Meet my Working Class Roommate

[Blackjack200]

Its obvious to me that your roommate needs someone to talk to and trust.

I actually found myself with a smaller social network by moving for work and I'm thankful I have people I can still confide in, but the number of potential options/quality is pretty slim.

Recently in a survey on loneliness, apparently 1/3rd of people or more actually have zero people to confide in. So when you need a sounding board for all your negative thoughts from someone who will just hear you out and offer some solace or a new perspective.... yea... those people just have to literally hold it in or write in a journal or something until the feelings just go away.... but they aren't getting life advice or anything.

I would listen more to your roommate instead of studying him like some kind of circus side show to poke at.

When he says "I Wish I had someone to talk to like your brother" you have to realize he has ZERO people to confide in. He recognizes when people have a strong bond and is jealous of that. You should hear out some of his problems. You don't even need to offer solutions. Just hear him out. Because you have a larger social network than his you have more social experience. I'm betting he has practically zero.

You say that I should listen to my roommate, but a lot of what I've told you about him I learned by talking to him, including everything I know about his job, everything I know about his family and relationships, and most of the things I know about his hobbies and interests. After work we usually talk quite a bit (although it's not always about deep life stuff, sometimes its just movies or shows or games or something).

I'm sorry that you think I'm studying him like a kind of circus side show. I was offering some observations and also my opinion that in many ways, despite apparent differences in our lives, we share a lot of the same challenges and cope with a lot of the same kinds of problems. I actually think he's a pretty great guy. I can share more about him if people are really interested in hearing it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can think of a few examples of some of those, but, I really mean a few in terms of feelings.

The closest ones are 7,8,9. I think 7 because there are times when in the moment, you cant sit and mull over because action is required. Go back to the shooting situation, and my mind was playing out possible situations and outcomes and what I could do. I tried to think of things that I thought were reasonable possibilities and what I might be able to do. So that might fit.

8 I think is harder. If I make a mistake, I try and understand what went into it. Often its just a failing on my part and that is the end. Other times, I may have been in a situation where someone was or did something to try and provoke me. I then try and weigh how much of that can be a factor for my failing in that situation if at all.

9 I think will be something I have to think over more. I'm not a very productive person, but, I do work and play video games.

What I hear in your words, behind your words, projections of my own making perhaps, is a good soul reaching out for the good, a soul that refuses to let go. I believe that in life the damage we take is to what we are forced to believe that good is. For the man in the ghetto the good is his belief he has the right to end any who disrespect him. If he were to find a new faith in his self worth, and this has happened many time to those deep into gang behavior, that attitude can completely change. In short, the good really is with the only variable our understanding of what it is. You are OK, have always been and always will be. Our sacred cows provide a sense of self worth that is an illusion we really don’t need. Our fear is to be unarmored, necked and exposed when that is exactly what we are and should be. The good is our being and being is presence. Thought requires words and those have abstract and emotional meanings we learned in the past and anticipate in the future. You can’t think and be. To be is to love, to live, to feel. There is only love or separation which is a delusional state.

 

[realibrad]

I actually think he is also pretty empathetic. I do think he has some emotional limitations, but I have no idea if they're innate or capable of changing.

I agree on the working out thing. I am going to the gym 3x a week now, and it definitely improves my eating. I was probably in the best shape of my life at the beginning of the year, I'd been going to the gym regularly for about 9 months, but in December I started having horrible pain in my hip. MRI revealed a torn labrum, and a cortisone shot didn't help at all. It's hard for me to explain why, but it threw me into a terrible depression, and it actually took me until about two months ago to emotionally cope with the injury and get back to working out.

Sounds like you were trying to improve your life and were starting to see the benefits, and this injury could through that into jeopardy. It could be the confrontation with seeing that your hard work could be fruitless due to things outside of your control.

Yet, it sounds like you are going to push through and accept it. I think if this is the case, you are going to be fine so long as you see something worth working for.

 

[Blackjack200]

Sounds like you were trying to improve your life and were starting to see the benefits, and this injury could through that into jeopardy. It could be the confrontation with seeing that your hard work could be fruitless due to things outside of your control.

