Minimum Wage Can Stand Some Maximizing...

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Vic
Even with the greatest insurance coverage and kindliest employer, it is inevitable that you (and all of us) will eventually be struck with a serious medical problem from which we will not recover. No amount of tune changing will change that.

You should be thankful for what you do have, not resentful for what you don't.

That is true, but what does it have to do with this discussion. The government cannot prevent all deaths, heck, it can only postpone it in some rare cases. But it can provide the minimal opportunity for people to live in poverty as long as their body allows them. There is a fine balance there - no one is arguing that the government should do everything possible to save a life (until you talk about abortion).

You never answered my basic principal. I believe that someone working full time should be paid enough to survive without needing additional governmental assistance (the most basic shared shelter, minimal utilities such as clean water, the most basic health care needs such as bandages, and food). What is wrong with that goal?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Meuge
Zentroll - Poor people don't deserve to live.

If you say so.

Funny how the small government people want the government to do something as massive as dictating wages in the free market.

Not as funny as letting them starve or die from lack of proper medical care though.

Who is starving? Who is dying? What has minimum wage ever done to improve their lot? Can one afford "proper medical care" on $7.50/hr.? $10/hr.? $20/hr.?

What's really funny is the constant exaggerating to extremes that is constantly done here.
Example: "How does one define a 'fair wage' inside a partially unregulated marketplace?"
ATPN retort: "YOU WANT POOR PEOPLE TO DIE!!11!!11!!!"

:roll: It's pretty pathetic.

Yeah, the way business act like they have no resposibility for the welfare of their employees is pretty pathetic. Use them up and spit them out.

The way the govement wastes money while people are dying of medical problems that could have been prevented is pathetic.

Hey, I didn't vote for this crap and I'll critisize it all I want to. Deal with it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Vic
Even with the greatest insurance coverage and kindliest employer, it is inevitable that you (and all of us) will eventually be struck with a serious medical problem from which we will not recover. No amount of tune changing will change that.

You should be thankful for what you do have, not resentful for what you don't.

That is true, but what does it have to do with this discussion. The government cannot prevent all deaths, heck, it can only postpone it in some rare cases. But it can provide the minimal opportunity for people to live in poverty as long as their body allows them.

It has everything to do with the discussion. Because the translation of your last sentence is "because I like my poor servants to stay poor, in their place, and to stick around as such for long as possible."
Were things otherwise, and we stopped bribing them, then they would forget their place, riot, revolt, and switch things around, now wouldn't they? Can't have that, can we?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Vic
Who is starving? Who is dying? What has minimum wage ever done to improve their lot? Can one afford "proper medical care" on $7.50/hr.? $10/hr.? $20/hr.?

What's really funny is the constant exaggerating to extremes that is constantly done here.
Example: "How does one define a 'fair wage' inside a partially unregulated marketplace?"
ATPN retort: "YOU WANT POOR PEOPLE TO DIE!!11!!11!!!"

:roll: It's pretty pathetic.

It's simply their way of not having to actually do anything about the problem, pass the buck along, and claim they're solving things.

Despite how unpopular it will make me here, I am forced to agree with you.

Who's forcing yopu??? Bush?? LMAO!!!

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Vic
Who is starving? Who is dying? What has minimum wage ever done to improve their lot? Can one afford "proper medical care" on $7.50/hr.? $10/hr.? $20/hr.?

What's really funny is the constant exaggerating to extremes that is constantly done here.
Example: "How does one define a 'fair wage' inside a partially unregulated marketplace?"
ATPN retort: "YOU WANT POOR PEOPLE TO DIE!!11!!11!!!"

:roll: It's pretty pathetic.

It's simply their way of not having to actually do anything about the problem, pass the buck along, and claim they're solving things.

So, you want government not to interfere with the economy(this issue), but it is ok to have government dictate to women what they can and cannot do with their body.. That is your way of wanting the world to revolve around your personal beliefs.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Vic
Were things otherwise, and we stopped bribing them, then they would forget their place, riot, revolt, and switch things around, now wouldn't they? Can't have that, can we?

