Mexican shot dead while throwing rocks at Border guards

[Narmer]

I have no information at all about whether the kid was a drug smuggler or not.. Even if he were to celebrate his death is barbaric. Not weeping over it is certainly one thing... some people do not deserve tears... but to openly rejoice is another entirely.

Just because one is a criminal is no reason they have to be killed either... Though as I have probably made clear I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty and strongly support prevention of crime, not punishment. There is no reason this situation had to occur other than your administration over the last few decades has been entirely inept at allowing it to spiral into the current hell.

You are the worst pacifist I've ever seen on this board. Animals die, people die. Every day. Do you weep for each and every one?

 

[palehorse]

I have no information at all about whether the kid was a drug smuggler or not.. Even if he were to celebrate his death is barbaric. Not weeping over it is certainly one thing... some people do not deserve tears... but to openly rejoice is another entirely.

Just because one is a criminal is no reason they have to be killed either... Though as I have probably made clear I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty and strongly support prevention of crime, not punishment. There is no reason this situation had to occur other than your administration over the last few decades has been entirely inept at allowing it to spiral into the current hell.

You see, that's where we differ. Myself? I believe the death penalty should be used more frequently for felons -- especially violent and repeat felons -- and it should simply involve a bullet to the back of the head immediately after exiting the courtroom.

Unlike you, I also believe every individual is entirely responsible for their own actions. All this pansy shit about blaming society or "the man" is fucking dumb... just plain dumb.

If this kid was the same who is on the most wanted list, then good riddance.

EDIT: I also believe that it is completely OK to celebrate the death of evil men.

 

[dahunan]

my speakers are not working..
DID HE FIRE A WARNING SHOT?

Is he not qualified to carry a gun if his only target in his mind is KILL

 

[Daedalus685]

You are the worst pacifist I've ever seen on this board. Animals die, people die. Every day. Do you weep for each and every one?

I'm not a pacifist. Pacifists avoid violence, I do not support that at all. I abhor the useless death of people when it is simple enough to prevent them from even wanting to cross the border in the first place.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm not a pacifist. Pacifists avoid violence, I do not support that at all. I abhor the useless death of people when it is simple enough to prevent them from even wanting to cross the border in the first place.

I'd say being killed is a strong motivator for not crossing the border.

 

[Patranus]

my speakers are not working..
DID HE FIRE A WARNING SHOT?

Is he not qualified to carry a gun if his only target in his mind is KILL

That is the only objective when you use a gun............

 

[palehorse]

my speakers are not working..
DID HE FIRE A WARNING SHOT?

Is he not qualified to carry a gun if his only target in his mind is KILL

There is no such thing as a "warning shot" for law enforcement in the U.S.

 

[Daedalus685]

You see, that's where we differ. Myself? I believe the death penalty should be used more frequently for felons -- especially violent and repeat felons -- and it should simply involve a bullet to the back of the head immediately after exiting the courtroom.

Unlike you, I also believe every individual is entirely responsible for their own actions. All this pansy shit about blaming society or "the man" is fucking dumb... just plain dumb.

If this kid was the same who is on the most wanted list, then good riddance.

The problem is that this does not need to occur... there seems to be no order at all on your border... I don't wish to argue about the death penalty, my reasons for despising it are more or less based on my philosophy of prevention where possible as opposed to outright moral objection to the death. I also don't find that punishment is a very effective way of deterring a crime.. at any rate..

It is not hard to ensure these folks never enter the country... increase enforcement of employment laws and most of those just looking for work wont come over... you will be left with the smugglers, a population much easier to control with proper officer presence. Though I also think drugs sfould be legal... but never mind that.. You need more guards on the border, and you need to do something to dissuade the droves from coming over.

 

[Daedalus685]

There is no such thing as a "warning shot" for law enforcement in the U.S.

This is true for most every service force I know of. Though I've heard of some of my buddies being trained to go over to Afghanistan to discharge into the air or ground in some situations.

 

[dahunan]

Quote: Originally Posted by dahunan View Post my speakers are not working.. DID HE FIRE A WARNING SHOT? Is he not qualified to carry a gun if his only target in his mind is KILL That is the only objective when you use a gun............

There are far too many psychopaths in this thread...

Scary.. would you just like to sit out there pick them off from a distance out in the desert ... maybe have a PPV Channel setup and we pay to watch the government do daily napalm scorchings of the desert?

Might that fulfill your bloodlust for those you claim no connection to

 

[Narmer]

I'm not a pacifist. Pacifists avoid violence, I do not support that at all. I abhor the useless death of people when it is simple enough to prevent them from even wanting to cross the border in the first place.

Illegals bring crime, drugs, and economic depression. They kill American citizens. This death was not useless. The BP's life was threatened and he responded in kind after giving verbal warnings. Stop getting all high and mighty with us. If somebody was throwing rocks at you, would you stop them by wagging your fingers? No, you stop them with other forceful means available to you.

 

[dahunan]

There is no such thing as a "warning shot" for law enforcement in the U.S.

