Minimum Wage Increasing Again

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I moved 2000 miles also to avoid the same thing. It sucked but if I wanted guaranteed employment I would have become a doctor. I didn't want to, so I played what I was dealt.

And ended up in Alabama. Growing up in Canada did you ever imagined yourself living there?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I moved 2000 miles also to avoid the same thing. It sucked but if I wanted guaranteed employment I would have become a doctor. I didn't want to, so I played what I was dealt.

And ended up in Alabama. Growing up in Canada did you ever imagined yourself living there?

It was my dream from day one.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

A family can almost certainly live on $10.00 an hour. Although the living conditions are certainly not going to be ideal, that is enough to make ends meet.

If two parents are earning a $10.00 minimum wage hourly, that is more than enough to feed a family.

You have got to be kidding me. Between rent/mortgage, power, water, sewer, food, transportation, insurance, gas, phone, etc, etc a $10/hour salary isn't going to cut it. Worse yet you said 'parents' so add in child care while the parents are working. Good luck with that.

Yep. They may be ablt to feed and house themselves, but childcare will take enough out that there will be minimal personal or education savings made.

:roll: I and my family(wife and 1 kid at the time) survived on less than that. Sure, we didn't have Cable, cell phones, or nice cars - but we had enough to survive long enough for us to figure out we needed to go to where the opportunity was.

Sorry but I gotta call shens on making $10/hr and supporting a family today. I'm not talking about making $10/hr + additional support from the gov't or mooching off friends/family for housing, food, baby sitting, etc. I mean you pay your own mortgage/rent, food, car, gas, maintenance/repairs, gas, insurance, day care, medical, power, water, garbage, sewage, etc, etc on $10/hr. Don't see it happening.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

A family can almost certainly live on $10.00 an hour. Although the living conditions are certainly not going to be ideal, that is enough to make ends meet.

If two parents are earning a $10.00 minimum wage hourly, that is more than enough to feed a family.

You have got to be kidding me. Between rent/mortgage, power, water, sewer, food, transportation, insurance, gas, phone, etc, etc a $10/hour salary isn't going to cut it. Worse yet you said 'parents' so add in child care while the parents are working. Good luck with that.

Yep. They may be ablt to feed and house themselves, but childcare will take enough out that there will be minimal personal or education savings made.

:roll: I and my family(wife and 1 kid at the time) survived on less than that. Sure, we didn't have Cable, cell phones, or nice cars - but we had enough to survive long enough for us to figure out we needed to go to where the opportunity was.

Sorry but I gotta call shens on making $10/hr and supporting a family today. I'm not talking about making $10/hr + additional support from the gov't or mooching off friends/family for housing, food, baby sitting, etc. I mean you pay your own mortgage/rent, food, car, gas, maintenance/repairs, gas, insurance, day care, medical, power, water, garbage, sewage, etc, etc on $10/hr. Don't see it happening.

Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

That magic starts with an e and rhymes with shedumacation.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

That magic starts with an e and rhymes with shedumacation.

Try again.

In my economy thread there is a recent article showing that many will never be able to pay off their college loans with the environment America has sunk to.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

That magic starts with an e and rhymes with shedumacation.

Try again.

In my economy thread there is a recent article showing that many will never be able to pay off their college loans with the environment America has sunk to.

What kind of loans were they taking. What kind of degree did they get. And what kind of job are they qualified for?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

That magic starts with an e and rhymes with shedumacation.

Try again.

In my economy thread there is a recent article showing that many will never be able to pay off their college loans with the environment America has sunk to.

What kind of loans were they taking. What kind of degree did they get. And what kind of job are they qualified for?

Liberal Arts. They spent all day drinking and getting laid and didn't learn anything.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

That magic starts with an e and rhymes with shedumacation.

Try again.

In my economy thread there is a recent article showing that many will never be able to pay off their college loans with the environment America has sunk to.

Let me guess, the solution is to make college free for everyone?

Do you realize that the reason people with college degrees can't find jobs is because everybody has one. It's just education inflation. The dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be and neither is a college degree because there are way too many of them out there. People need to evaluate college and determine if the cost of the degree will pay off in terms of employment. If not, they need to find something else to do. It's like everything else in life, people need to learn how to do cost/benefit analyses.

Colleges used to be an institution of higher education but liberal policies that treat every moron like they're a beautiful snowflake who deserves to go to college have turned them into job mills.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

A family can almost certainly live on $10.00 an hour. Although the living conditions are certainly not going to be ideal, that is enough to make ends meet.

