Minimum Wage Increasing Again

[StageLeft]

OK, I just found a figure. About 2M people in the US make minimum wage, or .66% of the population. I don't know how many people in the US actually work. Let's say 130-150M? So, still we're less than 2%, and many if not most of these will be highschoolers or similar, so in fact I would suspect a pretty damn small amount of families actually go on minimum wage.

Another link

Data from the Department of Labor show that most minimum wage-earners are young, part-time workers and that relatively few live below the poverty line. A minimum wage hike, then, is more a raise for suburban teenagers than for the working poor.

Also, it covers my estimation on workers, which wasn't too far off

Only one in five minimum wage-earners lives in a family that earns less than the poverty line.

This means that out of 1.5% of workers in the US who are on minimum wage only .3% of those earning minimum wage actually live in a family that earns less than the poverty line.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: lupi
The bottom line here is that there are some employers that would pay as little as possible if there was no minimum wage.

Notice no one will answer my question.

They claim $6.55 is too high yet won't answer what is a fair wage?

$3 hr?

$2 hr?

1$ hr?

25 cents hr?

What is there to answer? Each person doesnt perform the same level of work nor have the same skill set. One person who sits on his ass all day may be worth 3 bucks to one company and 15 bucks to another.

A fair wage is one which each party agree's to.

Exactly.

I wonder what dave's answer is if his scenario was reversed.
They claim $6 is too low - what is a "fair wage"

$7?
$9?
$11?
$20?

It's F'n rediculous IMO to put artificial controls on wages when there is nothing but emotion behind the numbers.

Very simple, wherever the poverty line is which adjusts by inflation yet wages are not.

Nuts

 

[GoPackGo]

I was a young kid working in a grocery store for $3.35 an hour when minimum wage went up to $3.80.

I was excited to get the raise.

Another guy who had worked at the store was making $4.00 when it was 3.35 was still making 4.00 when it went to 3.80.


Within a few months we were both making $4.25


Lets just say he was not happy.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I was a young kid working in a grocery store for $3.35 an hour when minimum wage went up to $3.80.

I was excited to get the raise.

Another guy who had worked at the store was making $4.00 when it was 3.35 was still making 4.00 when it went to 3.80.

Within a few months we were both making $4.25

Lets just say he was not happy.

Obviously you were worth a lot more than him according to those that said so on here.

Thank you for making my point.

Of course they will now say he can leave the job and go elsewhere.

Which again makes my point. The only way you can get a raise now is by changing jobs.

It is now nothing more than a legal slavery system.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I agree there should be no min. But a max, would be good for all. Really do you think Hector earned his wages hell no. Should a person who is 7feet 3inches tall be paid millions of dollars to play basketball . I big mans game . Or just maybe they should raise the hop to 20 feet and let the smaller skilled players play. Seems to me basketball is a game that is very prejudice. And the rules should be changed so as to give all = access to the riches of the game . The only way to do it without bias is to raise the hop . Won't happen . WHY.

We have to make all these other rules for minorities so as to play fair . Sports is a big part of americans lives. So its important . Yet these games seem to be bias. towards bigmen . In the interest of our sense of fair play the rules need to be changed so as to more correctly allow more competion. Among ALL SIZES of people not just big men . The smaller man is in effect locked out of these very high paying jobs.

We all know its not about sports anymore but $$$$. SO if sports is a business. Than they have to make rule changes that give the small man = opertunities in the game . SO rules have to be changed.

I know this is BS. But . This is how America works. Its the working model in america. Sports is outside this fair system but needs to be brought inside like all other business.
Sports is not exempt from bias rules that favor a large man over a small man. NOt when there is a pay check involved. But thats AMERICA isn't it . Talks from both sides of mouth at once. Yes its a bad example. But so much of what liberials have accomplished is based on the above example. Funny thing is they actually made laws to cover this BS.


Heres an example of American BS.

2 boxers are going to fight . Both fighters are aware that one or the other could be killed.

In america if you have knowledge of something . It means YOU ARE AWARE.

IF in the fight one fighter kills the other its called an accident. BUT is it? Both fighters new one or the other could be killed. Thats not an accident. It is n fact a crime but our society won't label it .

Or lets say in a nasccar race . One driver gets angry at another and intentionly hit him . We have all seen it happens many times . But what if the other driver dies. Was that an accident . NO it was not. Its murder . This particular crime of using a race car as a weapon goes on ever weekend. And its a crime. and we are working hard to make sure its will be seen as a crime.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I was a young kid working in a grocery store for $3.35 an hour when minimum wage went up to $3.80.