Explain how letting the minimum wage drop cause revolts, riots, etc? Is there any evidence of this? Nothing in my post states that they must stay in poverty. If they want to work harder, get more education, etc., then they can climb out of poverty. All I state is that they deserve at least basic survival in exchange for working. You are confusing "at least" with "at most".

If things switch around, I'd be fine with that. I'd hope they'd also have minimum wages too now that I'd be poor. Of course, if the new rich drop the minimum wage laws, I'll just revolt and become wealthy again. The revolts will continue, endlessly, always flipping sides, following your logic. That is, until a minimum wage law is put in place eliminating the need for revolts.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the way business act like they have no resposibility for the welfare of their employees is pretty pathetic. Use them up and spit them out.

The way the govement wastes money while people are dying of medical problems that could have been prevented is pathetic.

Hey, I didn't vote for this crap and I'll critisize it all I want to. Deal with it.

Deal with what? Your post here is a nonsensical emotional piece of crap.

Businesses act like they no responsibility for the welfare of their employees? That's complete BS. They pay them everything the market will bear. Employment is an ongoing business relationship, not slavery.

Government will always waste money. It is constantly rewarded for doing so.
As to people "dying of medical problems that could have been prevented," how would you expect government to prevent that when the people who actually lose their lives didn't? Should government have forced them to quit smoking 30 years earlier?

Your voting or not voting has nothing to with it. What you want can't and won't ever happen. You want to be free like an adult while coddled and protected like a child at the same time. Grow up and be a man.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Vic
Who is starving? Who is dying? What has minimum wage ever done to improve their lot? Can one afford "proper medical care" on $7.50/hr.? $10/hr.? $20/hr.?

What's really funny is the constant exaggerating to extremes that is constantly done here.
Example: "How does one define a 'fair wage' inside a partially unregulated marketplace?"
ATPN retort: "YOU WANT POOR PEOPLE TO DIE!!11!!11!!!"

:roll: It's pretty pathetic.

It's simply their way of not having to actually do anything about the problem, pass the buck along, and claim they're solving things.

Despite how unpopular it will make me here, I am forced to agree with you.

Who's forcing yopu??? Bush?? LMAO!!!

Logic forced me.

You're not solving anything, you just want to force others to solve your problems for you with minimal effort (besides bitching) on your part.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Vic
Were things otherwise, and we stopped bribing them, then they would forget their place, riot, revolt, and switch things around, now wouldn't they? Can't have that, can we?

Explain how letting the minimum wage drop cause revolts, riots, etc? Is there any evidence of this? Nothing in my post states that they must stay in poverty. If they want to work harder, get more education, etc., then they can climb out of poverty. All I state is that they deserve at least basic survival in exchange for working.

If things switch around, I'd be fine with that. I'd hope they'd also have minimum wages too now that I'd be poor. Of course, if the new rich drop the minimum wage laws, I'll just revolt and become wealthy again. The revolts will continue, endlessly, always flipping sides, following your logic. That is, until a minimum wage law is put in place eliminating the need for revolts.

Sigh... only 1 of 2 things could possibly happen. Either the free market keeps wages afloat at the minimal level, or the people riot and revolt if it does not. Either way the system is self-organizing.
What the minimum wage law does is make sure that sides don't change. Status quo locked in place. You just don't get it, do you? You're not helping the poor, you're fitting them into their chains.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Vic
What the minimum wage law does is make sure that sides don't change. Status quo locked in place. You just don't get it, do you? You're not helping the poor, you're fitting them into their chains.

I come from a family that was minimum wage. Each one of us broke free. These chains are not strong like you imply. If each full time job paid enough to survive, then with two full time jobs, you can pull yourself out of poverty. Or a full time job and education (this is how we got out), etc. If you choose not to, then that is your problem and you'll stay in poverty. But at least you can survive without governmental handouts.

