#MeToo and Time Travel

[SlowSpyder]

it's the same thing with Money For Nothing. It wasn't offensive enough to censor it back in the 80's but it is now. In fact it was banned here in Canada a few years ago.

Why was that banned? Because the lyrics have the word "f@g"?

 

[BurnItDwn]

This isn't "me too", this is The "WAR ON CHRISTMAS" claims another Victim!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ_gxHgypfc

 

[realibrad]

it's the same thing with Money For Nothing. It wasn't offensive enough to censor it back in the 80's but it is now. In fact it was banned here in Canada a few years ago.

Wait, I thought the song was about how people said modern things was not working, and yet the guy with the earring was a millionaire. I always took it as an old person saying young people were not really working, and them calling the guy names, but, the guy was rich regardless of their opinion.

Are you saying they banned it for the word and not the context?

 

[realibrad]

Looking into it more, it looks like it was banned for radio play. We ban offensive words here in the US on radio unless its paid. I dont see a problem with what Canada did.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Looking into it more, it looks like it was banned for radio play. We ban offensive words here in the US on radio unless its paid. I dont see a problem with what Canada did.

Oddly enough, that song is still played unedited on a classic rock radio station by me.

 

[Zorba]

The nation itself and its expansion depended on the successful genocide of native Americans just as slavery was about having blacks for a workforce. If you think the Natives were not the victims of racism then there's a lot of history to be learned. But both slavery and genocidal expansionism are fundamentally the same in one regard very real and perhaps most important way. It's "us" using "you" to get what "we" want, and what "we" want is more important than "your" life.

That's for another thread I suppose. Outrage over the song isn't on a scale of most anything.

I'm not disagreeing, but Confederate statues were put up for the specific purpose of promoting racism, as had been discussed many times here. No statue of Washington was put up to promote the genocide of Native Americans.

 

[Zorba]

I don't get it. Did the male character do anything besides try to get her to change her mind?

She asks him if he put something in her drink and he doesn't deny it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I'm not disagreeing, but Confederate statues were put up for the specific purpose of promoting racism, as had been discussed many times here. No statue of Washington was put up to promote the genocide of Native Americans.

I don't know if it is that different. Statues of Jefferson Davis weren't erected to promote a superior race or racism in of itself. They were put up as an ode to leaders of the south and their values, one of which happened to be slavery. Likewise, statues of George Washington weren't put up to promote slavery or racism, but as a monument to great Americans of the time that promoted America and related values, which manifest destiny and taking by force can certainly be argued was part of that.

I think taking the monuments and statues down at any rate is stupid. We should promote truth over exceptionalism and romanticism. There were darker days and bright days in our history, taking down statues and monuments of the time doesn't do anything to change history, just erase its lessons. I'd have issue with putting up new confederate statues today, but preserving our history does not promote racism in my opinion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm not disagreeing, but Confederate statues were put up for the specific purpose of promoting racism, as had been discussed many times here. No statue of Washington was put up to promote the genocide of Native Americans.

Of if one was a Confederate, the celebration of an effort of self-determination and heroic individuals who stood for that.

That causes me to ask "what is the difference between my statement and yours in an objective universe" and the answer is "The Confederates lost". In that scenario, slavery would have ended because of technology, but your entire point of reference would be one of "No statue of Lee was put up to promote slavery of blacks", and you would believe it. Instead, Lee would have been a "Founder of a new nation and that's why we honor him".

The reasons Washington and other's monuments remain is because the Europeans were successful in their genocide. My white heritage killed most of those of my Cherokee side. Native Americans lost, "you" won and "you" as the victors determine what the past means.

Me? I have no inclination to dwell over the past, but for it to be buried in justification? That's alternative truth and I don't play that card.

 

[realibrad]

She asks him if he put something in her drink and he doesn't deny it.

I think she was just asking what was in it, in terms of it being a strong alcoholic drink.

 

[Zorba]

I don't know if it is that different. Statues of Jefferson Davis weren't erected to promote a superior race or racism in of itself. They were put up as an ode to leaders of the south and their values, one of which happened to be slavery. Likewise, statues of George Washington weren't put up to promote slavery or racism, but as a monument to great Americans of the time that promoted America and related values, which manifest destiny and taking by force can certainly be argued was part of that.

I think taking the monuments and statues down at any rate is stupid. We should promote truth over exceptionalism and romanticism. There were darker days and bright days in our history, taking down statues and monuments of the time doesn't do anything to change history, just erase its lessons. I'd have issue with putting up new confederate statues today, but preserving our history does not promote racism in my opinion.