I was excited to get the raise.

Another guy who had worked at the store was making $4.00 when it was 3.35 was still making 4.00 when it went to 3.80.

Within a few months we were both making $4.25

Lets just say he was not happy.

Obviously you were worth a lot more than him according to those that said so on here.

Thank you for making my point.

Of course they will now say he can leave the job and go elsewhere.

Which again makes my point. The only way you can get a raise now is by changing jobs.

It is now nothing more than a legal slavery system.

He could leave and go elsewhere, like school.

Did you read my figures? Minimum wage impacts almost nobody.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I was a young kid working in a grocery store for $3.35 an hour when minimum wage went up to $3.80.

I was excited to get the raise.

Another guy who had worked at the store was making $4.00 when it was 3.35 was still making 4.00 when it went to 3.80.

Within a few months we were both making $4.25

Lets just say he was not happy.

Obviously you were worth a lot more than him according to those that said so on here.

Thank you for making my point.

Of course they will now say he can leave the job and go elsewhere.

Which again makes my point. The only way you can get a raise now is by changing jobs.

It is now nothing more than a legal slavery system.

If it were legal slavery, how could you change jobs?

Look, I agree that times are tough. And if they get bad enough (god forbid), there may well be a danger that things will revert back to how bad they'd been at the turn of the 20th century. But in the meantime, way too many of those who like to throw around the "wage slave" should read up on what it really meant.

Pick up a copy of The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair, for example, and you'll find that the "wage slaves" he described were not a family of four struggling to figure out how to pay for their cell phones and for fuel in their cars on two salaries. Rather, the family of four was struggling to figure out how to pay for one meal a day on four salaries, with both parents and even adolescent kids working 12 hour days in factories that wouldn't so much as stop their assembly lines when one of them dropped to their deaths because workers were so expendable a commodity.

God knows I don't side with those in this forum who seem to think that it's always sheer laziness that results in people being poor. But I do think that there's a middle ground between their absurd extremes and yours.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Meh, we're at $8.07 in WA. If the CPI we use included fuel costs we'd be over $10 now. While I'm not a fan of artificial floors and ceilings there's really no alternative in a world run by corporations. Without it 1/4 of Americans would starve to death on the streets inside a year.

since when have 1/4 of people lived on minimum wage?

These are very rough for easy math:

$5/hr (an easy number to work with) equates to about $12,000/yr.
Roughly 12% of American citizens able to work earn under that.
Some states have higher minimums...up to $8/hr, which is roughly $16,000/yr.
Another 7% of American citizens able to work earn between 12 & 16k/yr.

Now, accounting for the number of persons cared for by others, who cannot themselves work (kids, elderly, handicapped, etc) we can estimate that a few percent is added as they would be dependent upon persons earning that wage. This gets VERY close to 25%.

I realize there are other explanations which would drop the numbers, but there are also other explanations which would raise them, so it all balances out in the end.

Uh go look at the numbers again. Less than 2% of workers work for min wage. 60% of those are waiters who work for tips. Where you get 12% of Americans are working for 5 bucks an hour(less than min wage for the past 15 years is beyond me).

Uhh, you go look at income numbers again. Here ya go:

Census Bureau income data.

That's males only, you can feel free to look up women, or households if you'd rather...the results all point to at LEAST the levels I claim, if not more.

If you would actually read you'd see that I used $5 because it was easy math. If you feel the need to work out the annual salary at exact minimum wage go ahead, but it won't change the facts.

If that's too much for you look at it this way: 12-16% of the US is below the poverty line. The poverty line is roughly minimum wage (once you allow for number of persons supported and state fluctuations in minimum wage).

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

According to income data it's more like 20-30%. Well, actually it's 16% in the service industry, but it's 20-30% that earn a total of what equates to minimum wage. Again, they may earn more but only work part time, then again, many people work two minimum wage jobs and therefore appear over the income. It all balances. 1/4 of America makes minimum wage.

According the article in the OP only 2 million Americans will get a raise due to the minimum wage increase. I'd really like to see where you're getting this "1/4 of America makes minimum wage".

After rereading his previous responses I think he is confusing wages earned with min wage earned. For instance I could work for 1 hour at 12,000 bucks an hour and still be considered working min wage in his world because my total yearly income is 12K.

A lot of people who earn 12-16K a year are most likely part time workers who earn above the min wage but dont work 32-40 hour weeks.

