#MeToo and Time Travel

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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,639
136
Find the posts in this thread by the following.

pmv
zinfamous
perknose
nakedfrog
victorian gray
smogzinn

So, if you did look through the thread, you did a shit job of it.

I would not support a ban of the song either. I already said I like the song. It is in my playlist. I've been talking about consent and rape culture in general, and how the reaction to this song is just an acknowledgement of behaviors that are probably not okay in todays society.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,821
15,292
136
I would not support a ban of the song either. I already said I like the song. It is in my playlist. I've been talking about consent and rape culture in general, and how the reaction to this song is just an acknowledgement of behaviors that are probably not okay in todays society.

Which is a quite fair analysis if you ask me!
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,821
15,292
136
Find the posts in this thread by the following.

pmv
zinfamous
perknose
nakedfrog
victorian gray
smogzinn

So, if you did look through the thread, you did a shit job of it.

Who wants to ban the song? Who wants to gag you? Who wants to fascism you into submission you poor thing?
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
4,442
4,136
136
When there are no women, homos will walk the earth..

(A riff on Dawn Of The Dead)
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Who wants to ban the song? Who wants to gag you? Who wants to fascism you into submission you poor thing?

No, you are shifting. You said this "Conservatives are always looking for something to be offended by.. Specially Slow.". To which I said it was actually the liberals in this thread that were saying this song was rapey. You can talk about anything you want, but, you are moving away from your original statement that I disagreed with.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
So having an opinion is his wrongdoing? Get the gist of who is doing the oppression here? (hint : its you).

No. What they did was to say the song was rapey and thus bad. Their criticism of slow was never the issue. Either you are disingenuous or unable to focus.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,821
15,292
136
No, you are shifting. You said this "Conservatives are always looking for something to be offended by.. Specially Slow.". To which I said it was actually the liberals in this thread that were saying this song was rapey. You can talk about anything you want, but, you are moving away from your original statement that I disagreed with.

You got me, I was jabbing at Slow. I thought it was obvious. <- This is what he always does, picks up some lame ass story, posts it here and says LOOK thats all libs!
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
You got me, I was jabbing at Slow. I thought it was obvious. <- This is what he always does, picks up some lame ass story, posts it here and says LOOK thats all libs!

Right, a post in reply to Viper about how the song is actually perfectly fine and anyone that thinks otherwise is being a conservative and just looking to be offended was really a burn to slow.

You can makeup what ever you want, but I think its pretty clear you know you made a mistake and thought it was just slow thinking the song was rapey.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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First world problems. While other countries that we praise are mutilating women genitals, mandatorily making them cover themselves in full at all times.... but... were worried about a Christmas song.

We really are fucked if shit like this is a pressing issue.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,821
15,292
136
Right, a post in reply to Viper about how the song is actually perfectly fine and anyone that thinks otherwise is being a conservative and just looking to be offended was really a burn to slow.

You can makeup what ever you want, but I think its pretty clear you know you made a mistake and thought it was just slow thinking the song was rapey.
Nope.. gods honest truth.. Sorry you cant keep up, doesnt change what it is though.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I would not support a ban of the song either. I already said I like the song. It is in my playlist. I've been talking about consent and rape culture in general, and how the reaction to this song is just an acknowledgement of behaviors that are probably not okay in todays society.
Why target a song from the 1940s when there are contemporary songs in the last 10 years that are far more indicative of the underlying problem?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,570
6,712
126
You're in your bubble and missing the reason this thread exists. There is cause for the offended liberal snowflake stereotype to exist.
Indeed! The cause is conservatives projecting their own behavior on liberals. The science is in on conservatives on average needing to create altered realities to inhabit due to fear more so than liberals have that need. Of course you don't know that because you are the snowflake who can't handle scientific facts. That conservative mentality is defective only in the sense that it has served no survival value since the Pleistocene and has since become an obstacle to human progress and survival and characteristic of conservatives only by degree.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,639
136
Why target a song from the 1940s when there are contemporary songs in the last 10 years that are far more indicative of the underlying problem?

If I had to guess, it would be because most of those other songs are pretty straight forward in their misogyny while this song is an example of the sort of behavior that people don't think about being problematic but actually is. This song can be read as him trying to coerce her into having sex with him by refusing her assistance getting home in dangerous weather.

First world problems. While other countries that we praise are mutilating women genitals, mandatorily making them cover themselves in full at all times.... but... were worried about a Christmas song.

We really are fucked if shit like this is a pressing issue.

