy, it is a fact. there are many many successful black people (and i'm not talking athletes and entertainers) in the US.

 

[g8wayrebel]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
when discussing the issue of minorities, it is really difficult to leave out the victim mentality you see among Blacks and American Indians. i know i'll get flamed for this but fvck it.

were blacks and american indians mistreated in our past, YES. should we have policies in place to try and make up for some of those things? perhaps.

the problem it seems to me is, the existence of the policies reinforces the victim mentality. i know too many successful black people to believe that without some effort and yes, perhaps more effort than a similarly skilled white person would have had to extend, black people can be successful. that is a fact. it's not my imagination, it's not fantasy, it is a fact. there are many many successful black people (and i'm not talking athletes and entertainers) in the US.

Exactly! It may not be right , but that is exactly what I have been saying. The effort can and must come from within. The perception has to change for the idea to change. Success comes from personal effort and a little bit of good fortune. I know many successful black people. They are aware of the "extra efforts" that were necessary in order to rise above the perception , but have done so with dignity and pride. Even though they still face inequities daily(including openly voiced resentment from other black people) ,they strive to teach others that succes can still be had in the face of it. They educate and support others to motivate them rather than drag them along. There is a grand difference between sharing in someones success and achieving successs.No greater self respect can be had than success in the face a of adversity. In turn , that person also gains the respect of others. That is the manner in which the black people can defeat this issue. It isn't easy or fast , but it is the only way to succeed in it. The most important point in this is that they need to support each other and enforce social values within the communities rather than turn a blind eye to what goes on all around them.

 

[beyoku]

You can talk a lot of good stuff about what we can do. Bill Cosby already gave his speech. Who is the other person from the other side that is going to critisize the other group from within? How can you just dismiss a study like the one that basically stated that a white man with a felony still has an advantage over a black person with no criminal record? This is a study done with duplacate and identical requirments....WHO is going to call this for what it is? THis is happening NOW in 2005! Black people who try to do for themselves DO have work twice as hard....RACE is the apparently the first and formost indicater on if your getting the job. EVEN over a FELONYas the study states. I mean would the white person have to be an ILLITERATE FELON to "Even the scale"? How can you justify and just dismiss as strike that big? What would make YOU hire a FELON over a NON FELON if they both had the same qualifications?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: beyoku
You can talk a lot of good stuff about what we can do. Bill Cosby already gave his speech. Who is the other person from the other side that is going to critisize the other group from within? How can you just dismiss a study like the one that basically stated that a white man with a felony still has an advantage over a black person with no criminal record? This is a study done with duplacate and identical requirments....WHO is going to call this for what it is? THis is happening NOW in 2005! Black people who try to do for themselves DO have work twice as hard....RACE is the apparently the first and formost indicater on if your getting the job. EVEN over a FELONYas the study states. I mean would the white person have to be an ILLITERATE FELON to "Even the scale"? How can you justify and just dismiss as strike that big? What would make YOU hire a FELON over a NON FELON if they both had the same qualifications?

What about us asians. we have to work harder to get to the same place as whites. why do you never hear or see blacks standing up for asian minorities?

whats good for the goose is good for all geese and ganders or it isn't good for any of them.

 

[zendari]

Because Asians study hard and do well in school.

 

[NeenerNeener]

Originally posted by: zendari
Because Asians study hard and do well in school.

Uh. How many do you know?

and they all know calculus!!! Please. Listen to Margaret Cho. I think she already covered these stereotypes in a comedy routine.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: beyoku
You can talk a lot of good stuff about what we can do. Bill Cosby already gave his speech. Who is the other person from the other side that is going to critisize the other group from within? How can you just dismiss a study like the one that basically stated that a white man with a felony still has an advantage over a black person with no criminal record? This is a study done with duplacate and identical requirments....WHO is going to call this for what it is? THis is happening NOW in 2005! Black people who try to do for themselves DO have work twice as hard....RACE is the apparently the first and formost indicater on if your getting the job. EVEN over a FELONYas the study states. I mean would the white person have to be an ILLITERATE FELON to "Even the scale"? How can you justify and just dismiss as strike that big? What would make YOU hire a FELON over a NON FELON if they both had the same qualifications?

What about us asians. we have to work harder to get to the same place as whites. why do you never hear or see blacks standing up for asian minorities?

whats good for the goose is good for all geese and ganders or it isn't good for any of them.

I dont know what kind of hardships that asians have as comparied to other minorities. I really cant comment. One thing a do know black people are at the bottom of the boat, and like Zendari shows: Stereotypes are part of the deal. Asians have "positive" stereotypes (No on wants to be labeled at all BUT, at least your good in math, otoh i am a felon and a car thief??) while african americans have negative stereotypes. Sure we can TRY to change what people think of us the same way the The Isrealis can TRY to change the way they are viewed by the Palestinians - and the reverse.

Again who can condeme the study that points at todays hiring practices, what would make any of YOU guys hire a FELON over a NON FELON when they both have the same qualifications?

 

[zendari]

Stereotypes which have some basis in truth. Look at the number of Asians and Indians in top colleges and Ivy League schools.

My high school was 20% asian, most of which were in the top 10% and the top 5% was almost exclusively asian. Coincidence?

As far as your question goes, perhaps the way they speak, act, and conduct themselves? Stuff that doesn't show up on a resume?

 

[g8wayrebel]

I feel badly for the decent black people who suffer the stereotype , but as I have said before , they must change the community in order to gain the respect of others. As it is now , they turn a blind eye to a tremendous amount of illegal activity in their neighborhood if not in their own home.The numbers have to be reduced dramatically to change the perception of the race as a whole. I can't tell you it is right , or that any group should have to be singled out as the bottom rung , but that is the way it is and only they can change it. It is a given that no one will make willing concessions , so the person who has the gains to be made must make the necessary efforts. Speaking english under 80 decibels would be a good start. How about dressing like they actually bought clothes to fit. How about producing art without an attitude. The more pronounced the attitude , the more it is resented. It is they who do not subscribe to the ways of society. I believe this has been an active choice for many years. That must change. I personally am highly impressed when I speak with a black person and can't tell they are black. I would actually be willing to say that they get better treatment from me in that case than others(whites, asians.etc) would in the same situation just because I appreciate the efforts that have to be made on their part.