I wasn't confused, i clearly made allowances for it by reminding people that MANY minimum wage employees hold more than one job. This raises their income above what would be expected for minimum wage employees, roughly making up for those who work part time with pay rates above minimum.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I wonder how many adults actually are on minimum. I can see a highschool student doing it and they shouldn't have any minimum since they spend the money on crap but if you're an adult on minimum wage something is seriously wrong with you.

I almost wonder if minimum wage shouldn't apply to people under 21 or something because chances are low they are doing anything much with it.

It's not the worker who has the problem, it's the companies that only offer jobs at that level. So long as companies are increasing the number of low paying jobs, while decreasing the number of high paying jobs, more and more people will be required to make less than one would expect for their ability and experience.

Personal case in point: after completing his masters degree (with two bachelors, honors in all), a friend worked fast food for 14 months before finding a teaching position due to a glut of teachers in his fields in his area. He ended up having to take a position 2000 miles away just to be working in his field. This is common, and growing moreso.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
OK, I just found a figure. About 2M people in the US make minimum wage, or .66% of the population. I don't know how many people in the US actually work. Let's say 130-150M? So, still we're less than 2%, and many if not most of these will be highschoolers or similar, so in fact I would suspect a pretty damn small amount of families actually go on minimum wage.

Another link

Data from the Department of Labor show that most minimum wage-earners are young, part-time workers and that relatively few live below the poverty line. A minimum wage hike, then, is more a raise for suburban teenagers than for the working poor.

Also, it covers my estimation on workers, which wasn't too far off

Only one in five minimum wage-earners lives in a family that earns less than the poverty line.

This means that out of 1.5% of workers in the US who are on minimum wage only .3% of those earning minimum wage actually live in a family that earns less than the poverty line.

Which shows that all the people saying jobs will be lost, people will have to close their business, etc... are just BS.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ
I know what is a good idea!

How about capping the minimum wage at $3.50 so that corporations don't have to raise prices? We all know that with that low of a minimum wage, corporations will never raise prices. In fact, prices will go down! :disgust:

$6.55 isn't a livable wage for those who have families to feed. In the 1960s, adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage was the equivalent of what would be $10 dollars today. Families could live on the minimum wage back then. Not so today.

Since the 80s, the minimum wage has been raised at an pace so infrequent that we haven't seen anything like it for decades. Another great accomplishment of the Ronald Ray Gun administration. :roll:

You think a family can live on $10/hr?

About 20% of people do.

Bullshit. Those people are students or single. Find me 20% of families who live on minimum wage.

We have, for years. We averaged about 12k, with some years into the 20s and a few under 10.

 

[GrGr]

The US capitalist system is selfdestructing because the workers don't have enough real money. No capital throughout the system = no healthy capitalism.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

According to income data it's more like 20-30%. Well, actually it's 16% in the service industry, but it's 20-30% that earn a total of what equates to minimum wage. Again, they may earn more but only work part time, then again, many people work two minimum wage jobs and therefore appear over the income. It all balances. 1/4 of America makes minimum wage.

According the article in the OP only 2 million Americans will get a raise due to the minimum wage increase. I'd really like to see where you're getting this "1/4 of America makes minimum wage".

After rereading his previous responses I think he is confusing wages earned with min wage earned. For instance I could work for 1 hour at 12,000 bucks an hour and still be considered working min wage in his world because my total yearly income is 12K.

A lot of people who earn 12-16K a year are most likely part time workers who earn above the min wage but dont work 32-40 hour weeks.

I wasn't confused, i clearly made allowances for it by reminding people that MANY minimum wage employees hold more than one job. This raises their income above what would be expected for minimum wage employees, roughly making up for those who work part time with pay rates above minimum.

Go find the minimum wage information and stop using household income data to back up your claims. 1.7% of workers work for min wage. Of those 60% work in the food services industry. Thus they are working for tips. So 40% of 1.7% are actually working for min wage. I bet a good % of those are kids working jobs after school for extra cash.

You are mixing apples and oranges.

 

[Jaskalas]

When it comes to wealth redistribution I prefer minimum wage over taxation. It is much more transparent AND without the middle man taking his cut.

 

[BassBomb]

Ours is about 8.50 but we have higher taxes

I make 19.75 though and only my young cousins 16-18 make min

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'd just like to say that I believe minimium wage should be $50/h. Then everybody will be rich and can afford homes, that would help the economy in this housing crunch. Nobody would be in poverty and 14 year old boys can work at McDonalds scrubbing toilets and raise his family of 10.