That is a kind of weird way to think about this. To me this says our lives are so great that we can focus on these relatively minor things. It sounds to me that the people that are really fucked are the ones that still have to deal with being mutilated.

I have to say, this thread has had a lot less discussion of time travel than I had hoped for.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
If I had to guess, it would be because most of those other songs are pretty straight forward in their misogyny while this song is an example of the sort of behavior that people don't think about being problematic but actually is. This song can be read as him trying to coerce her into having sex with him by refusing her assistance getting home in dangerous weather.



That is a kind of weird way to think about this. To me this says our lives are so great that we can focus on these relatively minor things. It sounds to me that the people that are really fucked are the ones that still have to deal with being mutilated.

I have to say, this thread has had a lot less discussion of time travel than I had hoped for.

Coercion is not the same as warning someone of danger. He did not use threats or force to try and get her to stay. He made it clear that he wanted her to stay. Any reading of coercion is a misreading and is wrong from the actual words.

He is not offering assistance, but, it could be because he thinks the better option is to stay. Why would it be more moral to offer up a worse option to someone?

Lastly, you are assuming he expected sex and would not have respected her staying without having sex. That is 100% on you as there is nowhere in the song that you can get that from other than an assumption.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
Why target a song from the 1940s when there are contemporary songs in the last 10 years that are far more indicative of the underlying problem?
Because those are made under the guise of culture, so it's totally a-okay and socially acceptable to smack a womans ass at anytime.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
If I had to guess, it would be because most of those other songs are pretty straight forward in their misogyny while this song is an example of the sort of behavior that people don't think about being problematic but actually is. This song can be read as him trying to coerce her into having sex with him by refusing her assistance getting home in dangerous weather.
My guess would be that people like Eminem get a pass because they also just happen to support Democrats, while benign songs from the 1940s somehow require in depth analysis for their subtle microaggressions. There is nothing problematic about two consenting adults playfully dancing around having sex.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
4,442
4,136
136
If I had to guess, it would be because most of those other songs are pretty straight forward in their misogyny while this song is an example of the sort of behavior that people don't think about being problematic but actually is. This song can be read as him trying to coerce her into having sex with him by refusing her assistance getting home in dangerous weather.



That is a kind of weird way to think about this. To me this says our lives are so great that we can focus on these relatively minor things. It sounds to me that the people that are really fucked are the ones that still have to deal with being mutilated.

I have to say, this thread has had a lot less discussion of time travel than I had hoped for.


They had to travel back in time to impose 2018 standards on 1940s people.. Sort of like that guy that just got sliced and diced for trying to bring Jesus to the heathens on that island..

Here's another one. They're going after the girl on Little House.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/books/laura-ingalls-wilder-book-award.html

Prestigious Laura Ingalls Wilder Award Renamed Over Racial Insensitivity

1544196288265.jpeg

The American Library Association is dropping Laura Ingalls Wilder’s name from a prestigious children’s literature award in order to distance the honor from what it described as culturally insensitive portrayals in her books.

The decision was made out of a desire to reconcile the award with the organization’s values of “inclusiveness, integrity and respect,” representatives of the association said in a statement on Monday. The award is given out by its children’s division.

“Wilder’s books are a product of her life experiences and perspective as a settler in America’s 1800s,” the association’s president, Jim Neal, and the president of the children’s division, Nina Lindsay, said in the statement. “Her works reflect dated cultural attitudes toward Indigenous people and people of color that contradict modern acceptance, celebration, and understanding of diverse communities.”

Ms. Wilder’s books, particularly the “Little House” series based on her childhood in a settler family, have remained popular since they were first published in the 1930s and 1940s. A hit television show based on the series, “Little House on the Prairie,” helped to reignite interest and usher in a new generation of fans in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

The name change was a result of months of consideration and was approved over the weekend by the board of the Association for Library Service to Children, a division of the library association. The honor, formerly the Laura Ingalls Wilder Award, is now named the Children’s Literature Legacy Award.

The award, distributed to just 23 people over more than six decades, recognizes authors and illustrators whose books have created a lasting contribution to children’s literature.

Wilder herself received the first award in 1954, three years before her death in 1957. It was initially distributed every five years, but its frequency has steadily increased. Since 2016, it has been given annually.

Other winners include the authors Beverly Cleary; Theodor S. Geisel, also known as Dr. Seuss; and E. B. White. This year’s winner, announced in February, was Jacqueline Woodson, the author of “Brown Girl Dreaming” and other books. Despite their popularity, Ms. Wilder’s books contain jarringly prejudicial portrayals of Native Americans and African Americans.