Yet, it sounds like you are going to push through and accept it. I think if this is the case, you are going to be fine so long as you see something worth working for.

I'm not sure if I agree with that framing. I think we're all trying to improve our lives all the time, but different elements of our environment or emotional state can make those efforts difficult or make progress very slow.

One thing I've found very helpful is to stop blaming myself for my shortcomings, and a really big part of that is just accepting that a lot of things are out of your control.

For example, I didn't decide to have a hip injury, I didn't do anything wrong to get it, and I didn't choose to get depressed and stop working out as a result. It was just a chain of events. Once you accept that, you can stop beating yourself up over it, and just see it as a predicament, a puzzle to try to solve. What went wrong the last time, and what can you change to try to prevent it from going wrong this time?

 

[realibrad]

I'm not sure if I agree with that framing. I think we're all trying to improve our lives all the time, but different elements of our environment or emotional state can make those efforts difficult or make progress very slow.

One thing I've found very helpful is to stop blaming myself for my shortcomings, and a really big part of that is just accepting that a lot of things are out of your control.

For example, I didn't decide to have a hip injury, I didn't do anything wrong to get it, and I didn't choose to get depressed and stop working out as a result. It was just a chain of events. Once you accept that, you can stop beating yourself up over it, and just see it as a predicament, a puzzle to try to solve. What went wrong the last time, and what can you change to try to prevent it from going wrong this time?

If we were all trying to improve our lives, then why would we beat ourselves up?

There are a lot of people out there that could improve their lives, but don't. I am one of those people for sure.

 

[Blackjack200]

If we were all trying to improve our lives, then why would we beat ourselves up?

Because the culture that we live in teaches us to blame ourselves for our shortcomings.

There are a lot of people out there that could improve their lives, but don't. I am one of those people for sure.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think that the struggle to improve your condition in some way is so fundamentally human that anyone that truly stops doing it will not live much longer. I think you do work to improve your life, even if you don't perceive those efforts the way that I do.

 

[realibrad]

Because the culture that we live in teaches us to blame ourselves for our shortcomings.



Pure speculation on my part, but I think that the struggle to improve your condition in some way is so fundamentally human that anyone that truly stops doing it will not live much longer. I think you do work to improve your life, even if you don't perceive those efforts the way that I do.

Improving I think is being used differently by us. I mean it as becoming better than you were before, or, better than you would otherwise be. You could have continued to not work out and stay at the fitness you were at. I think what you are saying is more or less surviving and meeting basic needs.

People are wonderfully complex. One day, that person could want to commit suicide. If they get through that day, they may never want to do it again. So much complexity.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm not sure if I agree with that framing. I think we're all trying to improve our lives all the time, but different elements of our environment or emotional state can make those efforts difficult or make progress very slow.

One thing I've found very helpful is to stop blaming myself for my shortcomings, and a really big part of that is just accepting that a lot of things are out of your control.

For example, I didn't decide to have a hip injury, I didn't do anything wrong to get it, and I didn't choose to get depressed and stop working out as a result. It was just a chain of events. Once you accept that, you can stop beating yourself up over it, and just see it as a predicament, a puzzle to try to solve. What went wrong the last time, and what can you change to try to prevent it from going wrong this time?

That seems kind of an odd stance to take.

The general notion of "It's not my fault" is incredibly unhealthy for most things in life. For example - a job that you work. It's YOUR fault that you work there - and living in denial about that will keep you from realizing that you can do something about. You can find a new job. You can realize that you made mistakes in your early education and can drive yourself to further educate. The list goes on. But if you EVER get the notion of "It's not my fault I'm here" then you're just going to live life acting as if there is nothing you can do because it's the man bringing you down.

If you have a general feeling that you don't hold the keys to your life, what gives you the motivation to try and make a difference?

 

[interchange]

That's really hard to say. I think the most important difference between us is our circumstances growing up. I had a supportive family and he did not. We both got picked on and bullied a lot in school, so I think having that support made a really big difference for me.

You are probably right, but I think the interesting question is what was it about the support that you have that's really been the difference? Both of you found some way to get through things and out the other side without major disruption to who you are or your capacity to succeed in the world. So why would it matter that you had support getting through something and he did not if you both successfully got through it without being traumatized?