There is plenty of good to go around. Corporations have it too nice, they don't pay enough taxes as is, so they should pay atleast $50/h for wage.

Once again the right offers not anything sensible but idiocy for the discussion.

Unable to understand why a *minimum wage* that has some balance makes sense, they throw out sarcastic calls - why not makke it a billion fo everyone?

Since $8 or $10/hour and a billlion for everyone are equally sensible? Nice contribution to the discussion.

Actually, it reflects the utter lack of any sensible view, an ignorance of the massive research done into what makes sense and is practical.

It's basically like a brain-damaged guy with a beer in his armchair yellling inocherent nonsense, not a discussin.

But it probably makes him feel better as he thinks he just 'proved' that since $50/hour isn't practical, he won the argument against the minimum wage.

It really raises the question what you do about voters who are so incompetetent as citizns, lacking values, information, and a variety of other attributes as citizens.

Why would you waste the time with a real response to such a person, who is the equivalent of someone who says 'you want a 55 mph speed limit? Fine make it a 1 MPH speed limit!'

You could sit there all day discussing the issues of 55 versus 65 versus 70 and the fuel consumption, safety issue, time lost and other facts, but you're talking to a loudmouth.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
What about those making a bit more than minimum wage.

So you've got some guys making $8 an hour. The guys below them just got a pay raise to $6.55 for doing the same job they had been doing. Seems like you'd have a lot of $8 an hour people wanting a raise too.

You do. That's part of the good effect of the minimum wage, helping those who are close to it. That's among its most important functions.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ
I know what is a good idea!

How about capping the minimum wage at $3.50 so that corporations don't have to raise prices? We all know that with that low of a minimum wage, corporations will never raise prices. In fact, prices will go down! :disgust:

$6.55 isn't a livable wage for those who have families to feed. In the 1960s, adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage was the equivalent of what would be $10 dollars today. Families could live on the minimum wage back then. Not so today.

Since the 80s, the minimum wage has been raised at an pace so infrequent that we haven't seen anything like it for decades. Another great accomplishment of the Ronald Ray Gun administration. :roll:

You think a family can live on $10/hr?

About 20% of people do.

Bullshit. Those people are students or single. Find me 20% of families who live on minimum wage.

We have, for years. We averaged about 12k, with some years into the 20s and a few under 10.

You're 20% of the population? Damn, you need to teach your family about birth control.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I wonder how many adults actually are on minimum. I can see a highschool student doing it and they shouldn't have any minimum since they spend the money on crap but if you're an adult on minimum wage something is seriously wrong with you.

I almost wonder if minimum wage shouldn't apply to people under 21 or something because chances are low they are doing anything much with it.

It's not the worker who has the problem, it's the companies that only offer jobs at that level. So long as companies are increasing the number of low paying jobs, while decreasing the number of high paying jobs, more and more people will be required to make less than one would expect for their ability and experience.

Personal case in point: after completing his masters degree (with two bachelors, honors in all), a friend worked fast food for 14 months before finding a teaching position due to a glut of teachers in his fields in his area. He ended up having to take a position 2000 miles away just to be working in his field. This is common, and growing moreso.

That's just lack of planning imho. Just because one finishes school does not mean they are suddenly greeted at the corporate door down the street. It sounds like your friend could have had a job a lot sooner had he/she been willing to move instead of working fast food for 14 months before realizing 'crap maybe i should move.'

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I wonder how many adults actually are on minimum. I can see a highschool student doing it and they shouldn't have any minimum since they spend the money on crap but if you're an adult on minimum wage something is seriously wrong with you.

I almost wonder if minimum wage shouldn't apply to people under 21 or something because chances are low they are doing anything much with it.

It's not the worker who has the problem, it's the companies that only offer jobs at that level. So long as companies are increasing the number of low paying jobs, while decreasing the number of high paying jobs, more and more people will be required to make less than one would expect for their ability and experience.

Personal case in point: after completing his masters degree (with two bachelors, honors in all), a friend worked fast food for 14 months before finding a teaching position due to a glut of teachers in his fields in his area. He ended up having to take a position 2000 miles away just to be working in his field. This is common, and growing moreso.

That's just lack of planning imho. Just because one finishes school does not mean they are suddenly greeted at the corporate door down the street. It sounds like your friend could have had a job a lot sooner had he/she been willing to move instead of working fast food for 14 months before realizing 'crap maybe i should move.'