If two parents are earning a $10.00 minimum wage hourly, that is more than enough to feed a family.

You have got to be kidding me. Between rent/mortgage, power, water, sewer, food, transportation, insurance, gas, phone, etc, etc a $10/hour salary isn't going to cut it. Worse yet you said 'parents' so add in child care while the parents are working. Good luck with that.

Yep. They may be ablt to feed and house themselves, but childcare will take enough out that there will be minimal personal or education savings made.

:roll: I and my family(wife and 1 kid at the time) survived on less than that. Sure, we didn't have Cable, cell phones, or nice cars - but we had enough to survive long enough for us to figure out we needed to go to where the opportunity was.

Sorry but I gotta call shens on making $10/hr and supporting a family today. I'm not talking about making $10/hr + additional support from the gov't or mooching off friends/family for housing, food, baby sitting, etc. I mean you pay your own mortgage/rent, food, car, gas, maintenance/repairs, gas, insurance, day care, medical, power, water, garbage, sewage, etc, etc on $10/hr. Don't see it happening.

I could easily do it again, even with 3 kids if I moved back to where I once was. I don't want to - thus I haven't but it can be done. Living in small town America where you can buy a house for ~50-60K and working in that same town doesn't cost much. I was back in that town not long ago and the place I was renting is about the same price it was before and it's still only a couple blocks from the place I worked(for way less than $10/hr). So while I would agree that you couldn't do it everywhere - it can and is being done in many places around the country.

 

[Slew Foot]

10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

You can EASILY find rent for less than 1k/month in many locations around the US.
$300 on utilities? DROP THE CABLE.
$400 on food? STOP GOING OUT! That's an insane amount that could be cut easily unless you have 7 kids.
$500 on two cars? WTF? Get a beater. You don't need to be driving around in new cars.

You can easily cut that way down.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'd just like to say that I believe minimium wage should be $50/h. Then everybody will be rich and can afford homes, that would help the economy in this housing crunch. Nobody would be in poverty and 14 year old boys can work at McDonalds scrubbing toilets and raise his family of 10.

There is plenty of good to go around. Corporations have it too nice, they don't pay enough taxes as is, so they should pay atleast $50/h for wage.

Once again the right offers not anything sensible but idiocy for the discussion.

Unable to understand why a *minimum wage* that has some balance makes sense, they throw out sarcastic calls - why not makke it a billion fo everyone?

Since $8 or $10/hour and a billlion for everyone are equally sensible? Nice contribution to the discussion.

Actually, it reflects the utter lack of any sensible view, an ignorance of the massive research done into what makes sense and is practical.

It's basically like a brain-damaged guy with a beer in his armchair yellling inocherent nonsense, not a discussin.

But it probably makes him feel better as he thinks he just 'proved' that since $50/hour isn't practical, he won the argument against the minimum wage.

It really raises the question what you do about voters who are so incompetetent as citizns, lacking values, information, and a variety of other attributes as citizens.

Why would you waste the time with a real response to such a person, who is the equivalent of someone who says 'you want a 55 mph speed limit? Fine make it a 1 MPH speed limit!'

You could sit there all day discussing the issues of 55 versus 65 versus 70 and the fuel consumption, safety issue, time lost and other facts, but you're talking to a loudmouth.

I'll wholeheartedly agree that there are some pretty ridiculous arguments against minimum wage. The fact is it has a very minimal effect on inflation or the unemployment rate if it's incremental.

However, I still haven't seen a convincing argument FOR minimum wage. People claim that it helps out poor households but it does a terrible job doing so because most people making minimum wage aren't in a household at or below the poverty line. If you want to supplement the incomes of the poor, there is already a program for that: the EITC. That specifically targets poor households and does it much more efficiently than a minimum wage. If you want to help the poor, argue for an increase in the EITC. It makes no sense to argue for an increase in the minimum wage on grounds that it helps the poor when you can help the poor much more efficiently with other government programs.

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

???

What, do you live in Manhattan or San Francisco or something? There are plenty of areas in this country where you wouldn't be spending near the figures you threw out. I'm not talking about bumblefuck nowhere either.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Elitist's have some sort of magic you and I can't see.

That magic starts with an e and rhymes with shedumacation.

Try again.

In my economy thread there is a recent article showing that many will never be able to pay off their college loans with the environment America has sunk to.

Let me guess, the solution is to make college free for everyone?