How far was he from THEIR BORDER

Did he use Spanglish .. English or Spanish when he yelled

"Freeze, or I'll shoot"

 

[Daedalus685]

Illegals bring crime, drugs, and economic depression. They kill American citizens. This death was not useless. The BP's life was threatened and he responded in kind after giving verbal warnings. Stop getting all high and mighty with us. If somebody was throwing rocks at you, would you stop them by wagging your fingers? No, you stop them with other forceful means available to you.

Yes, I would beat the shit out of them.... When on earth did I say I would not?

I certainly would no kill them though.. that is my objection... that he did not deserve to die and that the officer would be charged with murder where I live, not that the boy did not deserve to be arrested by what could be described as 'violent' were he actually throwing rocks.

The point is that if you actually enforced employment laws the illegals would not come but for the odd few bringing drugs.. then you would be dealing with ONE issue.

 

[palehorse]

This is true for most every service force I know of. Though I've heard of some of my buddies being trained to go over to Afghanistan to discharge into the air or ground in some situations.

Yep... which is why I was very specific with what I wrote.

The policies on the use of warning shots in war zones changes too often to keep up with. I've personally seen the ROE change too many times to count...

 

[Daedalus685]

I'd say being killed is a strong motivator for not crossing the border.

It really isn't... not unless you start killing an appreciable percentage of folks.. How many come across in a day? A better idea woudl be to actually stop hiring them and removing their impact on the economy...

You could make the most well guarded militarized border in teh world and if they still ahve a reason to come over (money generally, so long as it is more than they get at home) they will find a way.

Why spend all that time, and kill so many folks when you can simply force employers to hire US citizens for these jobs... If they are actually affecting the economy and unemployment rate there should be plenty of folks willing to work these jobs.

 

[Daedalus685]

Yep... which is why I was very specific with what I wrote.

The policies on the use of warning shots in war zones changes too often to keep up with. I've personally seen the ROE change too many times to count...

Heh, the infantry on base here complain how the ROE change every week or so... not only a US problem.

 

[Patranus]

How far was he from THEIR BORDER

Did he use Spanglish .. English or Spanish when he yelled

"Freeze, or I'll shoot"

Oh so now we have to make sure that we warn them in english and spanish while being assaulted with a deadly weapon.

Whats next, when a Chinese person rapes a white person because they white person didn't say no in both english and Chinese it isn't rape?

 

[Daedalus685]

Oh so now we have to make sure that we warn them in english and spanish while being assaulted with a deadly weapon.

Whats next, when a Chinese person rapes a white person because they white person didn't say no in both english and Chinese it isn't rape?

I'd strangely have to agree that gun pointing and loud gibberish in any language should be enough to understand "Stop doing whatever you are doing".

But what is it with everyone using assault on women and wives as an example... Does that really happen that often down there?

 

[flavio]

Perhaps not how it was reported.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/10/mexico-us-tensions-video-boy-shot

...

 

[DAGTA]

if the border guard had started picking up rocks and throwing them and one of them hit the teenager in the head and killed him, what would the whiners in this thread be saying?

 

[Daedalus685]

if the border guard had started picking up rocks and throwing them and one of them hit the teenager in the head and killed him, what would the whiners in this thread be saying?

That he acted like a child but responded with appropriate force... also perhaps that he should be pitching for the Jays.

 

[DAGTA]

That he acted like a child but responded with appropriate force... also perhaps that he should be pitching for the Jays.

So either way, he can't win with you. He should do nothing and allow the border to be invaded?

 

[Daedalus685]

So either way, he can't win with you. He should do nothing and allow the border to be invaded?

/facepalm

How is what I said negative, and how on earth are you guys still fixated on the kill or do nothing nonsense? Other than of course who would want to pitch for the jays...

If someone who is an officer of the law picked up a rock to throw how would he not look like an unprofessional child? But that is a good bit better than being a murderer... Perhaps I should say looks like he was untrained (he should not have to pick up rocks, he should have some sort of equipment as well)

To add, at least we are up to three options now... almost as much as a crow is capable of understanding.

 

[DAGTA]

/facepalm

How is what I said negative, and how on earth are you guys still fixated on the kill or do nothing nonsense? Other than of course who would want to pitch for the jays...

If someone who is an officer of the law picked up a rock to throw how would he not look like an unprofessional child? But that is a good bit better than being a murderer... Perhaps I should say looks like he was untrained (he should not have to pick up rocks, he should have some sort of equipment as well)

So he can't use his gun (too much force), he can't use the same force (throw a rock), what would you suggest he do? Rush a group throwing rocks at him and try to hold them all on the ground... forever?

Should he be given a paintball gun so the Mexican gov't can continue to laugh at the border?

I don't celebrate this death but perhaps it will lead to some people taking the border more seriously.

 

[Daedalus685]

So he can't use his gun (too much force), he can't use the same force (throw a rock), what would you suggest he do? Rush a group throwing rocks at him and try to hold them all on the ground... forever?

Should he be given a paintball gun so the Mexican gov't can continue to laugh at the border?

I don't celebrate this death but perhaps it will lead to some people taking the border more seriously.

I didn't say he can't throw a rock!!

I said he woudl look like a child... but that it would be appropriate force... If your BP officers are so unprepared that they woudl think that a rock is better than the equipment they have... get them more gear!!!

Though funny you mention a paint ball gun.. rubber bullets/bean bags might not be a bad idea at all.