Clearly it's not enough just to be able to find a job. You have to be able to get your dream job, make $100,000+/yr. out of the gate, and be able to walk to work from your childhood home or else it's a complete failure of capitalism. The government should step in and provide that for everybody. They can't fail.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: ChrisFromNJ
Which is why a minimum wage should be a livable wage... and as of right now, it isn't anything close. Minimum wage has failed to keep up with inflation.

You do realize you are advocating paying the french fry cook at McDonalds a living wage right?

You do realize that even in the rural south that means paying a french fry cook 25 grand a year.

You realize in New York that's like 75 grand a year right?

Thanks for making my dollar menu the 3 dollar menu.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Personal case in point: after completing his masters degree (with two bachelors, honors in all), a friend worked fast food for 14 months before finding a teaching position due to a glut of teachers in his fields in his area. He ended up having to take a position 2000 miles away just to be working in his field. This is common, and growing moreso.

Your friend picked the wrong field. I know guys with university degrees my age teaching English in Japan and getting hammered five times/week. Who's fault is that? This is like, what's better a degree in engineering or english lit?

Which shows that all the people saying jobs will be lost, people will have to close their business, etc... are just BS.

Yes, in reality it hardly matters either way because so few people are on it.

It sounds like your friend could have had a job a lot sooner had he/she been willing to move instead of working fast food for 14 months before realizing 'crap maybe i should move.'

Probably. A neighbor of mine went to school and amassed $25k in a specialty education over 9 months and was unwilling to move, so never got a job, and had to completely pay it back doing lower wage jobs and then jumped fields. On the other hand I moved 2000 miles also to avoid the same thing. It sucked but if I wanted guaranteed employment I would have become a doctor. I didn't want to, so I played what I was dealt.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I moved 2000 miles also to avoid the same thing. It sucked but if I wanted guaranteed employment I would have become a doctor. I didn't want to, so I played what I was dealt.

And ended up in Alabama. Growing up in Canada did you ever imagined yourself living there?

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'd just like to say that I believe minimium wage should be $50/h. Then everybody will be rich and can afford homes, that would help the economy in this housing crunch. Nobody would be in poverty and 14 year old boys can work at McDonalds scrubbing toilets and raise his family of 10.

There is plenty of good to go around. Corporations have it too nice, they don't pay enough taxes as is, so they should pay atleast $50/h for wage.

Once again the right offers not anything sensible but idiocy for the discussion.

Unable to understand why a *minimum wage* that has some balance makes sense, they throw out sarcastic calls - why not makke it a billion fo everyone?

Since $8 or $10/hour and a billlion for everyone are equally sensible? Nice contribution to the discussion.

Actually, it reflects the utter lack of any sensible view, an ignorance of the massive research done into what makes sense and is practical.

It's basically like a brain-damaged guy with a beer in his armchair yellling inocherent nonsense, not a discussin.

But it probably makes him feel better as he thinks he just 'proved' that since $50/hour isn't practical, he won the argument against the minimum wage.

It really raises the question what you do about voters who are so incompetetent as citizns, lacking values, information, and a variety of other attributes as citizens.

Why would you waste the time with a real response to such a person, who is the equivalent of someone who says 'you want a 55 mph speed limit? Fine make it a 1 MPH speed limit!'

You could sit there all day discussing the issues of 55 versus 65 versus 70 and the fuel consumption, safety issue, time lost and other facts, but you're talking to a loudmouth.

I'm not right. In fact, I'm very far from the right. I'd like to throw any (right) republican out of office and hang them from the nearest tree. But then again, I'd say that about any (left) democrat as well.

You want a sensible arguement, but you (the left since you want to bring left/right into the discussion) will not provide one.

Why not have no minimium wage? "OMG then we have slave labor!!!!" Not quite.

Let the market dictate wages. Who's going to work at McDonalds for $2.50 an hour when you can work at Burger King for $8.50 an hour? "OMG then both corporations will sign a pact and make everybody work for $1.00".... Really?

I'm sorry to say, but people aren't going to work if working gets them nothing. If a $1.00 wage pays no bills, doesn't even pay for food for the day, then nobody will work for $1.00 an hour. Let the people decide where to work and for what wage. It works great for anybody who makes above minimum wage anyways. A computer programmer gets paid $25.00-$35.00 an hour on average. Why? Because programmers will not work for under that amount, so the companies have to be willing to pay it. Suprise suprise.

My guess, is when confronted with a logical arguement, the response will be to ignore that person. Will I hear from you again Craig?