Mike Rowe talks about lack of skilled labor

[SunnyD]

Repost of a P&N thread.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I worked the trades for 30 years. Everything you say is true...it's boom or bust. You're either working so many hours you don't have time to enjoy the money you're making...or you can't find a job at all...rarely any in-between.

Yes, hard physical labor takes a severe toll on the body. No getting around it, and it's usually dirty work...but it's honest dirt.

Most trades will have you working outside, in all kinds of weather. Sometimes it's not too bad, but IF you work in the winter...it can be cold and snowy...and the summers can be unbearably hot.

I don't think there have been many times when I thought some one "looked down" on me because of my trade. One time, we were in a small town because of the work, and a neighbor called me "construction trash."
"Boo-hoo, I told him. I'll match W-2's with you any day. You have hurt my feeling so bad I'm gonna cry all the way to the bank on payday."
I was making more than 3 times as much money as he did...and I had great benefits...he had none.
I traveled a LOT. That's probably the biggest drawback for me. Not that I don't enjoy traveling, but it was hard on my family. Either I left them behind and MAYBE saw them on the weekend...or every few months, or else I took them with me...and the kids changed schools at least once per year...sometimes more.

Still, I LOVED what I did, in spite of all the drawbacks...I worked outside, I helped build some VERY big projects...it's nice to drive by and say, "I helped build that," and I was damned good at what I did.

Are the trades for everyone? Fuck no...but then again, college and office work isn't for everyone.

What a dick. :thumbsdown:

I lived in an apartment in the Los Angeles area many years ago and the guy next door was a welder by trade. He was a nice guy, mid 30s, single...biggest racist you ever met though and not afraid to voice those opinions. He had a kick ass home stereo (he must have had tens of thousands of dollars in that setup) and bought an old Chevelle that was in very nice condition, tore it all apart and made it mint, welded in new floor panels, replaced a bunch of parts that were less than perfect.

I have a lot of respect for people who can do things like that. I'm pretty skilled with woodworking and home improvement jobs, auto/motorcycle repair etc. I'd love to be able to weld and machine parts. Metal working is really cool.

 

[Genx87]

I have a feeling this line of thinking will become more prevalent as the cost of education outweighs its benefit. There will be a larger demand for this type of labor and with that more money and benefits. Our "higher education" mentality has become nothing but a marketing campaign for Universities willing to sell worthless degree's for tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[lxskllr]

Also, the advent of every job suddenly requiring 4 year degrees for the most trivial of stuff. I've seen jobs for receptionists paying 10.00 an hour and requiring a 4 year degree.

I'd like to get into IT, but everyone wants you to pay your bribe to the local learning institution. There's no reason entry level IT can't work like an apprenticeship program. This shit isn't particle physics or anything. A company would be lucky to have me because I actually give a shit, as opposed to many who pay their money, and expect to coast through a sweet paycheck.

I was a god on the construction site. I could pretty much do what I wanted, and everyone was there to help me. That's the closest to appreciation I ever got for my work. Property jobs sucked. Rural areas weren't bad, but a lot of times you had to deal with suburban trash who thought a little more of their house, and shitty 1/2 acre lot than they should have.

 

[Exterous]

http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html

Eesh - I remember that episode - one of the most uncomfortable things I have ever watched. Props to him for doing it!

Also, the advent of every job suddenly requiring 4 year degrees for the most trivial of stuff. I've seen jobs for receptionists paying 10.00 an hour and requiring a 4 year degree.

I see that a lot. Most places don't even care what the degree was in just that you have one.

It is very unfortunate how skilled trades are viewed. I remember in High School we looked at the people not going to college as 'unfortunate' and - to be honest - I did look down on them a bit. But I wasn't alone - that was the culture that prevaded the school. If you didn't go to college you and/or your parents did something wrong somewhere along the line. Now I know better but I am willing to bet that stigma is still there despite the growing need for skilled labor

 

[Gibson486]

Yeah, everything is not about higher education, but even higher education. Look at entry level jobs...they are starting to want masters. For entry level, how does a masters make you more qualified than a bachelors? So, he went to school for 2 more years to get a "more in depth" look at what his major has. So what? There is still those tools that you need to learn that school never teaches you. School does not teach you how to write a driver for hardware, how to write code for a DSP, how to design a mixed signal circuit board with EMI in mind or how aeration relates to control design. That is what industry wants, and they seem to think that a higher education degree means they know it. Now, we have people getting masters to just get masters. Furthering you education to an even higher degree should be something you want to do after reflection while working in industry. Now we have people getting MBAs without experience at all. What is the point? People with higher degrees should be able to come out and give experiences that fit their industry. Instead, they simply spit out stuff from a text book with no thought or idea as to why it really happens. Yeah, so now we are left with, "This should fix the economy because it fits the equation" or "you can go right to a manager position because you have a PhD even though the people below you will have a better grasp of what is actually going on".

 

[FDF12389]

I have a feeling this line of thinking will become more prevalent as the cost of education outweighs its benefit. There will be a larger demand for this type of labor and with that more money and benefits. Our "higher education" mentality has become nothing but a marketing campaign for Universities willing to sell worthless degree's for tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Yea but that money buys me instant access to a corner office and sectary right?