Do you realize that the reason people with college degrees can't find jobs is because everybody has one. It's just education inflation. The dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be and neither is a college degree because there are way too many of them out there. People need to evaluate college and determine if the cost of the degree will pay off in terms of employment. If not, they need to find something else to do. It's like everything else in life, people need to learn how to do cost/benefit analyses.

Colleges used to be an institution of higher education but liberal policies that treat every moron like they're a beautiful snowflake who deserves to go to college have turned them into job mills.

I see a lot of bullshit but no answers. :roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

You can EASILY find rent for less than 1k/month in many locations around the US.

$300 on utilities? DROP THE CABLE.
$400 on food? STOP GOING OUT! That's an insane amount that could be cut easily unless you have 7 kids.
$500 on two cars? WTF? Get a beater. You don't need to be driving around in new cars.

You can easily cut that way down.

So your answer is everyone abandon the expensive locations in America?

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

You can EASILY find rent for less than 1k/month in many locations around the US.

$300 on utilities? DROP THE CABLE.
$400 on food? STOP GOING OUT! That's an insane amount that could be cut easily unless you have 7 kids.
$500 on two cars? WTF? Get a beater. You don't need to be driving around in new cars.

You can easily cut that way down.

So your answer is everyone abandon the expensive locations in America?

Yes, if you can't afford to live there.

 

[Toastedlightly]

So... to all of those who claim it is not possible to sustain on 10 an hour, I disagree.

I live in the northern suberbs of St. Paul, MN. In 2007, my family went through hard times. We had no savings leading up to this. My parents earned a total of 33,000 dollars combined (my father was laid off and had trouble finding work). This was used to support themselves and three children. This averages out to ~15/hr working 40 hour weeks. It is not impossible for a family to survive.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
So... to all of those who claim it is not possible to sustain on 10 an hour, I disagree.

I live in the northern suberbs of St. Paul, MN. In 2007, my family went through hard times. We had no savings leading up to this. My parents earned a total of 33,000 dollars combined (my father was laid off and had trouble finding work). This was used to support themselves and three children. This averages out to ~15/hr working 40 hour weeks. It is not impossible for a family to survive.

That's 50% more than $10/hr. Why not just say it's easy to live on $10/hr because you did it on $300K/yr.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
So... to all of those who claim it is not possible to sustain on 10 an hour, I disagree.

I live in the northern suberbs of St. Paul, MN. In 2007, my family went through hard times. We had no savings leading up to this. My parents earned a total of 33,000 dollars combined (my father was laid off and had trouble finding work). This was used to support themselves and three children. This averages out to ~15/hr working 40 hour weeks. It is not impossible for a family to survive.

That's 50% more than $10/hr. Why not just say it's easy to live on $10/hr because you did it on $300K/yr.

That was one parent working, supporting a family of 5 (well, 2 permanant residents, me over the summer and my brother returning from the Navy for the other half). The point is that living on a lower income isn't impossible, it jsut takes sacrifices. Not having a newer car (ours all have over 150k miles), learning new skills to cope with problems (mechanic, HVAC, all sorts), and just being a penny pincher.

 

[Wreckem]

You know, as a high school dropout the only time I ever made minimum wage was when I worked as a student assistant on a university campus. Even then I swung that into a full time staff position.

If you cannot make more than minimum wage and are not a student.

You are lazy or you should move.

I know Dave commented on people not being able to pay off student loans.

The problem is work ethic. The majority of people under 30 dont have it. Ive seen it first hand over and over.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

You can EASILY find rent for less than 1k/month in many locations around the US.

$300 on utilities? DROP THE CABLE.
$400 on food? STOP GOING OUT! That's an insane amount that could be cut easily unless you have 7 kids.
$500 on two cars? WTF? Get a beater. You don't need to be driving around in new cars.

You can easily cut that way down.

So your answer is everyone abandon the expensive locations in America?

Yes, if you can't afford to live there.

Good, I've said this before.

Then all the low rungs should leave and let the rich elitist's try and fend for themselves.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
10/hr x40 hrs x 2 people= 800/wk or about 3400/mo.

I suppose if you lived in bumblefuck where rent/housing wasnt 1-2K per month you could do it.

Let's say 700 mo on housing, 300 on utilities, 400 on food, 500 on two cars, 250 maintenence/gas/insurance.

Yeah, I suppose you could do it, not exactly living like Kings or taking fancy vacations or anything, but you could do it.

You can EASILY find rent for less than 1k/month in many locations around the US.

$300 on utilities? DROP THE CABLE.
$400 on food? STOP GOING OUT! That's an insane amount that could be cut easily unless you have 7 kids.
$500 on two cars? WTF? Get a beater. You don't need to be driving around in new cars.