In the 1935 book “Little House on the Prairie,” for example, multiple characters espoused versions of the view that “the only good Indian was a dead Indian.” In one scene, a character describes Native Americans as “wild animals” undeserving of the land they lived on.
“Little Town on the Prairie,” published in 1941, included a description of a minstrel show with “five black-faced men in raggedy-taggedy uniforms” alongside a jolting illustration of the scene.

“There’s this subtle but very clear fear generated throughout the books,” said Debbie Reese, a scholar whose writing and research focus on portrayals of American Indians in children’s literature.

Dr. Reese, who belongs to the Nambe Pueblo tribe in New Mexico, said that the books could be used to educate high school or college students, but were inappropriate for young children.
“People are trying to use them and say, ‘Well, we can explain them,’ and I say: ‘O.K., you’re trying to explain racism to white people. Good for those white kids,’” she said. “But what about the Native and the black kids in the classroom who have to bear with the moment when they’re being denigrated for the benefit of the white kids?”

The American Library Association said that the name change was aimed only at aligning the award with its values, not at limiting access to Wilder’s books. “Updating the award’s name should not be construed as censorship, as we are not demanding that anyone stop reading Wilder’s books, talking about them, or making them available to children,” Mr. Neal and Ms. Lindsay said in the statement. “We hope adults think critically about Wilder’s books and the discussions that can take place around them.”

In recommending that the organization move away from using Wilder’s name for the award, a task force for the children’s division noted last month that the books had been both “deeply meaningful” to some readers and “deeply painful” to others. “Both of these things are true,” it said in a written recommendation, adding that such a move would not demand “that anyone change their personal relationship with or feelings about Wilder’s books.” The task force also said that the books, and Wilder herself, were products of her era and reflected the mostly mainstream perspective of a white woman at the time.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,639
136
Coercion is not the same as warning someone of danger. He did not use threats or force to try and get her to stay. He made it clear that he wanted her to stay. Any reading of coercion is a misreading and is wrong from the actual words.

He is not offering assistance, but, it could be because he thinks the better option is to stay. Why would it be more moral to offer up a worse option to someone?

Lastly, you are assuming he expected sex and would not have respected her staying without having sex. That is 100% on you as there is nowhere in the song that you can get that from other than an assumption.

And that is how these things get swept under the rug. Plausible deniability. We all know what the song is about. We all know what is going on. We just pretend we don't so we don't have to deal with it.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,639
136
They had to travel back in time to impose 2018 standards on 1940s people.. Sort of like that guy that just got sliced and diced for trying to bring Jesus to the heathens on that island..

No one is imposing 2018 standards on 1940's people. We are pointing out the problematic actions depicted in a song being played in 2018. I have heard no talk from anyone about digging up Ricardo Montalban and putting him on trial. I don't think most people even think it should be banned. All anyone I know is saying is that it is worth having a discussion about the implications of the behavior portrayed in the song. It is just being seen as a teaching opportunity.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
And that is how these things get swept under the rug. Plausible deniability. We all know what the song is about. We all know what is going on. We just pretend we don't so we don't have to deal with it.

That is where you are wrong. We don't all believe its about rape. Modern filters have caused people to see it that way, but, your presumption that its inherent to the song is wrong.

There is an equally if not more valid reading that its about someone trying to get a girl to cast off social norms and stay. You want to see it as bad because then it gives you something to fight against. You would rather see something that is not there than see nothing. Its you being risk averse and seeing the lion in the moving grass, rather than just a mouse for a walk.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,639
136
My guess would be that people like Eminem get a pass because they also just happen to support Democrats, while benign songs from the 1940s somehow require in depth analysis for their subtle microaggressions.

As a Mexican I doubt Ricardo Montalban would have supported the Republicans, and Frank Loesser was extremely liberal in his ideology.

There is nothing problematic about two consenting adults playfully dancing around having sex.

Only in your reading of this is it playful. The official lyrics call the male role 'The Wolf' and the female role 'The Mouse'. The very lyrics sheet set it up as predatory.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
As a Mexican I doubt Ricardo Montalban would have supported the Republicans, and Frank Loesser was extremely liberal in his ideology.



Only in your reading of this is it playful. The official lyrics call the male role 'The Wolf' and the female role 'The Mouse'. The very lyrics sheet set it up as predatory.

You seem very unaware of human courtship. Women in modern society are the selectors. Men are the ones that court women, and as such, women are the goal of men. That dynamic fits the wolf and mouse as the mouse is the goal of the wolf.

You are twisting it and seeing the goal is the destruction of the mouse/woman, but, that would be wrong.