Mike Rowe talks about lack of skilled labor

[Terzo]

I was watching German news the other day. Around August 1 is when the "Azubis" start the practical side of their vocational training.

See, in Germany it goes basically like this:

1) At the end of the 4th or 6th grade, a decision made mostly by your elementary teacher(s) based on your 4-6-year performance history, tracks you into either a college-prep track (Gymnasium) or a vocational track (Realschule/Hauptschule).

2) From about grade 5 (or 7) until grade 10, you take traditional "high school" classes with a vocational slant.

3) Based on your grades following grade 10, you then apply to be an apprentice, almost like applying for a job. If successful, you are accepted into the program, get paid, and begin your vocational training alongside the theoretical work at school.

4) If your apprenticeship goes well, the idea is that you will get a full-time job with the company.

This system has existed in various forms since the Middle Ages and is the backbone of Germany's export economy.

Anyway, back the news report I heard the other day: Germany is short by some 60,000 positions in filling the open apprenticeships this year. Not enough Germans are graduating high school with the marks to get into the apprenticeship programs.

I don't know how well American companies (or the public) would take to it. BBC news did a piece on it a while ago. I don't know how I like being put on a career track as early as middle school, but your description of it doesn't sound too restrictive.

Anyways, the two tidbits that stood out to me are...

Employers and government pay for them, with the wage to the apprentice often about a third of what they get when they are qualified.

Employers bemoan the lack of applicants, but the problem is partly money. The better the funding for apprenticeship schemes, the more the burden on the coffers of the funders, namely companies and tax-payers.
The dilemma is that training for the future costs money today - as pay to the apprentices and for the teaching facilities - and when funds are tight, the pressure on those funds is greater.

With all the political budget issues we have I doubt many people would back more government spending, though funding apprenticeships (especially if they fill needed positions) sounds like a good use of tax money.


The other bit about spending money now for return later doesn't seem like something that American companies would embrace. I know I'm being harsh, but I feel like the corporate creed is to make a quick buck by any means necessary. Why do something silly like invest for the future?

 

[BoomerD]

That is the single biggest misconception of those who disparage trades people. Most trades require aptitude and the right attitude. To put it more simply, not everyone can wash dishes and it has nothing to do with intelligence or lack of it.

Most trades pay quite well and there are often more opportunities to move up than in the corporate world.

BTW, my class in culinary school started out with 50 students. We graduated 12.

We had guys wash out of the apprenticeship all the time. It's hard dirty work, and contrary to what slayer seems to think, not everyone can do it. Sure, you can probably learn the basics...how to start the equipment, what the various controls do, but making that piece of equipment perform correctly isn't easy...and many people just don't have the aptitude for it.
Same with any of the skilled trades. I can cut and thread pipe...but I'll never be a plumber, I understand the basics of pipefitting, how to measure a run, how to fit the various connections, etc., but I'll never be a fitter.
I can butcher wood, drive nails, etc, but I'll never be a carpenter.
Of all the "other skilled trades," the only one that I could actually do well is ironworking...but not rod busting. Too much bending over...all fucking day, bent over tying rods.

My apprenticeship taught me to weld, (had to become certified on mild steel) mechanics, (diesel and gas, hydraulics, and some electrical, and proper maintenance.
Not everyone wants to spend 10-12 hours crawling around a piece of dirty, hot, greasy equipment with a grease gun in hand, changing oils and filters, repairing things that you find while you're doing maintenance.

I made decent money in the trades. My last job was about $35/hr, and all the overtime I wanted...and then some. My last couple of years, I made over $90K.
It was easy to make $80K/yr...if I hadn't been commuting so far every day, (~100 miles each way) I could have easily made over $100k.
Do ALL heavy equipment operators around here make that? No...many don't want the overtime, don't want to work in the bad weather, (or can't...dirt work shuts down in the rain) and lots of operators only want to work enough hours in a year to get their pension credit and pay for the medical insurance for the year.

The skilled trades aren't for everyone...and not everyone can do them.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I think you may have misinterpreted my statement. I'm referring to the people who can't do trivial things around their house - basic skill sets that the majority of the population had 30 years ago. People who HAVE to hire a carpenter to hang a book shelf. People who HAVE to hire an electrician to change a bad switch. People who HAVE to hire a plumber for a leaky faucet. So many people are incapable of even trying to learn a simple skill.

Yep. People who HAVE to hire a plumber to relight their pilot light. People who return their bicycles because they can't adjust it themselves. People who HAVE to get GPS because they can't read a map. The list is endless. My folks had a often talked about 'list of things to know' before any of us kids were allowed to leave home, which meant by age 18.

 

[BoomerD]

Yep. People who HAVE to hire a plumber to relight their pilot light. People who return their bicycles because they can't adjust it themselves. People who HAVE to get GPS because they can't read a map. The list is endless. My folks had a often talked about 'list of things to know' before any of us kids were allowed to leave home, which meant by age 18.