 

[waggy]

I'd like to get into IT, but everyone wants you to pay your bribe to the local learning institution. There's no reason entry level IT can't work like an apprenticeship program. This shit isn't particle physics or anything. A company would be lucky to have me because I actually give a shit, as opposed to many who pay their money, and expect to coast through a sweet paycheck.

lol. I was reading the ad's in the local paper (was looking for garage sales and auctions) there was a ad for a "computer operator" witch is as most know a entry level basic job. nothing more then swapping tapes, running jobs and printing shit. nothing major at all.

they wanted a 4yr IT degree and pay was $10 an hr. Sad part it was not the only one.

so a person is to go to college 4 years spend $100k on a education to get a $10 hr job? something anyone with a high school diploma (witch in the 90's is all they asked for..maybe a A+ cert) can do?

it just blew my mind.

 

[Imp]

Yeah, everything is not about higher education, but even higher education. Look at entry level jobs...they are starting to want masters. For entry level, how does a masters make you more qualified than a bachelors?

Now we have people getting MBAs without experience at all. What is the point? People with higher degrees should be able to come out and give experiences that fit their industry. Instead, they simply spit out stuff from a text book with no thought or idea as to why it really happens.

Probably HR just trying to make it easier to trim the number of resumes they have to process.

Another idea may be to only take the ones that appear (key word) more committed to the field. This is bullshit as it just means the person has more money, or doesn't mind taking on more loans.

 

[DrPizza]

There are problems with the trades.

- The work is unsteady.

This is both true and untrue at the same time. In some of the trades, it's more true than in others. But sometimes, it depends on your seniority. If you're a welder working for a large manufacturer, during your first 5-10 years, you may get laid off once in a while. But, after you've gotten a lot of experience, seniority, and have been with the same company for a decade or longer, layoffs are much less common.

Also, as far as "steady" - look how many people in non-blue collar jobs have been laid off in this country during the past couple of years...

If you're an independent contractor, it depends a bit on what type of work you're doing. A licensed plumber may find himself working a lot of smaller jobs, instead of a few large jobs. But, people are always going to need plumbers and eelctricians for their houses. When your toilet backs up, or a pipe breaks in your house, furnace or A/C stops working, you're not going to say "the economy is bad, therefore I'll wait to get a repair."

And, I'd also like to add that it's amazing how much more our society is growing dependent on some of these "skilled" workers. A real plumber's or electrician's skills are going underutilized when they do incredibly simple jobs such as installing a ceiling fan or replacing a switch. Over the years, I've grown less and less impressed with people who consider themselves "educated" because they have a 4 year college degree, but their skill set is so narrow that they're incompetent in almost everything else.

 

[Gibson486]

This is both true and untrue at the same time. In some of the trades, it's more true than in others. But sometimes, it depends on your seniority. If you're a welder working for a large manufacturer, during your first 5-10 years, you may get laid off once in a while. But, after you've gotten a lot of experience, seniority, and have been with the same company for a decade or longer, layoffs are much less common.

Also, as far as "steady" - look how many people in non-blue collar jobs have been laid off in this country during the past couple of years...

If you're an independent contractor, it depends a bit on what type of work you're doing. A licensed plumber may find himself working a lot of smaller jobs, instead of a few large jobs. But, people are always going to need plumbers and eelctricians for their houses. When your toilet backs up, or a pipe breaks in your house, furnace or A/C stops working, you're not going to say "the economy is bad, therefore I'll wait to get a repair."

And, I'd also like to add that it's amazing how much more our society is growing dependent on some of these "skilled" workers. A real plumber's or electrician's skills are going underutilized when they do incredibly simple jobs such as installing a ceiling fan or replacing a switch. Over the years, I've grown less and less impressed with people who consider themselves "educated" because they have a 4 year college degree, but their skill set is so narrow that they're incompetent in almost everything else.

That is how the industry goes now. You find one thing, you excel at it, you make money on it. Find something you do not know? Give it to someone else...

 

[LordMorpheus]

I think that you will convince people to skip college and learn a trade when you go to an upper middle class neighborhood and find an even split in homeowners between white and blue collar.

That said, I'd love to see that happen, but I'm not going to rag on people for getting meaningless 4 year degrees until the income gap between college educated and non college educated gets smaller.

 

[fatpat268]

Also, the advent of every job suddenly requiring 4 year degrees for the most trivial of stuff. I've seen jobs for receptionists paying 10.00 an hour and requiring a 4 year degree.

Yea... and this is one (but not the only) reasons why the job market is so bad. Employers are not willing to risk on potentially unqualified people, and people simply don't have the skills. There's a large amount of jobs listed every day that requires a 4 year degree or something like 5 years of experience... and quite frankly that's not realistic for a lot of people. And most of these jobs are truly entry level $8-12 an hour jobs.

