#MeToo and Time Travel

[Starbuck1975]

As a Mexican I doubt Ricardo Montalban would have supported the Republicans, and Frank Loesser was extremely liberal in his ideology.

I also doubt Ricardo Montbalban, a man who built his career on exuding what was at the the time considered an exotic machismo, would embrace the notion of toxic masulinity.

Only in your reading of this is it playful. The official lyrics call the male role 'The Wolf' and the female role 'The Mouse'. The very lyrics sheet set it up as predatory.

Intepreting it as anything but playful is looking for a reason to be outraged.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You seem very unaware of human courtship. Women in modern society are the selectors. Men are the ones that court women, and as such, women are the goal of men. That dynamic fits the wolf and mouse as the mouse is the goal of the wolf.

You are twisting it and seeing the goal is the destruction of the mouse/woman, but, that would be wrong.

You are stretching it pretty far here. The term 'mouse' and 'wolf' are definitely meant to infer a predatory relationship. You are literally trying to turn it around to make the mouse have the power.

Here is a hint, this game is not fun for the mouse.

 

[cytg111]

You are stretching it pretty far here. The term 'mouse' and 'wolf' are definitely meant to infer a predatory relationship. You are literally trying to turn it around to make the mouse have the power.

Here is a hint, this game is not fun for the mouse.

Its like that thing abstract art is it not? Whatever story you take away from it is just that, your own story. No ones else's business..

 

[SMOGZINN]

Its like that thing abstract art is it not? Whatever story you take away from it is just that, your own story. No ones else's business..

Indeed, and like abstract art we should discuss and debate our interpretations of it. It is really the purpose of such art.

 

[cytg111]

Indeed, and like abstract art we should discuss and debate our interpretations of it. It is really the purpose of such art.

And I would be a bastard for telling you that your interpretation is wrong.

 

[SMOGZINN]

And I would be a bastard for telling you that your interpretation is wrong.

I would agree. I've tried not to claim that any interpretation is wrong, but to advocate why I think mine is a valid interpretation, and to explain why it would be problematic. It is realibrad who keeps trying to claim that my interpretation is wrong and only his is right.

 

[cytg111]

I would agree. I've tried not to claim that any interpretation is wrong, but to advocate why I think mine is a valid interpretation, and to explain why it would be problematic. It is realibrad who keeps trying to claim that my interpretation is wrong and only his is right.

(that was what I was going for)..

 

[realibrad]

You are stretching it pretty far here. The term 'mouse' and 'wolf' are definitely meant to infer a predatory relationship. You are literally trying to turn it around to make the mouse have the power.

Here is a hint, this game is not fun for the mouse.

Here is a hint, many women like being pursued.

The predatory relationship comes from the fact that men pursue and try to win over women. Women on the other hand are the selectors. In terms of human sexuality, this is one of the areas where we differ from other apes.

So, the analogy of a wolf and a mouse is somewhat the same when viewed as a being pursuing something it seeks. There are many female songs that also talk about seeking men in the same animalistic manner. Further, there are far more songs by women that talk about being pursued in a positive way.

 

[SMOGZINN]

(that was what I was going for)..

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I must be feeling defensive in this thread.

 

[realibrad]

I would agree. I've tried not to claim that any interpretation is wrong, but to advocate why I think mine is a valid interpretation, and to explain why it would be problematic. It is realibrad who keeps trying to claim that my interpretation is wrong and only his is right.

Not all interpretations are equally valid. There is ambiguity, but, that does not mean there are an infinite number of equally valid views on this song.

For example, it would be incorrect to say that his goal was to keep her from going home so a friend could steal her PS4.

I am saying that the intent of the song was not one that should be problematic. If you want to believe it is, then you have to ignore the intent of the song and twist what is written.

 

[cytg111]

Not all interpretations are equally valid. There is ambiguity, but, that does not mean there are an infinite number of equally valid views on this song.

For example, it would be incorrect to say that his goal was to keep her from going home so a friend could steal her PS4.

I am saying that the intent of the song was not one that should be problematic. If you want to believe it is, then you have to ignore the intent of the song and twist what is written.

As the young kids say :

 

[pmv]

Find the posts in this thread by the following.

pmv
zinfamous
perknose
nakedfrog
victorian gray
smogzinn

So, if you did look through the thread, you did a shit job of it.

Hey, I specifically said I _didn't_ want the song-writer's body dug up and displayed in a cage over a major thoroughfare. How much more reasonable can I be?

Also you seem to miss the point. You talk about the pleasure in ambiguity and game-playing etc, while ignoring the point that such game-playing takes place in a context, and it's that context which is what is at issue.

If one puts the most charitable possible interpretation in it and assumes the woman is fully willingly playing 'the game' (which, from what I've recently read, would be far more believable in some performances of it than in others)...then it's an account, without any ironic distance, of conservative people embodying then dominant atttitudes. Attitudes which I don't care for (and, which I think is a racing certainty, many people didn't like at the time).

I don't care for the attitudes embodied in the song, ergo I don't care for the song (given that I don't especially like it as a tune either). It's a conservative song, I'm not a conservative. I'm not saying the state should destroy all records of it. Not convinced you can insist I must like it, either.

 

[pmv]

Anyway... one more harmless, benign thing the liberals have ruined for everyone.

