Minimum Wage Increasing Again

[JD50]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
I've yet to meet anyone who makes minimum wage.

Never been to a store? Never been to a restaurant? Never seen an office temp? Even called customer service?

Then you've met people who make minimum wage.

I've been to a store - staffed by either high schoolers or high school drop outs

I've been to a restaurant - who makes more than minimum wage at a restaurant besides the dishwasher?

I don't recall if I've seen an office temp, but why would you be an office temp for more than a year or two?

I've called customer service, I have no idea who these people are so I can't really comment here.


Obviously this is all highly anecdotal, so YMMV.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

What other option do most working class families have?

It's easy to say that you shouldn't raise a kid on such a wage, but it's another thing in practice.

People need to make due with what they have.

For many families, it is the best they can do.

Which is why a minimum wage should be a livable wage... and as of right now, it isn't anything close. Minimum wage has failed to keep up with inflation.

Ummm....most working class families do not work for minimum wage, I doubt any of them do. Right now, it seems like you're just making a lot of stuff up as you go, would you mind providing some stats backing up your claims? From quickly reading through the thread, it looks like 2 million Americans are making minimum wage right now. I'd venture to guess that the majority of those are high school kids, or incredibly stupid people that don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

I'm sorry, but if you can't get promoted from fries to the register (thats how I got above minimum wage when I was 15), you don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

With all respect, $1/hr more than minimum wage is still minimum wage. A few pennies won't make any difference in the long run.

You're right, but it's all a stepping stone.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
I've yet to meet anyone who makes minimum wage.

Never been to a store? Never been to a restaurant? Never seen an office temp? Even called customer service?

Then you've met people who make minimum wage.

I've been to a store - staffed by either high schoolers or high school drop outs

I've been to a restaurant - who makes more than minimum wage at a restaurant besides the dishwasher?

I don't recall if I've seen an office temp, but why would you be an office temp for more than a year or two?

I've called customer service, I have no idea who these people are so I can't really comment here.


Obviously this is all highly anecdotal, so YMMV.

The point is, everyone has met someone who makes minimum wage.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

What other option do most working class families have?

It's easy to say that you shouldn't raise a kid on such a wage, but it's another thing in practice.

People need to make due with what they have.

For many families, it is the best they can do.

Which is why a minimum wage should be a livable wage... and as of right now, it isn't anything close. Minimum wage has failed to keep up with inflation.

Ummm....most working class families do not work for minimum wage, I doubt any of them do. Right now, it seems like you're just making a lot of stuff up as you go, would you mind providing some stats backing up your claims? From quickly reading through the thread, it looks like 2 million Americans are making minimum wage right now. I'd venture to guess that the majority of those are high school kids, or incredibly stupid people that don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

I'm sorry, but if you can't get promoted from fries to the register (thats how I got above minimum wage when I was 15), you don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

With all respect, $1/hr more than minimum wage is still minimum wage. A few pennies won't make any difference in the long run.

You're right, but it's all a stepping stone.

But we're not talking about stepping stones, or how things will be...we're discussing how things are.

Example:

Imagine a fast food restaurant with 25-30 employees (normal around here). 1 makes 26-36k/yr (the RM). About 4 make 20-26k/yr (the hourly managers and maybe a maintenance guy or specialist). 20-25 make (or at least started) at minimum wage. With average raises of .25/hr/year those people will basically always be minimum wage (once you account for turnover). In other words, 80% of the people who work in a fast food restaurant earn minimum wage.

The same is true in most retail/service industry jobs. While a few people make well over minimum, and many make barely over minimum, most make minimum. Welcome to America.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

What other option do most working class families have?

It's easy to say that you shouldn't raise a kid on such a wage, but it's another thing in practice.

People need to make due with what they have.

For many families, it is the best they can do.

Which is why a minimum wage should be a livable wage... and as of right now, it isn't anything close. Minimum wage has failed to keep up with inflation.