You are completely ignoring the actual history of the Confederate statues and where, when, and why they were put up. They weren't all put up to promote contemporary racism, but the vast majority were. That is why the majority were put up during the civil rights movement and the rebirth of the KKK.

But this is way OT, find a thread about statues of you want to continue this.

As for the song, I can see a point, but don't think it should be banned.

 

[Zorba]

Of if one was a Confederate, the celebration of an effort of self-determination and heroic individuals who stood for that.

That causes me to ask "what is the difference between my statement and yours in an objective universe" and the answer is "The Confederates lost". In that scenario, slavery would have ended because of technology, but your entire point of reference would be one of "No statue of Lee was put up to promote slavery of blacks", and you would believe it. Instead, Lee would have been a "Founder of a new nation and that's why we honor him".

The reasons Washington and other's monuments remain is because the Europeans were successful in their genocide. My white heritage killed most of those of my Cherokee side. Native Americans lost, "you" won and "you" as the victors determine what the past means.

Me? I have no inclination to dwell over the past, but for it to be buried in justification? That's alternative truth and I don't play that card.

You are way too smart to play Slows games. I am not generalizing about statues look up the actual history. Celebrating Washington is celebrating the birth of the US and the many good things he did to shape our government, yes those good things came at a cost to others though but the statue to Washington is about the good not the bad.

Building a statue of Davis in a black neighborhood and naming an all black school after Lee in the sixties, paid for by the KKK while trying to intimidate blacks from voting and marching is pure racism and the promotion of racism. Just like putting a statue of Custer in front of a reservation would be fucked up.

If the Confederates won, this would be a different conversation, but they didn't. And no one is celebrating the government they installed or the rights they delivered to the people.

 

[Viper1j]

The issue though, is actually more general. It's about looking at things that occurred, or happened, or in this case, were written before, long before this demographic was even born. And trying to make the past conform to the present or the future.

Where do you draw the line? Should Frosty the Snowman be banned for "temperature shaming"? Because he's not going to last very long on a beach in Miami.

Should Rudolph the red nose reindeer be banned? Because it's insensitive to people with large noses? Wouldn't that be nose shaming?

Somebody needs to place a call to common sense, and tell it that it's vacation time is over.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You are completely ignoring the actual history of the Confederate statues and where, when, and why they were put up. They weren't all put up to promote contemporary racism, but the vast majority were. That is why the majority were put up during the civil rights movement and the rebirth of the KKK.

But this is way OT, find a thread about statues of you want to continue this.

As for the song, I can see a point, but don't think it should be banned.

I was talking about statues and monuments from around the time of the civil war. Something put in in 1966 Alabama is not what I'm talking about.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You are way too smart to play Slows games. I am not generalizing about statues look up the actual history. Celebrating Washington is celebrating the birth of the US and the many good things he did to shape our government, yes those good things came at a cost to others though but the statue to Washington is about the good not the bad.

Building a statue of Davis in a black neighborhood and naming an all black school after Lee in the sixties, paid for by the KKK while trying to intimidate blacks from voting and marching is pure racism and the promotion of racism. Just like putting a statue of Custer in front of a reservation would be fucked up.

If the Confederates won, this would be a different conversation, but they didn't. And no one is celebrating the government they installed or the rights they delivered to the people.

Not playing his game. I am saying that depending on one's frame of reference "good" and "bad" are determined by the history of the victor, where you and I see racism as bad but might have embraced it differently because from day 1 your world might have been shaped to view it that way. Perhaps I should say I'm considering things in a "meta" way, "looking down" from the perspective where having an agenda isn't applicable. I'm not arguing for or against anything at the moment, but I am suggesting that in a given society, perceptions of "right and wrong" are chiefly impacted by local variables, that is one's upbringing, and as a society by a consensus forged by historical events over time.

Getting back to "everyday" perspectives I don't say that I fail to understand your point but if society viewed our genocides as qualitatively the same as slavery then perhaps we wouldn't be so proud and self-important as a people. There are contexts within larger contexts and sometimes I switch too quickly mentally and don't properly communicate when I do so. I'm not arguing against you, offering a different viewpoint which depends on where one chooses to "stand" at the moment. I'm confusing, I get it.

 

[pmv]

It's long been regarded as rather creepy. But the same is true of a lot of older song and movies. Almost everything ages badly when it comes to ethics and politics. More-to-the-point, it's a crap song, just plain irritating.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You are way too smart to play Slows games. I am not generalizing about statues look up the actual history. Celebrating Washington is celebrating the birth of the US and the many good things he did to shape our government, yes those good things came at a cost to others though but the statue to Washington is about the good not the bad.