I think it makes a major difference. When you look at the world, who you can be, how you might face a challenge, how your experience might shape the world, etc., you see vastly different things. So it's not so much that we need support to protect ourselves except having that support shapes what we see in ourselves past, present, and future. And similarly what we see in others. And more importantly what we see in relation to others.

The effects can be profound. All the time I see people suffering not because they aren't good enough, but instead precisely because they are good enough but their image of themselves, the world, and their relation to the world are disrupted. And the value system of a good person makes them compelled to take responsibility for it. If you haven't had the support, not only do you feel alone, but you also feel that you should be alone. Your moral imperative is not to burden others.

If only we saw the world not primarily through the harm people cause or could cause but instead through the good people cause or could cause, humanity might have some potential.

 

[Blackjack200]

Improving I think is being used differently by us. I mean it as becoming better than you were before, or, better than you would otherwise be. You could have continued to not work out and stay at the fitness you were at. I think what you are saying is more or less surviving and meeting basic needs.

Okay, let's examine that a bit. Back in the beginning of the year, I was pretty strong and in good shape, but I wasn't going to the gym because I had pain in my hip and I was frustrated and discouraged that my cortisone shot hadn't helped anything. Over the winter and spring, my physical and emotional state either deteriorated or didn't improve much. I tried to diet a couple of times, but it didn't work. Eventually, I started taking ibuprofen for my hip, and it helped. Just having time off from the gym probably helped a little bit too. Eventually, I got to point where I was ready to go back to the gym, and I went. I had to start slow because I was so out of shape.

Then, a couple of weeks ago, I got hammered by a really bad cold. I was too weak to go to the gym, and I got frustrated and discouraged again. It seemed unfair. But this time I was much quicker to emotionally recover. I told myself that I would just wait until I was better again, and go back, and not worry about lost progress or what was or wasn't fair. I think the only difference between what happened a year ago and what happened two weeks ago was some emotional maturity, If I didn't have the first experience, I wouldn't have been able to cope as well with the second.

It also changed my attitude when I workout. I used to be anxious about hitting PRs and progressing fast enough. Now I still push myself, but I appreciate each workout more, and I'm grateful for the amount of strength I have now. I know I'm not getting any younger, and I need to accept that with age comes a natural decline in physical ability. And that's a decline that even a good strength training program cannot reverse.

I don't attribute any of this maturation to good character or virtue, I think it was possible because I have a good base of support from my family and friends. In my darkest times in the winter and spring, my brother was there listening on the phone every day. My parents were there every weekend. I was able to distract myself by visiting my niece in Chicago several times.

People are wonderfully complex. One day, that person could want to commit suicide. If they get through that day, they may never want to do it again. So much complexity.

I don't think I agree with that, but I think I understand what you're trying to say; that things can change, even when they seem helpless. Yes, I think that's true, and it's something I used to talk about with my brother. When things seem dark, sometimes you really do need to just baton down the hatches and weather the storm. That's where I think I was 6 months ago.

 

[realibrad]

Okay, let's examine that a bit. Back in the beginning of the year, I was pretty strong and in good shape, but I wasn't going to the gym because I had pain in my hip and I was frustrated and discouraged that my cortisone shot hadn't helped anything. Over the winter and spring, my physical and emotional state either deteriorated or didn't improve much. I tried to diet a couple of times, but it didn't work. Eventually, I started taking ibuprofen for my hip, and it helped. Just having time off from the gym probably helped a little bit too. Eventually, I got to point where I was ready to go back to the gym, and I went. I had to start slow because I was so out of shape.

Then, a couple of weeks ago, I got hammered by a really bad cold. I was too weak to go to the gym, and I got frustrated and discouraged again. It seemed unfair. But this time I was much quicker to emotionally recover. I told myself that I would just wait until I was better again, and go back, and not worry about lost progress or what was or wasn't fair. I think the only difference between what happened a year ago and what happened two weeks ago was some emotional maturity, If I didn't have the first experience, I wouldn't have been able to cope as well with the second.