 

[DotheDamnTHing]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Vic
What the minimum wage law does is make sure that sides don't change. Status quo locked in place. You just don't get it, do you? You're not helping the poor, you're fitting them into their chains.

I come from a family that was minimum wage. Each one of us broke free. These chains are not strong like you imply. If each full time job paid enough to survive, then with two full time jobs, you can pull yourself out of poverty. Or a full time job and education (this is how we got out), etc. If you choose not to, then that is your problem and you'll stay in poverty. But at least you can survive without governmental handouts.

induction?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Vic
Who is starving? Who is dying? What has minimum wage ever done to improve their lot? Can one afford "proper medical care" on $7.50/hr.? $10/hr.? $20/hr.?

What's really funny is the constant exaggerating to extremes that is constantly done here.
Example: "How does one define a 'fair wage' inside a partially unregulated marketplace?"
ATPN retort: "YOU WANT POOR PEOPLE TO DIE!!11!!11!!!"

:roll: It's pretty pathetic.

It's simply their way of not having to actually do anything about the problem, pass the buck along, and claim they're solving things.

Despite how unpopular it will make me here, I am forced to agree with you.

Who's forcing yopu??? Bush?? LMAO!!!

Logic forced me.

You're not solving anything, you just want to force others to solve your problems for you with minimal effort (besides bitching) on your part.

I've seen your logic in action before. Maybe you should step back and reevaluate.

And you just want to continue to screw the little guy and pat yourself on the back for being so damn smart while spouting the gobal economy, Reaganomics, trickle down therory BS.

Working people deserve to make enough money to provide for their health care, retirement and even afford a vacation. Would you settle for less? I don't think any working person should have to.

It's time for some other people to step up to the plate and feel the pain they are causing others. The only way that will happen right now is if the whole system goes down the crapper and I think that's a distinct possibility. The funny part is that if it does happen you will go top your grave blaming the little guys for screwing things up.

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: zendari
I'm not "letting" anyone do anything. They are individuals who live their lives on their own accord.

Would you change your tune if you suddenly are struck with a rare medical problem where you cannot work and your insurance doesn't cover you?

No.How long do you want to play the would/could/should/whatif game?

Minimum wage, and medical insurance are two different issues. You can have a minimum wage job with medical benefits but the benefits could be pretty piss poor. One could get struck with a debilitating disease or tragic event and your medical coverage could be limited and your minimum wage job would not be sufficient to cover your medical expenses after insurance. It happens every day to hundreds upon hundreds of Americans. Tragedy could happen to You... that comfortable life as you know it can all go away in an instant, and then you could be the one on the other end of the short stick.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the way business act like they have no resposibility for the welfare of their employees is pretty pathetic. Use them up and spit them out.

The way the govement wastes money while people are dying of medical problems that could have been prevented is pathetic.

Hey, I didn't vote for this crap and I'll critisize it all I want to. Deal with it.

Deal with what? Your post here is a nonsensical emotional piece of crap.

Businesses act like they no responsibility for the welfare of their employees? That's complete BS. They pay them everything the market will bear. Employment is an ongoing business relationship, not slavery.

Government will always waste money. It is constantly rewarded for doing so.
As to people "dying of medical problems that could have been prevented," how would you expect government to prevent that when the people who actually lose their lives didn't? Should government have forced them to quit smoking 30 years earlier?

Your voting or not voting has nothing to with it. What you want can't and won't ever happen. You want to be free like an adult while coddled and protected like a child at the same time. Grow up and be a man.

LOL, you should be "coddled" the way you think the poor people are. I'd like to talk to you after 20 or 30 years of starvation wages with no health care.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: zendari
I'm not "letting" anyone do anything. They are individuals who live their lives on their own accord.

Would you change your tune if you suddenly are struck with a rare medical problem where you cannot work and your insurance doesn't cover you?