Building a statue of Davis in a black neighborhood and naming an all black school after Lee in the sixties, paid for by the KKK while trying to intimidate blacks from voting and marching is pure racism and the promotion of racism. Just like putting a statue of Custer in front of a reservation would be fucked up.

If the Confederates won, this would be a different conversation, but they didn't. And no one is celebrating the government they installed or the rights they delivered to the people.

Not playing his game. I am saying that depending on one's frame of reference "good" and "bad" are determined by the history of the victor, where you and I see racism as bad but might have embraced it differently because from day 1 your world might have been shaped to view it that way. Perhaps I should say I'm considering things in a "meta" way, "looking down" from the perspective where having an agenda isn't applicable. I'm not arguing for or against anything at the moment, but I am suggesting that in a given society, perceptions of "right and wrong" are chiefly impacted by local variables, that is one's upbringing, and as a society by a consensus forged by historical events over time.

Getting back to "everyday" perspectives I don't say that I fail to understand your point but if society viewed our genocides as qualitatively the same as slavery then perhaps we wouldn't be so proud and self-important as a people. There are contexts within larger contexts and sometimes I switch too quickly mentally and don't properly communicate when I do so. I'm not arguing against you, offering a different viewpoint which depends on where one chooses to "stand" at the moment. I'm confusing, I get it.

What game am I playing exactly?

 

[HomerJS]

Maybe we need to stop generalizing about changing attitudes. This song is just plain silly.

There was a song I remember as a little kid by Mungo Jerry called "In the summertime". I was too young to remember all the lyrics but remember it was a catchy tune. However there is a verse that gives dating advice that says...

"If her daddy's rich then buy her a meal. If her daddy's poor then do what you feel"

I'd call that kinda problematic today.

 

[shortylickens]

Are you sure the stage mothers aren't white trailer trash Trump lovers? Because that is the typical pageant stage mother demographic from what little I have seen.

Actually I was generalizing. You are correct in that trailer trash moms are turning into horrific Stage Moms at a high rate.
But in the specific case of those 7 year old girls doing Single Lady I'm pretty sure it came from an upper middle class liberal paradise.

 

[shortylickens]

Maybe we need to stop generalizing about changing attitudes. This song is just plain silly.

There was a song I remember as a little kid by Mungo Jerry called "In the summertime". I was too young to remember all the lyrics but remember it was a catchy tune. However there is a verse that gives dating advice that says...

"If her daddy's rich then buy her a meal. If her daddy's poor then do what you feel"

I'd call that kinda problematic today.

Well WE on anandtech might be generalizing, but specific companies and individuals have banned that particular song from use because they believe its oppressive.
I dont think so. BUt they are free to have their beliefs.

 

[VirtualLarry]

(sorry, thought this was posted in OT)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What game am I playing exactly?

I haven't bothered to think about what you are doing in this post. "The Game" as I see it is to selectively edit reality and claim "truth" about something (which may or may not be grounded in contextually significant reality) and ignore or divert when something that is unflattering at best about those your support. That is your stand M.O. "Pay for it" being a good example. Well naturally things are paid for in one way or another, but in the AOC thread you use it for something she supports and use different words like "Build the Wall" without mentioning of true costs of construction and upkeep. In no way does Trump have the Constitutional authority to override the Courts to redefine the Constitution. If you cared about the latter you would have been all over Donnie but you came back with "if legal". Well what genius invented a new interpretation of our Executive, Legislative and Judicial history to justify that? Who do we question? No one because only an idiot would do such a thing or a liar use it, or both.

If Obama had suggested such a thing I'd be all over his shit and the ones supporting him, but he didn't. Bringing up "well he did this instead" is still "instead". So where is your truth and patriotism displayed in support, tacit and implicit, of someone who violates his oath of office to the Consitution? Not Obama, not AOC, not GWB, but the current Officeholder of the Presidency of the United States, right now, today? Now you can show us The Game, or try to skirt your posting history.

 

[Viper1j]

Maybe we need to stop generalizing about changing attitudes. This song is just plain silly.

There was a song I remember as a little kid by Mungo Jerry called "In the summertime". I was too young to remember all the lyrics but remember it was a catchy tune. However there is a verse that gives dating advice that says...

"If her daddy's rich then buy her a meal. If her daddy's poor then do what you feel"

I'd call that kinda problematic today.

Sometimes, silly can be fun.

What ever happened to fun? Cotton candy is silly too, but everyone eats it.

 

[Zorba]

I was talking about statues and monuments from around the time of the civil war. Something put in in 1966 Alabama is not what I'm talking about.

I agree those are different and should be left alone.

 

[Zorba]

What game am I playing exactly?

Based on your other reply, apparently none. I meant the game of ignoring the history of the vast majority of the statues.