Ummm....most working class families do not work for minimum wage, I doubt any of them do. Right now, it seems like you're just making a lot of stuff up as you go, would you mind providing some stats backing up your claims? From quickly reading through the thread, it looks like 2 million Americans are making minimum wage right now. I'd venture to guess that the majority of those are high school kids, or incredibly stupid people that don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

I'm sorry, but if you can't get promoted from fries to the register (thats how I got above minimum wage when I was 15), you don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

With all respect, $1/hr more than minimum wage is still minimum wage. A few pennies won't make any difference in the long run.

You're right, but it's all a stepping stone.

But we're not talking about stepping stones, or how things will be...we're discussing how things are.

Example:

Imagine a fast food restaurant with 25-30 employees (normal around here). 1 makes 26-36k/yr (the RM). About 4 make 20-26k/yr (the hourly managers and maybe a maintenance guy or specialist). 20-25 make (or at least started) at minimum wage. With average raises of .25/hr/year those people will basically always be minimum wage (once you account for turnover). In other words, 80% of the people who work in a fast food restaurant earn minimum wage.

The same is true in most retail/service industry jobs. While a few people make well over minimum, and many make barely over minimum, most make minimum. Welcome to America.

Those people generally are young and not the primary breadwinner for their household.

 

[Budmantom]

Johnny I have good news and bad, the good news is the minimum wage went up it's $6.55 the bad news is your fired.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

But we're not talking about stepping stones, or how things will be...we're discussing how things are.

Example:

Imagine a fast food restaurant with 25-30 employees (normal around here). 1 makes 26-36k/yr (the RM). About 4 make 20-26k/yr (the hourly managers and maybe a maintenance guy or specialist). 20-25 make (or at least started) at minimum wage. With average raises of .25/hr/year those people will basically always be minimum wage (once you account for turnover). In other words, 80% of the people who work in a fast food restaurant earn minimum wage.

The same is true in most retail/service industry jobs. While a few people make well over minimum, and many make barely over minimum, most make minimum. Welcome to America.

I'm perfectly fine with that. No one should be making a career out of being the cook at McDonalds. Those jobs are for no skill entry level workers. I worked at McDonalds and then several retail jobs from the age of 14 to 20, I never once met a person that was making at or around minimum wage that had been doing that job for more than a year or two. Even when I worked at Hecht's, the people that had been there for more than a few years worked their way into the commissioned sales departments, where they made well above minimum wage.

Again, this is just my experience, and there probably are some people out there that spend their whole life making at or near minimum wage, but that is their fault.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ
I know what is a good idea!

How about capping the minimum wage at $3.50 so that corporations don't have to raise prices? We all know that with that low of a minimum wage, corporations will never raise prices. In fact, prices will go down! :disgust:

$6.55 isn't a livable wage for those who have families to feed. In the 1960s, adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage was the equivalent of what would be $10 dollars today. Families could live on the minimum wage back then. Not so today.

Since the 80s, the minimum wage has been raised at an pace so infrequent that we haven't seen anything like it for decades. Another great accomplishment of the Ronald Ray Gun administration. :roll:

No one should be trying to raise a family on minimum wage. No one that has been in the workforce for more than a year should still be making minimum wage. Who are these retards that spend their whole career making minimum wage?

The people that work for corporations, who will only pay minimum wage except to a few. Manufacturing, high tech, industry...all being offshored. This leaves only minimum wage service industry jobs for a large number of Americans.

If by large number, you mean about 2%,, then yes i guess it is a large number. And a large chunk of those 2% are just inexperienced young workers.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

But we're not talking about stepping stones, or how things will be...we're discussing how things are.

Example:

Imagine a fast food restaurant with 25-30 employees (normal around here). 1 makes 26-36k/yr (the RM). About 4 make 20-26k/yr (the hourly managers and maybe a maintenance guy or specialist). 20-25 make (or at least started) at minimum wage. With average raises of .25/hr/year those people will basically always be minimum wage (once you account for turnover). In other words, 80% of the people who work in a fast food restaurant earn minimum wage.