Yep...too many people don't understand the need to learn the basics...or think they're too good to learn them.
I guess that's good for the companies who profit from their lack of knowledge...

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

That is the single biggest misconception of those who disparage trades people. Most trades require aptitude and the right attitude. To put it more simply, not everyone can wash dishes and it has nothing to do with intelligence or lack of it.

Most trades pay quite well and there are often more opportunities to move up than in the corporate world.

BTW, my class in culinary school started out with 50 students. We graduated 12.

I'll add in that mastering a trade is also a quick path to entrepreneurship. After a few years most guys in the trades I work in can test out to get their contractor's license and break out on their own. Not saying they all do but it's there for them.

 

[DrPizza]

BTW, my class in culinary school started out with 50 students. We graduated 12.

I'm often amazed at what a chef must have to do in a busy restaurant. Some time, I'd like to just tag along with a chef for a few hours during a busy dinner rush & see how they juggle everything. I work with just one product - pizza, (plus wings and subs) and to think about turning out that volume, but with a wide variety of products - different temperatures and different cooking times - just amazes me.

 

[Terzo]

We had guys wash out of the apprenticeship all the time. It's hard dirty work, and contrary to what slayer seems to think, not everyone can do it.

Hell, I've done only basic manual labor and I know I'm not cut out for it. While I haven't done anything complicated (soldering is probably the most technical thing I've had to do) I'm just too slow at it. When you're paid by the job rather than the hour, you want to work fast, and I was always too slow. It was fine for a summer job but I probably wouldn't last one season in construction.

Yep. People who HAVE to hire a plumber to relight their pilot light. People who return their bicycles because they can't adjust it themselves. People who HAVE to get GPS because they can't read a map. The list is endless. My folks had a often talked about 'list of things to know' before any of us kids were allowed to leave home, which meant by age 18.

So did they teach you or did you have to learn on your own? While it seems like a lot of things you can learn by "just doing it" (car stuff comes to mind), I wouldn't want to learn the hard way with certain areas, such as plumbing (with my luck I'd probably cause some flooding).

 

[BoomerD]

Hell, I've done only basic manual labor and I know I'm not cut out for it. While I haven't done anything complicated (soldering is probably the most technical thing I've had to do) I'm just too slow at it. When you're paid by the job rather than the hour, you want to work fast, and I was always too slow. It was fine for a summer job but I probably wouldn't last one season in construction.



So did they teach you or did you have to learn on your own? While it seems like a lot of things you can learn by "just doing it" (car stuff comes to mind), I wouldn't want to learn the hard way with certain areas, such as plumbing (with my luck I'd probably cause some flooding).

Most of these kinds of things you can only learn by doing them. You can read all the books you want about repairing cars, fixing electrical or plumbing...but until you actually get dirty, it's all just theory.

 

[marvdmartian]

Another part of the problem is that there's an ever increasing split between the educated/trained people, and those who fill the unskilled labor sector (flippin' burgers, etc).

Those blue collar workers actually used to fill a significant part of US society, and were the backbone of US industry. It only takes a handful of engineers or draftsmen to design a building, bridge or power plant, but it takes many more skilled laborers to build it, and run it.

Seems that our society has become one where you either go to school to get your degree, or you're stuck flipping burgers......and people wonder why the middle class is disappearing. I wonder how much of that comes about because people associate getting their degree with being able to earn a higher wage, sooner in life?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Hell, I've done only basic manual labor and I know I'm not cut out for it. While I haven't done anything complicated (soldering is probably the most technical thing I've had to do) I'm just too slow at it. When you're paid by the job rather than the hour, you want to work fast, and I was always too slow. It was fine for a summer job but I probably wouldn't last one season in construction.



So did they teach you or did you have to learn on your own? While it seems like a lot of things you can learn by "just doing it" (car stuff comes to mind), I wouldn't want to learn the hard way with certain areas, such as plumbing (with my luck I'd probably cause some flooding).

We learned by being taught and doing it ourselves. We were encouraged to do things on our own as long as we didn't make a "mess."
The thing was, almost all of the adults when I grew up had that attitude. I learned something about woodworking from a neighbor, welding from another and, mechanics from still another. Learning about hand tools was a given. A grown adult who couldn't change a tire/oil/spark plug would have been laughed at.

 

[ichy]

Some things have become more complicated over the years. Modern cars aren't nearly as simple to work on as they were in the 1960s. With other things it just seems sensible to hire a skilled individual. Last year I needed to get my house's hot water heater replaced. I probably could have done it myself, but when you're messing around with gas and a device that vents carbon monoxide I think it's worth spending a bit more money to have it installed by a professional.