It also changed my attitude when I workout. I used to be anxious about hitting PRs and progressing fast enough. Now I still push myself, but I appreciate each workout more, and I'm grateful for the amount of strength I have now. I know I'm not getting any younger, and I need to accept that with age comes a natural decline in physical ability. And that's a decline that even a good strength training program cannot reverse.

I don't attribute any of this maturation to good character or virtue, I think it was possible because I have a good base of support from my family and friends. In my darkest times in the winter and spring, my brother was there listening on the phone every day. My parents were there every weekend. I was able to distract myself by visiting my niece in Chicago several times.



I don't think I agree with that, but I think I understand what you're trying to say; that things can change, even when they seem helpless. Yes, I think that's true, and it's something I used to talk about with my brother. When things seem dark, sometimes you really do need to just baton down the hatches and weather the storm. That's where I think I was 6 months ago.

I get not beating yourself up to the point where its unproductive. I also think you might be swinging the other way in terms of thinking that your gains are not part of what you also did. I'm not saying you did everything alone, but, for sure you were the one going to the gym. You were the one pushing through. If you want to place a smaller value on that, I can't stop you. Objectively though, you played a role in that so you would be incorrect to say its not part of your character.

Also, just because you gain something, does not mean its not work. It seems obvious, but, many times I see people saying that something they did was not that big of a deal because they got something out of it.

 

[Blackjack200]

You are probably right, but I think the interesting question is what was it about the support that you have that's really been the difference? Both of you found some way to get through things and out the other side without major disruption to who you are or your capacity to succeed in the world. So why would it matter that you had support getting through something and he did not if you both successfully got through it without being traumatized?

I think we were both traumatized by it, and I think we're both impacted by it to this day, but I think the difference between us is that I have more available to help cope with it. My memory of childhood is almost entirely painful, and from the things he's said to me, I know it's the same for him.

I think it makes a major difference. When you look at the world, who you can be, how you might face a challenge, how your experience might shape the world, etc., you see vastly different things. So it's not so much that we need support to protect ourselves except having that support shapes what we see in ourselves past, present, and future. And similarly what we see in others. And more importantly what we see in relation to others.

The effects can be profound. All the time I see people suffering not because they aren't good enough, but instead precisely because they are good enough but their image of themselves, the world, and their relation to the world are disrupted. And the value system of a good person makes them compelled to take responsibility for it. If you haven't had the support, not only do you feel alone, but you also feel that you should be alone. Your moral imperative is not to burden others.

If only we saw the world not primarily through the harm people cause or could cause but instead through the good people cause or could cause, humanity might have some potential.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but I'd say I don't know exactly what role your support network plays in helping you overcome challenges, whether it's more direct, or just influencing how you see yourself. What I would say is that I don't think I would have come through some of my challenges as well as I have without the family and friends that I have.

 

[hal2kilo]

I've been thinking about making this thread for some time. I won't get into the details of how this came about, but for the last couple of months I've been roommates with a white 33 year old working class man. I've certainly known plenty of working class people, and had working class friends, but living day to day with this person some of his habits and attitudes are striking, and I think illuminating as well.

First thing I'll say about him is that he's a very nice guy. He clearly wants people to like him when he interacts with them, and he's easy to get along with. He's tidy and cleans up after himself.

The first striking thing about him is his spending habits. I don't know how much money he makes, I would guess $40k or less. He spends his money on electronics (annual smartphone upgrades, smart watch, VR system, gaming computer, consoles, games) vaping supplies, beer, and collectable toys. I've come to see all these things as coping mechanisms for the stress he feels from his job, and his lack of a real social network.

As far as his job goes, he has a physically intense and stressful job. He does not get along with his boss at all, and has told me that his boss frequently calls him "***************" or "cracker" (his boss is black). His theory (and I agree with him) is that his boss doesn't like him because he's a good performer and well liked by regional management. In fact, the regional manager will occasionally visit my roommate's workplace and tell him what a good job he's doing, and he'll get backlash from his boss following those visits. So he works ~ 45-50 hours a week at this place, and is frequently stressed out and upset when he gets home.