The same is true in most retail/service industry jobs. While a few people make well over minimum, and many make barely over minimum, most make minimum. Welcome to America.

Those people generally are young and not the primary breadwinner for their household.

Yep, this too.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

What other option do most working class families have?

It's easy to say that you shouldn't raise a kid on such a wage, but it's another thing in practice.

People need to make due with what they have.

For many families, it is the best they can do.

Which is why a minimum wage should be a livable wage... and as of right now, it isn't anything close. Minimum wage has failed to keep up with inflation.

Ummm....most working class families do not work for minimum wage, I doubt any of them do. Right now, it seems like you're just making a lot of stuff up as you go, would you mind providing some stats backing up your claims? From quickly reading through the thread, it looks like 2 million Americans are making minimum wage right now. I'd venture to guess that the majority of those are high school kids, or incredibly stupid people that don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

I'm sorry, but if you can't get promoted from fries to the register (thats how I got above minimum wage when I was 15), you don't deserve to make more than minimum wage.

With all respect, $1/hr more than minimum wage is still minimum wage. A few pennies won't make any difference in the long run.

You're right, but it's all a stepping stone.

But we're not talking about stepping stones, or how things will be...we're discussing how things are.

Example:

Imagine a fast food restaurant with 25-30 employees (normal around here). 1 makes 26-36k/yr (the RM). About 4 make 20-26k/yr (the hourly managers and maybe a maintenance guy or specialist). 20-25 make (or at least started) at minimum wage. With average raises of .25/hr/year those people will basically always be minimum wage (once you account for turnover). In other words, 80% of the people who work in a fast food restaurant earn minimum wage.

The same is true in most retail/service industry jobs. While a few people make well over minimum, and many make barely over minimum, most make minimum. Welcome to America.

Those people generally are young and not the primary breadwinner for their household.

At fast food, yes (though FAR less than it used to be), throughout the American service industry no they're not. You have only to look at income data to know that for a large number of Americans the primary breadwinner makes minimum wage...maybe at more than one job at a time, but they make minimum wage.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ
I know what is a good idea!

How about capping the minimum wage at $3.50 so that corporations don't have to raise prices? We all know that with that low of a minimum wage, corporations will never raise prices. In fact, prices will go down! :disgust:

$6.55 isn't a livable wage for those who have families to feed. In the 1960s, adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage was the equivalent of what would be $10 dollars today. Families could live on the minimum wage back then. Not so today.

Since the 80s, the minimum wage has been raised at an pace so infrequent that we haven't seen anything like it for decades. Another great accomplishment of the Ronald Ray Gun administration. :roll:

No one should be trying to raise a family on minimum wage. No one that has been in the workforce for more than a year should still be making minimum wage. Who are these retards that spend their whole career making minimum wage?

The people that work for corporations, who will only pay minimum wage except to a few. Manufacturing, high tech, industry...all being offshored. This leaves only minimum wage service industry jobs for a large number of Americans.

If by large number, you mean about 2%,, then yes i guess it is a large number. And a large chunk of those 2% are just inexperienced young workers.

According to income data it's more like 20-30%. Well, actually it's 16% in the service industry, but it's 20-30% that earn a total of what equates to minimum wage. Again, they may earn more but only work part time, then again, many people work two minimum wage jobs and therefore appear over the income. It all balances. 1/4 of America makes minimum wage.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

According to income data it's more like 20-30%. Well, actually it's 16% in the service industry, but it's 20-30% that earn a total of what equates to minimum wage. Again, they may earn more but only work part time, then again, many people work two minimum wage jobs and therefore appear over the income. It all balances. 1/4 of America makes minimum wage.

According the article in the OP only 2 million Americans will get a raise due to the minimum wage increase. I'd really like to see where you're getting this "1/4 of America makes minimum wage".