And it's an easy cop out to say that if people are struggling to get a job to go to a trade school and learn a trade, but that costs a good chunk of money too. There used to be a time where employers tried to recruit unqualified people and pay for their training, and you just don't quite see that anymore.

 

[ShawnD1]

There are problems with the trades.

The lifestyle sucking so much ass is why trades pay so well. My dad did shit jobs for big money for many years and he decided to go back to school just so work wasn't as hard.

I only had to do one summer of hard work to decide it wasn't the thing for me. The pay is twice as much but having to work out in the sun in August is brutal.

 

[Alienwho]

Skilled trades are so undervalued in our society. I know way to many people who have all kinds of worthless degrees or even "worthwhile" degrees like business that can't make more than $10 on any little job they can find. The problem is these people don't have any real SKILLS. My wife is in a trade, dental hygiene, and she started making $30/hr the day she graduated at age 20. She went to college for 2.5 years but didn't get a bachelors or anything. I think she got an associates but the whole reason for going was to get her hygiene license.

I have a masters degree but I feel like I have a ton of hard trade-like skills which is why I've never had a problem finding a job. Do I feel like my college education has given me a really broad well rounded education? YES absolutely! If I had to choose to lose my college education or my skills I think the answer is obvious. The education just supplements my hard skills.

Today a high school diploma is less than worthless. A bachelors degree is worth less than a high school diploma 40 years ago. A masters degree is worth slightly more.

I mean why do you think these teenage iphone jailbreak hackers are getting such sweet job offers? They've got skills. They're self driven. They read and figure things out on their own and don't need a teacher to hold them back and push them in the wrong direction.

 

[slayer202]

The problem with these "skills" is that anyone can do them with a little bit of learning, and the pay ceilings are low without many options to advance. As worthless as a college degree may be, if you get in the right position you have room to grow. Of course there are way too many people trying to do that now, and the system is mostly bullshit. At the end of the day you have to work for the man and probably not make as much as you want, or you make an opportunity for yourself. The end result is death either way, so live it up or save away something for your future generations.

 

[gothamhunter]

Our city dump had a position open where you sat there and weighed in the vehicles coming in dumping stuff.

Pay was $18/hour.

 

[Regs]

College is the number one reason for under-employment in this country.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The problem with these "skills" is that anyone can do them with a little bit of learning, and the pay ceilings are low without many options to advance. As worthless as a college degree may be, if you get in the right position you have room to grow. Of course there are way too many people trying to do that now, and the system is mostly bullshit. At the end of the day you have to work for the man and probably not make as much as you want, or you make an opportunity for yourself. The end result is death either way, so live it up or save away something for your future generations.

That is the single biggest misconception of those who disparage trades people. Most trades require aptitude and the right attitude. To put it more simply, not everyone can wash dishes and it has nothing to do with intelligence or lack of it.

Most trades pay quite well and there are often more opportunities to move up than in the corporate world.

BTW, my class in culinary school started out with 50 students. We graduated 12.

 

[slayer202]

Whatever makes you feel better

 

[Specop 007]

n/m

 

[GTaudiophile]

I was watching German news the other day. Around August 1 is when the "Azubis" start the practical side of their vocational training.

See, in Germany it goes basically like this:

1) At the end of the 4th or 6th grade, a decision made mostly by your elementary teacher(s) based on your 4-6-year performance history, tracks you into either a college-prep track (Gymnasium) or a vocational track (Realschule/Hauptschule).

2) From about grade 5 (or 7) until grade 10, you take traditional "high school" classes with a vocational slant.

3) Based on your grades following grade 10, you then apply to be an apprentice, almost like applying for a job. If successful, you are accepted into the program, get paid, and begin your vocational training alongside the theoretical work at school.

4) If your apprenticeship goes well, the idea is that you will get a full-time job with the company.

This system has existed in various forms since the Middle Ages and is the backbone of Germany's export economy.

Anyway, back the news report I heard the other day: Germany is short by some 60,000 positions in filling the open apprenticeships this year. Not enough Germans are graduating high school with the marks to get into the apprenticeship programs.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Whatever makes you feel better

You couldn't last one day in my kitchen.

 

[Specop 007]

The problem with these "skills" is that anyone can do them with a little bit of learning, and the pay ceilings are low without many options to advance. As worthless as a college degree may be, if you get in the right position you have room to grow. Of course there are way too many people trying to do that now, and the system is mostly bullshit. At the end of the day you have to work for the man and probably not make as much as you want, or you make an opportunity for yourself. The end result is death either way, so live it up or save away something for your future generations.

When you've done more than a part time internship you can weigh in on the subject.

Until then shut the hell up. Grown folks are talking.

 

[DrPizza]

That is how the industry goes now. You find one thing, you excel at it, you make money on it. Find something you do not know? Give it to someone else...

I think you may have misinterpreted my statement. I'm referring to the people who can't do trivial things around their house - basic skill sets that the majority of the population had 30 years ago. People who HAVE to hire a carpenter to hang a book shelf. People who HAVE to hire an electrician to change a bad switch. People who HAVE to hire a plumber for a leaky faucet. So many people are incapable of even trying to learn a simple skill.