You can easily cut that way down.

So your answer is everyone abandon the expensive locations in America?

Yes, if you can't afford to live there.

Lot better answer: the growth the workers of the country create is shared a little instead of all going to the top, and you don't have to make people live like paupers.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

According to income data it's more like 20-30%. Well, actually it's 16% in the service industry, but it's 20-30% that earn a total of what equates to minimum wage. Again, they may earn more but only work part time, then again, many people work two minimum wage jobs and therefore appear over the income. It all balances. 1/4 of America makes minimum wage.

According the article in the OP only 2 million Americans will get a raise due to the minimum wage increase. I'd really like to see where you're getting this "1/4 of America makes minimum wage".

After rereading his previous responses I think he is confusing wages earned with min wage earned. For instance I could work for 1 hour at 12,000 bucks an hour and still be considered working min wage in his world because my total yearly income is 12K.

A lot of people who earn 12-16K a year are most likely part time workers who earn above the min wage but dont work 32-40 hour weeks.

I wasn't confused, i clearly made allowances for it by reminding people that MANY minimum wage employees hold more than one job. This raises their income above what would be expected for minimum wage employees, roughly making up for those who work part time with pay rates above minimum.

Go find the minimum wage information and stop using household income data to back up your claims. 1.7% of workers work for min wage. Of those 60% work in the food services industry. Thus they are working for tips. So 40% of 1.7% are actually working for min wage. I bet a good % of those are kids working jobs after school for extra cash.

You are mixing apples and oranges.

Those numbers are meaningless without thresholds and additional information. What do they define as minimum wage? Federal minimum, state minimum, exactly minimum, within $1/hr of minimum, etc. If you just blindly accept the numbers then you're an idiot. Give me enough information to decide if what they're spoon feeding you is rational. In my experience, and based on other types of data available, I'm claiming it's a load of crap.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I wonder how many adults actually are on minimum. I can see a highschool student doing it and they shouldn't have any minimum since they spend the money on crap but if you're an adult on minimum wage something is seriously wrong with you.

I almost wonder if minimum wage shouldn't apply to people under 21 or something because chances are low they are doing anything much with it.

It's not the worker who has the problem, it's the companies that only offer jobs at that level. So long as companies are increasing the number of low paying jobs, while decreasing the number of high paying jobs, more and more people will be required to make less than one would expect for their ability and experience.

Personal case in point: after completing his masters degree (with two bachelors, honors in all), a friend worked fast food for 14 months before finding a teaching position due to a glut of teachers in his fields in his area. He ended up having to take a position 2000 miles away just to be working in his field. This is common, and growing moreso.

That's just lack of planning imho. Just because one finishes school does not mean they are suddenly greeted at the corporate door down the street. It sounds like your friend could have had a job a lot sooner had he/she been willing to move instead of working fast food for 14 months before realizing 'crap maybe i should move.'

I find that attitude ridiculous. Home is important and meaningful, jobs are not. Why should someone exceptionally qualified be forced to move across the country to find work? That's just stupid.

Ignoring that, it doesn't change the fact that MANY very intelligent, very qualified, very educated, very capable people end up working minimum wage, at least for a period of time. You cannot infer ability from job.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Personal case in point: after completing his masters degree (with two bachelors, honors in all), a friend worked fast food for 14 months before finding a teaching position due to a glut of teachers in his fields in his area. He ended up having to take a position 2000 miles away just to be working in his field. This is common, and growing moreso.

Your friend picked the wrong field. I know guys with university degrees my age teaching English in Japan and getting hammered five times/week. Who's fault is that? This is like, what's better a degree in engineering or english lit?

Which shows that all the people saying jobs will be lost, people will have to close their business, etc... are just BS.

Yes, in reality it hardly matters either way because so few people are on it.

It sounds like your friend could have had a job a lot sooner had he/she been willing to move instead of working fast food for 14 months before realizing 'crap maybe i should move.'

Probably. A neighbor of mine went to school and amassed $25k in a specialty education over 9 months and was unwilling to move, so never got a job, and had to completely pay it back doing lower wage jobs and then jumped fields. On the other hand I moved 2000 miles also to avoid the same thing. It sucked but if I wanted guaranteed employment I would have become a doctor. I didn't want to, so I played what I was dealt.

You're completely missing the point, which was that there are brilliant, capable, educated people out there who work minimum wage sometimes. You cannot infer ability from a job.