 

[Terzo]

Most of these kinds of things you can only learn by doing them. You can read all the books you want about repairing cars, fixing electrical or plumbing...but until you actually get dirty, it's all just theory.

So basically, until someone has a need to fix something, it's not unreasonable for them to not to know how to do it, right?

Then, if something brakes, they have to consider whether to pay someone else to fix it, or to spend the time doing some basic research, gathering any needed materials, and doing the fix themselves. Sure, if you have to do similar repairs in the future you'll probably come out ahead, but at the present saving the time and paying someone else to do it is an attractive option.

Plus, if you do it yourself and make a mistake somewhere that's more time (and potentially money) to sink into the project. If you've hired someone else then they can be held responsible if something goes wrong. The above especially applies if you live in an apartment, where management would rather have professionals fix issues as opposed to their residents destroying the building.

In short, while I respect and envy someone who can do all sorts of repairs, I think it's unrealistic to expect the general population to be so capable. Plus, if every John and Jane could do their own home repairs wouldn't that take away jobs from professionals?

We learned by being taught and doing it ourselves. We were encouraged to do things on our own as long as we didn't make a "mess."
The thing was, almost all of the adults when I grew up had that attitude. I learned something about woodworking from a neighbor, welding from another and, mechanics from still another. Learning about hand tools was a given. A grown adult who couldn't change a tire/oil/spark plug would have been laughed at.

I probably could've learned a lot from my grandpa, but in elementary school I wasn't so receptive to the idea of spending summer vacation working up in NY away from my family. Unfortunately, he died when I was in middle school. Looking back, I wish I had done that for at least one summer. Too late now.

 

[AMCRambler]

It was a negative generalization. It wasn't completely untrue but it also doesn't reflect my experiences.



Every jobsite I've been on has been an 8-5, 7-4, type situation. The guys who put in the LONG hours are the managers and business owners because they have to wrap the day and prep for the next. (Me) Otherwise it's not that bad. It's marginally true that skilled labor is available at the whim of the economy but that's true of any occupation.

My point is that your brain has more to do with your success than your education. Something he seems to have missed.

Sounds like a union job to me. You in a union?

 

[slayer202]

You couldn't last one day in my kitchen.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. There's a reason people don't want those jobs, and it has nothing to do with talent or ability. It's about work ethic and how much shit you can put up with for little pay. It's not that people can't do it, they don't want to, and they're right to feel that way. Why would I want to bust my ass with little to show for it? The old school macho hard work ethic is for chumps

 

[IceBergSLiM]

quit bitching and star paid or subsidized training programs. end of story.

 

[Zeze]

Mike Rowe, cute words from a person that went to an acting school majoring in drama.

His story is endearing, but lacks actual substance.

 

[slayer202]

Yep. People who HAVE to hire a plumber to relight their pilot light. People who return their bicycles because they can't adjust it themselves. People who HAVE to get GPS because they can't read a map. The list is endless. My folks had a often talked about 'list of things to know' before any of us kids were allowed to leave home, which meant by age 18.

Really, who cares? There are more important things to worry about. Convenience is a big part of it. It's not 1940 anymore, the world has changed...

Mike Rowe, cute words from a person that went to an acting school majoring in drama.

His story is endearing, but lacks actual substance.

sad that zeze is one of the few to realize this

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Some people arn't cut out for skilled labor. For some people its just easier to get a degree than to work as a plumber.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Sounds like a union job to me. You in a union?

Nope. Some of the other trades are but that's not how the hours get set. What I posted are the hours that most contractors here keep their job sites open.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Nope. Some of the other trades are but that's not how the hours get set. What I posted are the hours that most contractors here keep their job sites open.

Generally the same hours here unless a project is behind schedule or a retail/restaurant project where time is literally money.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm skilled labor and I cant get a job.
They keep sending all my work to India and Korea.

Now I'm going back to school to get a different career.

 

[KGB]

Some of the dumbest people I've ever met were college graduates.

 

[JS80]

What's the point of his speech? The more people go into white collar sector, it benefits blue collar more. What kind of douche looks down anyway? Who gives a fuck.

 

[Aikouka]

I think you may have misinterpreted my statement. I'm referring to the people who can't do trivial things around their house - basic skill sets that the majority of the population had 30 years ago. People who HAVE to hire a carpenter to hang a book shelf. People who HAVE to hire an electrician to change a bad switch. People who HAVE to hire a plumber for a leaky faucet. So many people are incapable of even trying to learn a simple skill.

It makes me wonder if it might boil down to the thought of failing. They might have absolutely no knowledge of how to do it, and worry that their screw up (while following directions) may end up costing them more money in the end.

 

[Zeze]

Some of the dumbest people I've ever met were college graduates.

I'm assuming you didn't go to college so you're mad and make a sweeping generalization about a certain group?