Liberals' words have that much power? By talking about the song they've 'ruined' it for you?

So you believe that words alone can cause harm, then?

In other contexts you'd call yourself a snowflake for that.

 

[realibrad]

Hey, I specifically said I _didn't_ want the song-writer's body dug up and displayed in a cage over a major thoroughfare. How much more reasonable can I be?

You fell for what they tried to do. The original claim was that it was only conservatives saying there was a problem with the song. He then shifted to saying it was about trying to ban it, but, that is not what he originally said.

Also you seem to miss the point. You talk about the pleasure in ambiguity and game-playing etc, while ignoring the point that such game-playing takes place in a context, and it's that context which is what is at issue.

Yes, some adult things have risks. If you are against the risks, then you are trying to create a very unreasonable world. You are calling for the end of risk, or another way to say it, child proof. Is that really what you want?

If one puts the most charitable possible interpretation in it and assumes the woman is fully willingly playing 'the game' (which, from what I've recently read, would be far more believable in some performances of it than in others)...then it's an account, without any ironic distance, of conservative people embodying then dominant atttitudes. Attitudes which I don't care for (and, which I think is a racing certainty, many people didn't like at the time).

This is strange. You are equating dominance hierarchy with something inappropriate. Can you flesh that out? What is it that you do not like?

I don't care for the attitudes embodied in the song, ergo I don't care for the song (given that I don't especially like it as a tune either). It's a conservative song, I'm not a conservative. I'm not saying the state should destroy all records of it. Not convinced you can insist I must like it, either.

I'm not trying to say you should like it. I'm saying that its wrong to say the song is rapey, which is what others including yourself have done.

 

[realibrad]

Liberals' words have that much power? By talking about the song they've 'ruined' it for you?

So you believe that words alone can cause harm, then?

In other contexts you'd call yourself a snowflake for that.

Equating the song with rape is a hell of a way to ruin a song.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Liberals' words have that much power? By talking about the song they've 'ruined' it for you?

So you believe that words alone can cause harm, then?

In other contexts you'd call yourself a snowflake for that.

Yes, liberals have gone full retard and are ruining things. Their feelings are too precious to be exposed to things like the pronoun "he" when referring to some liberal individuals with xy chromosomes and balls and a dick, movember offends them, and this song. They are ruining society, yes.

 

[realibrad]

Yes, liberals have gone full retard and are ruining things. Their feelings are too precious to be exposed to things like the pronoun "he" when referring to some liberal individuals with xy chromosomes and balls and a dick, movember offends them, and this song. They are ruining society, yes.

What about your side?

Denial of climate change.
Holding back gay marriage.
Undo separation of church and state.

I will not say that the Left has done nothing, but, your side is just as guilty there.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Liberals' words have that much power? By talking about the song they've 'ruined' it for you?

So you believe that words alone can cause harm, then?

In other contexts you'd call yourself a snowflake for that.

I thought they loved the taste of liberal tears? Well that and "the smell of liberal butthurt in the morning" (literally a meme I saw conservatives posting on Facebook, because, well I've pointed out a lot how little self awareness they actually have). Fuck is there anything that conservatives can do that isn't a total complete fucking sham? Fuck your feelings? What, now they can't handle it? Is it because conservatives tend to be older so they need Viagra to get it up, or is it because they have to pretend they're not super into rape?

 

[Viper1j]

Only in your reading of this is it playful. The official lyrics call the male role 'The Wolf' and the female role 'The Mouse'. The very lyrics sheet set it up as predatory.

You do know that Frank Loesser wrote that song as something for he and his wife to sing at parties don't you.

Maybe "Mouse" was a pet name for his wife> I call my girlfriend "kitten" and she loves it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So, Christmas is in about 2 1/2 weeks and then we forget about this again until next year. Just like we did last year, and the year before and the year before and the year before and the year...

 

[sdifox]

it's the same thing with Money For Nothing. It wasn't offensive enough to censor it back in the 80's but it is now. In fact it was banned here in Canada a few years ago.

For the homosexual slur word "F____t". Radio play ban lasted like nine months.

Lol words are censored now? That word was changed to "great person"...

 

[Vic]

What about your side?

Denial of climate change.
Holding back gay marriage.
Undo separation of church and state.

I will not say that the Left has done nothing, but, your side is just as guilty there.

Just?

 

[zinfamous]

It isn't conservatives bitching, it is the anti-Kavanaugh type metoo'ers. More leftist feminist bullshit.

Like I've said here before, liberals are the new conservatives. They've gone stale and are the ones that try and push their version of morality down everyone's throats.

No one listens to tapeworms. Keep on absorbing nutrients that you never earned, and certainly never deserved, you helminthian asshole.

 

[zinfamous]

You seem very unaware of human courtship. Women in modern society are the selectors. Men are the ones that court women, and as such, women are the goal of men. That dynamic fits the wolf and mouse as the mouse is the goal of the wolf.

You are twisting it and seeing the goal is the destruction of the mouse/woman, but, that would be wrong.

You have been attending some bullshit "male power" seminars recently, haven't you? Sponsored by 4Chan moderators, no doubt.

Most literate, adult women would laugh you out of the room trying to spout nonsense like this.

 

[realibrad]

Just?

No, but it gets my point across. They are also far far bigger than a song.