No.How long do you want to play the would/could/should/whatif game?

Minimum wage, and medical insurance are two different issues. You can have a minimum wage job with medical benefits but the benefits could be pretty piss poor. One could get struck with a debilitating disease or tragic event and your medical coverage could be limited and your minimum wage job would not be sufficient to cover your medical expenses after insurance. It happens every day to hundreds upon hundreds of Americans. Tragedy could happen to You... that comfortable life as you know it can all go away in an instant, and then you could be the one on the other end of the short stick.

My brother-in-laws uncle (a mechanical engineer) was once in charge of the whole transmission division of International Harvestor Corporation. He quit and opened up his own small manufacturing business. Health care costs got so high that he cut back on his insurance. His wife got very sick and medical bills wiped them out. She died, and he's living in a crappy old trailer house right now out in the middle of no place, flat broke.

Edit: For the record, he didn't declare bankruptcy, but when it was all said and done he had $3000 left to buy his trailer house and he's living on his SS.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: dullard
You never answered my basic principal. I believe that someone working full time should be paid enough to survive without needing additional governmental assistance (the most basic shared shelter, minimal utilities such as clean water, the most basic health care needs such as bandages, and food). What is wrong with that goal?

Why? Would you offer a job providing the above for their meager productivity?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Vic
Who is starving? Who is dying? What has minimum wage ever done to improve their lot? Can one afford "proper medical care" on $7.50/hr.? $10/hr.? $20/hr.?

What's really funny is the constant exaggerating to extremes that is constantly done here.
Example: "How does one define a 'fair wage' inside a partially unregulated marketplace?"
ATPN retort: "YOU WANT POOR PEOPLE TO DIE!!11!!11!!!"

:roll: It's pretty pathetic.

It's simply their way of not having to actually do anything about the problem, pass the buck along, and claim they're solving things.

So, you want government not to interfere with the economy(this issue), but it is ok to have government dictate to women what they can and cannot do with their body.. That is your way of wanting the world to revolve around your personal beliefs.

This is exactly what liberals do when forcing me to contribute tax dollars to their beliefs. But I'm not dictating anything; people are free to choose their sexual habits as they see fit.

 

[Meuge]

A consumer economy grows when the consumers have disposable income. Money taken out of the product cycle and placed into the bonds/futures/stocks cycle provides far less economic growth per dollar/year then money that keeps changing hands. It is in the long-term interests of the economy as a whole, to provide each member of the workforce with sufficient funds to keep the cycle going. Not to mention the fact that people who have their basic needs (acceptable shelter, food, clothing, and healthcare), are far more productive than those that don't. So next time you hear a troll argue for robber-baron economy, please remember that it led us into the Great Depression.

/thread

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Meuge
A consumer economy grows when the consumers have disposable income. Money taken out of the product cycle and placed into the bonds/futures/stocks cycle provides far less economic growth per dollar/year then money that keeps changing hands. It is in the long-term interests of the economy as a whole, to provide each member of the workforce with sufficient funds to keep the cycle going. Not to mention the fact that people who have their basic needs (acceptable shelter, food, clothing, and healthcare), are far more productive than those that don't. So next time you hear a troll argue for robber-baron economy, please remember that it led us into the Great Depression.

/thread

Thank you, John Maynard Keynes :roll:


The Great Depression was caused by a flawed money supply management strategy by the then-fledgling Federal Reserve. Greenspan wrote a great piece on it some decades ago that I am sure you could easily google up. In the meantime, dump all your investments...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
LOL, you should be "coddled" the way you think the poor people are. I'd like to talk to you after 20 or 30 years of starvation wages with no health care.

Your emotional arguments have clouded your ability to think clearly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I've seen your logic in action before. Maybe you should step back and reevaluate.

And you just want to continue to screw the little guy and pat yourself on the back for being so damn smart while spouting the gobal economy, Reaganomics, trickle down therory BS.