Once home, he'll usually have 3-5 beers and a small dinner. He vapes constantly so I wonder if that affects his appetite. I mentioned that he doesn't really have a social network. The only family that he has is his father. That relationship is tenuous, and he doesn't like to visit his father because his father's new wife doesn't want him around. He listens to me when I'm on the phone with my brother and he's said to me a few times that he wishes he had someone that he could talk to like that.

He doesn't really seem to have any kind of political philosophy, and he's only said a few things to me about political news. He said that he couldn't believe that they were trying to blame Kavanaugh for stuff that happened 35 years ago, and he once said something about not being sure if Trump would make it to the end of his term of if 'they would get rid of him'. I just kind of shrugged my shoulders in both cases because I didn't really want to have those conversations. I'm pretty sure he doesn't vote.

When I say that living with this guy is illuminating, its because its helped me see a lot of parallels in my own life. At a glance, it seems like I have things much better. I make more money at a less stressful job. I have a large family that I'm very close to, I have a circle of friends (although not a group that I hang out with socially on a regular basis). But I also spend a lot of my money on things to help with my own anxiety. Junk food, sports, technology, etc. I'm living in the same society that he is, and suffering from a lot of the same alienation and isolation that he is. Sure, I have a political philosophy and I vote, but so what? Voting is nearly worthless in all but a few states, and its certainly worthless in mine. So my political life is basically getting upset at things and posting on message boards. Who cares?

Congrats if you made to the end, you probably have a better attention span than me.

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.” Thoreau

 

[Blackjack200]

That seems kind of an odd stance to take.

The general notion of "It's not my fault" is incredibly unhealthy for most things in life. For example - a job that you work. It's YOUR fault that you work there - and living in denial about that will keep you from realizing that you can do something about. You can find a new job. You can realize that you made mistakes in your early education and can drive yourself to further educate. The list goes on. But if you EVER get the notion of "It's not my fault I'm here" then you're just going to live life acting as if there is nothing you can do because it's the man bringing you down.

If you have a general feeling that you don't hold the keys to your life, what gives you the motivation to try and make a difference?

You've given the job example a couple of times, so I think I have a good anecdote for that. 11 years ago I changed jobs. Not because I was looking for a new job (I was doing very well at my job at the time), but because someone I knew thought they had a good opportunity for me. So I took the new job and it was terrible. I hated it, I didn't get along with my manager. I wanted desperately to get out of it. But the job was in financial services, and 10 years ago the industry collapsed. Friends were losing their jobs left and right. For years it was almost impossible to change firms. Finally, things started to get better, but I still didn't have any luck. My skills were a little bit too specialized.

I finally did change jobs about 4 years ago, but it wasn't because I took charge of the situation or anything like that, it was because someone else in another department knew who I was and told me about the opportunity. The new job has been great, and I was quickly promoted to manager.

But for the last year or so, I've wanted to move on to something new. I want to make more money, and I want to do something fresh. But I haven't done much to actually search. I could blame myself for that, or I could just appreciate that I was going through a lot of other things during that time. I was taking MBA classes and I was working on a side business.

You seem to think I should blame myself for not finding a new job over the last year, I think it makes more sense to just recognize that it's more circumstantial than anything else. I may do more to try to find a new job next year, I may not, I don't know. I still need to finish my MBA, I still need to do more to get my side business off the ground, and I want to keep going to the gym. I think it's important for me to appreciate that those are challenging things, and if I fall short on some things, it's not some kind of personal fault.

 

[Blackjack200]

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

I think this is true, but I don't think it's any kind of natural order. I don't think its hopeless.

I think, in many cases, we can change the way we respond to our environments, and ease our own anxiety, even if we can't change the environments or do much do get out of them. It's probably not far from stoicism. Part of this is just recognizing how many other people are living lives of quiet desperation.

Because if that's the case, you no longer need to feel ashamed about your own circumstances. You can just see yourself as sharing the same struggles as many other people, and then set about finding the best way to cope with them.

 

[Perknose]

I just found this thread, and have just finished reading it in its entirety. It was fabulous and deep . . . and very, very human. I salute you, OP, for your initial sharing, which has prompted a rich panoply of responses. If there were such a thing, this thread would get my vote for Thread of the Year across all of our many fora. Thank you for that.