 

[Mavtek3100]

A family of 4 could easily live off of 1 person making $10 an hour. My mom used to make $600 a week as a manager for Bell Telecom. The job was at times very intense and she regularly worked 60 hours per week to fulfill her job duties. For those who have trouble moving zero's around that's $10 an hour. Of course someone actually getting paid $10 an hour wanting to work 60 hours per week couldn't do so in our incredibly socialist economy as every hour after 40 would be time and half. What employer would do that?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

According to income data it's more like 20-30%. Well, actually it's 16% in the service industry, but it's 20-30% that earn a total of what equates to minimum wage. Again, they may earn more but only work part time, then again, many people work two minimum wage jobs and therefore appear over the income. It all balances. 1/4 of America makes minimum wage.

According the article in the OP only 2 million Americans will get a raise due to the minimum wage increase. I'd really like to see where you're getting this "1/4 of America makes minimum wage".

Read my previous posts. It's pretty clear. 1/4 of Americans make roughly the equivalent of minimum wage, even if they don't have that exact wage.

What is the threshold for the article? Most likely it's people who would fall under the new minimum wage...this doesn't account for state minimum wages in excess of federal levels, persons who make barely more than the new limit (but still essentially minimum wage), etc. Moreover we don't know if this is based on employment data, income data, etc.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Atleast the Unions got a raise(most/some? base their wages from minimum wage)

I've never belonged to a union that based wages on the minimum wage. Perhaps the unions that represent the lowest wage earners, like janitorial, retail clerks, etc. might, but they'd be about the only ones.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

but wait! There's more!

But he said he did not expect the change to have a major impact on the economy because recent increases in productivity, which enables companies to produce more with fewer workers, are keeping labor costs in check.

Fewer workers??? so basically they can recoup those costs by making the survivors work harder and by laying a bunch of people off! What good news!

This happens across all wage classes (to a point) regardless. Productivity has always lowered the number of people "required" to do the same work whether you make minimum wage or $100 an hour.

(I'm not saying I'm for or against the minimum wage hike, just pointing that out above).

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

#2, a fair price is whatever price the worker demands.

If you offer to mow my lawn for $5, why should some third party deny you the right to do so?

We have a group in this country of crazy ideologues, who can be spotted by this sort of twisted phrasing.

The minimum wage protects people from the fact that they have to eat and we'd return to days of misery and suffering without these protections, because the power of the employer is higher than that of a lot of workers. The minimum wage works well for what it does, and shuld be kept and raised.

It's not about, in your twisted phrase, the 'right of the guy to mow your lawn for $5', it's about his right not to be exploited and get a wage above poverty.

Our nation needs to do more to educate people to get rid of this massive ideological craziness.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

#2, a fair price is whatever price the worker demands.

If you offer to mow my lawn for $5, why should some third party deny you the right to do so?

We have a group in this country of crazy ideologues, who can be spotted by this sort of twisted phrasing.

The minimum wage protects people from the fact that they have to eat and we'd return to days of misery and suffering without these protections, because the power of the employer is higher than that of a lot of workers. The minimum wage works well for what it does, and shuld be kept and raised.

It's not about, in your twisted phrase, the 'right of the guy to mow your lawn for $5', it's about his right not to be exploited and get a wage above poverty.

Our nation needs to do more to educate people to get rid of this massive ideological craziness.

I guess they'll need to stop teaching Economics. In the scenario laid out, the lawn mower is being compensated above his economic cost. The home owner is being forced to shop in a market crippled by a price floor. Ineffiency abounds.

 

[Nebor]

Workers like Walter Jasper, who earns minimum wage at a car wash in Nashville, Tenn., are happy to take the raise, but will still struggle with the higher gas and food prices hammering Americans.

"It will help out a little," said Jasper, who with his fiancee support a family of seven, and who earns the minimum plus commissions when customers order premium car-wash services.

You've got to be kidding me. SEVEN CHILDREN on minimum wage. SEVEN. We're all paying to raise this guy's kids. :disgust:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: dehemke
#1, maybe you shouldn't be raising a family on 10/hour.