Working people deserve to make enough money to provide for their health care, retirement and even afford a vacation. Would you settle for less? I don't think any working person should have to.

It's time for some other people to step up to the plate and feel the pain they are causing others. The only way that will happen right now is if the whole system goes down the crapper and I think that's a distinct possibility. The funny part is that if it does happen you will go top your grave blaming the little guys for screwing things up.

First, you're entirely full of sh!t and have no clue what you're talking about.

Second, you ask if I would settle for less. The real question is, why do they, these nebulous poor that you speak of (but can't point to and obviously aren't a member of). I grew up poor, and am not today. How did that happen? Answer: no thanks to people like yourself.

Third, you've been reading far too much of McOwen's nutcase crap. If the whole system goes down the crapper, millions will suffer, but not the rich. Do you know what J. Paul Getty said about the Great Depression? That the "bargain days" of the 30s were not exploited as well as they could have been. That's what going down the crapper means to them. And you're basically their ignorant pawn.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

minimum salary should be 20,000 a year.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Donny Baker
The minimum wage should NOT be raised.

In fact, it should be abolished.

wtf??

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I've seen your logic in action before. Maybe you should step back and reevaluate.

And you just want to continue to screw the little guy and pat yourself on the back for being so damn smart while spouting the gobal economy, Reaganomics, trickle down therory BS.

Working people deserve to make enough money to provide for their health care, retirement and even afford a vacation. Would you settle for less? I don't think any working person should have to.

It's time for some other people to step up to the plate and feel the pain they are causing others. The only way that will happen right now is if the whole system goes down the crapper and I think that's a distinct possibility. The funny part is that if it does happen you will go top your grave blaming the little guys for screwing things up.

First, you're entirely full of sh!t and have no clue what you're talking about.

Wow, you think I'm full of it and I think you are. No news here, just some name calling.

Second, you ask if I would settle for less. The real question is, why do they, these nebulous poor that you speak of (but can't point to and obviously aren't a member of). I grew up poor, and am not today. How did that happen? Answer: no thanks to people like yourself.

You don't know me or what I've done either, you just think you do. It actually doesn't suprise me you grew up poor, I kind of figured you did by how tight you are. My Dad gre up in the dirty 30's and I've heard all the stories.

Third, you've been reading far too much of McOwen's nutcase crap. If the whole system goes down the crapper, millions will suffer, but not the rich. Do you know what J. Paul Getty said about the Great Depression? That the "bargain days" of the 30s were not exploited as well as they could have been. That's what going down the crapper means to them. And you're basically their ignorant pawn.

Your correct about who will suffer if the system tanks, and that is why I'm emotional about it. I want to wake people up and tell them it doesn't have to be like that. It will affect the poor the most, but everyone will suffer. You act like I'm worried about the rich and call me there ignorant pawn. LOL, you really don't have a clue and haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying have you. While your having a little snack, the rich are having a 12 course meal. It's obvious to me now what you are, just another heartless old coot that enjoys counting his money more then being a human being. Pathetic, just pathetic.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Your correct about who will suffer if the system tanks, and that is why I'm emotional about it. I want to wake people up and tell them it doesn't have to be like that. It will affect the poor the most, but everyone will suffer. You act like I'm worried about the rich and call me there ignorant pawn. LOL, you really don't have a clue and haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying have you. While your having a little snack, the rich are having a 12 course meal. It's obvious to me now what you are, just another heartless old coot that enjoys counting his money more then being a human being. Pathetic, just pathetic.

Sigh... you just completely don't get it. I think it comes from a lack of reading comprehension. I said ignorant pawn. Meaning that you do what they want without realizing it. You're not helping anyone, that's for sure. All I see here are persons of privilege pretending to be concerned about the less fortunate, just as long as it's other people who get fscked over for the sake of their concern. That's very hypocritical of you. If you really cared, you'd actually be involved in helping and giving of yourself, not bitching that others don't help to your satisfaction.