#2, a fair price is whatever price the worker demands.

If you offer to mow my lawn for $5, why should some third party deny you the right to do so?

We have a group in this country of crazy ideologues, who can be spotted by this sort of twisted phrasing.

The minimum wage protects people from the fact that they have to eat and we'd return to days of misery and suffering without these protections, because the power of the employer is higher than that of a lot of workers. The minimum wage works well for what it does, and shuld be kept and raised.

It's not about, in your twisted phrase, the 'right of the guy to mow your lawn for $5', it's about his right not to be exploited and get a wage above poverty.

Our nation needs to do more to educate people to get rid of this massive ideological craziness.

I guess they'll need to stop teaching Economics. In the scenario laid out, the lawn mower is being compensated above his economic cost. The home owner is being forced to shop in a market crippled by a price floor. Ineffiency abounds.

Economics is just one factor in the equation.

How about we raise our kids by economics - if the kids from the time of birth don't provide us with something of value, they starve, tough crap.

'Oh, that's ridiculous'. Yes, and so are the things you types are willing to do do adults in the name of economics.

Economics has a very important role to play in our system, but it's not the only thing.

Let me put it simply:

Economics serves man, man does not serve economics. When economics serves man, use it. When it doesn't, feel free to choose things that 'don't make economic sense', as long as they make *practical* sense. Where's the sense in our providing more for the severely disabled, does example? Economics says get rid of them. Human values say otherwise.

You talk about the value of the mowing. That's fine when you're negotating many things, it's not fine for other things.

The minimum wage has an excellent balancing effect for the blind economics that could care less if you are eating dog food.

I'm not talking about providing things that are impractical - 'hey, why don't we buy everyone a tv'. I'm talking about a balanced approach to help meet essential needs that are either a good investment and/or a moral benefit that we can afford, when needed because the economic system lacks any of those 'human values'.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Workers like Walter Jasper, who earns minimum wage at a car wash in Nashville, Tenn., are happy to take the raise, but will still struggle with the higher gas and food prices hammering Americans.

"It will help out a little," said Jasper, who with his fiancee support a family of seven, and who earns the minimum plus commissions when customers order premium car-wash services.

You've got to be kidding me. SEVEN CHILDREN on minimum wage. SEVEN. We're all paying to raise this guy's kids. :disgust:

We're all paying to raise billionares' kids, too, FYI. The billionares didn't find the money on a tree.

 

[Capitalizt]

Originally posted by: Craig234

We're all paying to raise billionares' kids, too, FYI. The billionares didn't find the money on a tree.

You're right. Their parents EARNED it through voluntary exchange. Their parents have already paid their dues via hundreds of millions $$ in taxes. They aren't a burden to society. Their spending is a boon to it.

 

[Acanthus]

I support the national min wage increase, if anything to keep it in balance with the inflation we are seeing and will see over the short term. (yeah raising the min wage causes inflation, but nothing like what we are seeing from massive errors in pretty much every other aspect of our nations economy).

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
I support the national min wage increase, if anything to keep it in balance with the inflation we are seeing and will see over the short term. (yeah raising the min wage causes inflation, but nothing like what we are seeing from massive errors in pretty much every other aspect of our nations economy).

The minimum wage causes absolutely minimal to negligible impact on inflation, every reputable study I've seen concluded.

For just a few factors to consider, even including the bump other wages get from it, the low dollars involved are a very small part of the prices in the economy.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

David Heath, owner of Tiki Tan in College Station, Texas, said the increase will force him to raise prices for his monthly tanning services by about 12 percent. Tiki Tan had been paying its employees $6 per hour. "There just isn't any room for profit, and so this is why prices will have to go up," he said, citing the wage increase and higher fuel costs. "I have to recoup those costs."

Oh noes, his customers will have to pay an extra 70 cents to work on their future skin cancer :shocked: