Meet my Working Class Roommate

[Blackjack200]

I've been thinking about making this thread for some time. I won't get into the details of how this came about, but for the last couple of months I've been roommates with a white 33 year old working class man. I've certainly known plenty of working class people, and had working class friends, but living day to day with this person some of his habits and attitudes are striking, and I think illuminating as well.

First thing I'll say about him is that he's a very nice guy. He clearly wants people to like him when he interacts with them, and he's easy to get along with. He's tidy and cleans up after himself.

The first striking thing about him is his spending habits. I don't know how much money he makes, I would guess $40k or less. He spends his money on electronics (annual smartphone upgrades, smart watch, VR system, gaming computer, consoles, games) vaping supplies, beer, and collectable toys. I've come to see all these things as coping mechanisms for the stress he feels from his job, and his lack of a real social network.

As far as his job goes, he has a physically intense and stressful job. He does not get along with his boss at all, and has told me that his boss frequently calls him "beloved patriot" or "cracker" (his boss is black). His theory (and I agree with him) is that his boss doesn't like him because he's a good performer and well liked by regional management. In fact, the regional manager will occasionally visit my roommate's workplace and tell him what a good job he's doing, and he'll get backlash from his boss following those visits. So he works ~ 45-50 hours a week at this place, and is frequently stressed out and upset when he gets home.

Once home, he'll usually have 3-5 beers and a small dinner. He vapes constantly so I wonder if that affects his appetite. I mentioned that he doesn't really have a social network. The only family that he has is his father. That relationship is tenuous, and he doesn't like to visit his father because his father's new wife doesn't want him around. He listens to me when I'm on the phone with my brother and he's said to me a few times that he wishes he had someone that he could talk to like that.

He doesn't really seem to have any kind of political philosophy, and he's only said a few things to me about political news. He said that he couldn't believe that they were trying to blame Kavanaugh for stuff that happened 35 years ago, and he once said something about not being sure if Trump would make it to the end of his term of if 'they would get rid of him'. I just kind of shrugged my shoulders in both cases because I didn't really want to have those conversations. I'm pretty sure he doesn't vote.

When I say that living with this guy is illuminating, its because its helped me see a lot of parallels in my own life. At a glance, it seems like I have things much better. I make more money at a less stressful job. I have a large family that I'm very close to, I have a circle of friends (although not a group that I hang out with socially on a regular basis). But I also spend a lot of my money on things to help with my own anxiety. Junk food, sports, technology, etc. I'm living in the same society that he is, and suffering from a lot of the same alienation and isolation that he is. Sure, I have a political philosophy and I vote, but so what? Voting is nearly worthless in all but a few states, and its certainly worthless in mine. So my political life is basically getting upset at things and posting on message boards. Who cares?

Congrats if you made to the end, you probably have a better attention span than me.

 

[yllus]

A thought about the spending habits of those living on very little money or via performing physically demanding jobs: I hold the view that people almost always make rational decisions about their life; only in one-off sort of situations do we act crazy.

How then can one rationalize poor eating or buying habits of people like your roommate? Well, how about this: These are folks who don't see themselves living until they're 100 and retiring to a small condo in a few decades. Their life is going to be shorter than that - maybe much shorter - and filled with considerable pain. So why not spend on what makes you happy today? That can be in the form of alcohol, drugs, or just lazing around with video games and fast food. Exercise and putting money away for retirement is for people who expect happy retirements. That's not what this guy is looking forward to.

 

[ivwshane]

Congratulations on feeling that doing your civic duty is pointless. Republicans would like to thank you for your complacency.

I would also like to thank you for becoming so disillusioned about the political process that you are about to give up instead of doing something worthwhile like getting out to get people to vote or to be more active in the political process. Its always much better to give up than to fight back against what you see as a political system where you have no voice. Its also easier and its why our founding fathers took the same approach and did nothing; why even bother worrying about being taxed when you aren't getting representation.

Its good thing that you didn't say much to your roommate or to try and impart your wisdom, that has allowed you to have a good life, on him. God forbid you tell him that if his skills are recognized by the higher-ups that his services would be valued by someplace else, especially in this economy where unemployment is historically low and finding quality employees has become increasingly challenging. No, just letting him be stressed the fuck out instead of encouraging change was the smart thing to do. God forbid if you don't try to help a fellow human being, there's no reward in that, especially if his political views might be different than yours. It certainly wouldn't make any sense to use your former passion for politics to show how support of your political views could improve his life. You certainly wouldn't want to use your roommate as practice for persuading people to support your views or use him to understand why he thinks the way he does in order to craft a more effective argument for when you take to the streets with your new skills.

/S

Did you make it this far or did you give up because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear.

 

[pauldun170]

I have a friend, mid 40's. Crap pay for ages. Eats like crap. Smokes. Great at what she does but over worked (she is effectively on call 7 days a week 18 hours a day). Single.

I've known plenty of people who work crap jobs and make crap pay. Some not that educated. Some are educated
Financially, they may not be in the best shape but they all live fulfilling lives and are happy.
Friends and social networks make all the difference in the world.

 

[Commodus]

The saying goes that the greatest threat to democracy isn't picking the wrong side, it's apathy.

Yeah, your vote won't matter a huge amount, but the important point is that you care. It might inspire you to participate in votes and other political actions where you'll make more of a difference, and it could encourage your friends and family to do the same.

To me, the "what difference does it make" routine is akin to sitting in a boat and refusing to paddle because the current is going against you. Yeah, you might not get to where you'd like to go in a quick fashion, or even at all, but the point is to try. You can't complain about going over the waterfall if you just sat there assuming your fate was sealed.

 

[Sinsear]

You guys should hook up

 

[Blackjack200]

Congratulations on feeling that doing your civic duty is pointless. Republicans would like to thank you for your complacency.

I didn't say it was pointless, I said in most states its "nearly worthless". I think that's pretty clear, but if you want to make a thread about it I'd be happy to debate it with you, it's not really my point here.

I would also like to thank you for becoming so disillusioned about the political process that you are about to give up instead of doing something worthwhile like getting out to get people to vote or to be more active in the political process. Its always much better to give up than to fight back against what you see as a political system where you have no voice. Its also easier and its why our founding fathers took the same approach and did nothing; why even bother worrying about being taxed when you aren't getting representation.

You should probably go back and reread my post, because I never said I was about to give up because I was disillusioned. I was pointing out that the substance of what I'm currently doing is minimal. I really don't know how you got from point A to point B.

Its good thing that you didn't say much to your roommate or to try and impart your wisdom, that has allowed you to have a good life, on him. God forbid you tell him that if his skills are recognized by the higher-ups that his services would be valued by someplace else, especially in this economy where unemployment is historically low and finding quality employees has become increasingly challenging. No, just letting him be stressed the fuck out instead of encouraging change was the smart thing to do. God forbid if you don't try to help a fellow human being, there's no reward in that, especially if his political views might be different than yours. It certainly wouldn't make any sense to use your former passion for politics to show how support of your political views could improve his life. You certainly wouldn't want to use your roommate as practice for persuading people to support your views or use him to understand why he thinks the way he does in order to craft a more effective argument for when you take to the streets with your new skills.

You think my "wisdom" has allowed me to have a good life? Was it wise of me to have a supportive family and resources growing up that he didn't have?

As far as my roommate goes, you're infantilizing him. He understands his options. He has changed jobs within the industry a few times, and he talks a lot about tradeoffs between continuing to do what he's doing and potentially advancing his career vs. doing something else. There are a lot of factors that go into his decisions. That you think he's too oafish to handle his own life decisions and I'm callous for not helpfully explaining to him how to live says a lot more about you than it does about him or me.

Did you make it this far or did you give up because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear.

I certainly heard what you wanted to say.

 

[Blackjack200]

I have a friend, mid 40's. Crap pay for ages. Eats like crap. Smokes. Great at what she does but over worked (she is effectively on call 7 days a week 18 hours a day). Single.

I've known plenty of people who work crap jobs and make crap pay. Some not that educated. Some are educated
Financially, they may not be in the best shape but they all live fulfilling lives and are happy.
Friends and social networks make all the difference in the world.

Sure, your friends are probably happier and more fulfilled than I am, but I wonder if that's really that common.

 

[Blackjack200]

The saying goes that the greatest threat to democracy isn't picking the wrong side, it's apathy.

Yeah, your vote won't matter a huge amount, but the important point is that you care. It might inspire you to participate in votes and other political actions where you'll make more of a difference, and it could encourage your friends and family to do the same.

To me, the "what difference does it make" routine is akin to sitting in a boat and refusing to paddle because the current is going against you. Yeah, you might not get to where you'd like to go in a quick fashion, or even at all, but the point is to try. You can't complain about going over the waterfall if you just sat there assuming your fate was sealed.

Really? Who out there would say they don't care? A few Nihilists, sure, but I'd guess the overwhelming majority of people will tell you that they care about the homeless, the mentally ill, the environment, etc., and then they don't jack shit about any of it. I think caring is pretty worthless, what matters is what you do.

 

[Commodus]

Really? Who out there would say they don't care? A few Nihilists, sure, but I'd guess the overwhelming majority of people will tell you that they care about the homeless, the mentally ill, the environment, etc., and then they don't jack shit about any of it. I think caring is pretty worthless, what matters is what you do.

Caring is the first step toward doing something, that's all. And if you don't care, other people around will see it and let it rub off on them.

I suppose the main thing is that I don't want to see you be one of those "oh, I'm not political" types who basically lets the status quo run roughshod over them. You don't have to be an activist or run for office, but it's good to have a clear stance and participate.

 

[ivwshane]

I didn't say it was pointless, I said in most states its "nearly worthless". I think that's pretty clear, but if you want to make a thread about it I'd be happy to debate it with you, it's not really my point here.



You should probably go back and reread my post, because I never said I was about to give up because I was disillusioned. I was pointing out that the substance of what I'm currently doing is minimal. I really don't know how you got from point A to point B.



You think my "wisdom" has allowed me to have a good life? Was it wise of me to have a supportive family and resources growing up that he didn't have?

As far as my roommate goes, you're infantilizing him. He understands his options. He has changed jobs within the industry a few times, and he talks a lot about tradeoffs between continuing to do what he's doing and potentially advancing his career vs. doing something else. There are a lot of factors that go into his decisions. That you think he's too oafish to handle his own life decisions and I'm callous for not helpfully explaining to him how to live says a lot more about you than it does about him or me.



I certainly heard what you wanted to say.

Lol

I, as well as everyone else can read what you wrote.

Sure, I have a political philosophy and I vote, but so what? Voting is nearly worthless in all but a few states, and its certainly worthless in mine. So my political life is basically getting upset at things and posting on message boards. Who cares?

Certainly worthless # nearly worthless.

You can lie to yourself all you want, you aren't going to lie to me.

As far as me thinking he's too oafish to do something himself, those are your words not mine.

You two do seem perfect for each other though, misery does love company.

Good luck!

 

[Blackjack200]

Caring is the first step toward doing something, that's all. And if you don't care, other people around will see it and let it rub off on them.

I suppose the main thing is that I don't want to see you be one of those "oh, I'm not political" types who basically lets the status quo run roughshod over them. You don't have to be an activist or run for office, but it's good to have a clear stance and participate.

I'm surprised that's what you took from my post. To me, it's more of a critical look at my own behavior than a suggestion that we shouldn't care about politics. It's also, I think, somewhat helpful in understanding people that are disengaged.

I mean, I wonder if you or anyone reading this thread thinks that I should be pushing this guy to register and vote. I don't really see anyone running for office that's offering anything to him.

 

[Blackjack200]

Lol

I, as well as everyone else can read what you wrote.

Certainly worthless # nearly worthless.

You can lie to yourself all you want, you aren't going to lie to me.

As far as me thinking he's too oafish to do something himself, those are your words not mine.

You two do seem perfect for each other though, misery does love company.

Good luck!

Lovely. Goodbye.

 

[realibrad]

I'm surprised that's what you took from my post. To me, it's more of a critical look at my own behavior than a suggestion that we shouldn't care about politics. It's also, I think, somewhat helpful in understanding people that are disengaged.

I mean, I wonder if you or anyone reading this thread thinks that I should be pushing this guy to register and vote. I don't really see anyone running for office that's offering anything to him.

You are catching heat because you are challenging people's morals here. Many see voting as a moral thing to do. When you say that act of morality is pointless, you are saying that this moral thing is pointless. Because people cannot disassociate and objectively assess their moral positions, they instead attack anything that challenges them. If you do anything other than accept the inherent moral nature of something like this, you will catch heat.

I warn you of this because regardless of your intent or motivations, you will be attacked. If you do not mind this, then go ahead. If you do not wish to be attacked, then you should move on.

 

[dank69]

Sounds like the guy needs a close friend. Nothing stopping you from becoming that friend. Maybe you need a new friend too. Probably a good idea to avoid political talk for awhile though, haha. Or if you feel the need at least study the way Bernie does it.

 

[interchange]

A thought about the spending habits of those living on very little money or via performing physically demanding jobs: I hold the view that people almost always make rational decisions about their life; only in one-off sort of situations do we act crazy.

I suggest that you, like most people, believe this for good reason, but I don't think that good reason is because what you believe is true.

 

[ivwshane]

You are catching heat because you are challenging people's morals here. Many see voting as a moral thing to do. When you say that act of morality is pointless, you are saying that this moral thing is pointless. Because people cannot disassociate and objectively assess their moral positions, they instead attack anything that challenges them. If you do anything other than accept the inherent moral nature of something like this, you will catch heat.

I warn you of this because regardless of your intent or motivations, you will be attacked. If you do not mind this, then go ahead. If you do not wish to be attacked, then you should move on.

No, he's being attacked because he decided to make a post on a political forum to gain pity. I don't feel pity for those who are unwilling to help themselves. Now if he had created a post asking how he could help himself then the responses would have be different. Instead he wants to act like a little bitch and he'll be treated as such.

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about with regards to morals.

 

[realibrad]

No, he's being attacked because he decided to make a post on a political forum to gain pity. I don't feel pity for those who are unwilling to help themselves. Now if he had created a post asking how he could help himself then the responses would have be different. Instead he wants to act like a little bitch and he'll be treated as such.

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about with regards to morals.

If you want to presume that was his intent so be it. If that is the case, then it seems weird for you to lash out at him for the voting part. Your reaction to this post does fit very well with what I just said though.

 

[Commodus]

I'm surprised that's what you took from my post. To me, it's more of a critical look at my own behavior than a suggestion that we shouldn't care about politics. It's also, I think, somewhat helpful in understanding people that are disengaged.

I mean, I wonder if you or anyone reading this thread thinks that I should be pushing this guy to register and vote. I don't really see anyone running for office that's offering anything to him.

Ah, apologies if I misunderstood.

I'd say it might be more important to get him interested in politics than to specifically tell him to vote... just so long as you make sure he stays the hell away from Fox News, of course!

 

[ivwshane]

If you want to presume that was his intent so be it. If that is the case, then it seems weird for you to lash out at him for the voting part. Your reaction to this post does fit very well with what I just said though.

I'm sure you could justify your post no matter what I said but that's mostly a reflection of who you are as poster.

I'll just point out that you didn't bother addressing anything in the OP instead attacked everyone else's response.

 

[realibrad]

I'm sure you could justify your post no matter what I said but that's mostly a reflection of who you are as poster.

I'll just point out that you didn't bother addressing anything in the OP instead attacked everyone else's response.

Not everyone's response as my post was for him to explain what I thought was going on.

 

[woolfe9998]

You are catching heat because you are challenging people's morals here. Many see voting as a moral thing to do. When you say that act of morality is pointless, you are saying that this moral thing is pointless. Because people cannot disassociate and objectively assess their moral positions, they instead attack anything that challenges them. If you do anything other than accept the inherent moral nature of something like this, you will catch heat.

I warn you of this because regardless of your intent or motivations, you will be attacked. If you do not mind this, then go ahead. If you do not wish to be attacked, then you should move on.

Yes, and it may also be dependent on current context. Had he wrote this say three years ago, that would be one thing. Writing it now when we're on the eve of perhaps the most consequential mid term election we've had in generations is likely to put people on edge.

 

[Blackjack200]

Sounds like the guy needs a close friend. Nothing stopping you from becoming that friend. Maybe you need a new friend too. Probably a good idea to avoid political talk for awhile though, haha. Or if you feel the need at least study the way Bernie does it.

We're friendly with each other. We watch football together every Sunday, and we watch other stuff together sometimes. We do talk to each other about stuff going on in our lives. But I don't think it will ever be a really deep friendship.

Its hard for me to explain why, but let me try it this way. When I talk to my brother on the phone, we talk about things that we're embarrassed about or ashamed of. We talk candidly about the relationship we have with our parents and our sister, we talk about depression, struggles, and frustrations. It's a very deep, intimate relationship.

Now, I actually do that with my roommate too, but it's a very gradual thing, like I don't just bare all to him, we just gradually share more and more with each other. But the difference here is that as I share new things with him, a lot of times he'll respond with something that reveals to me that he has a very different kind of perspective, or he's coming from a very different kind of place. There's nothing wrong with that, but it takes time to sort of unravel that and get to a common understanding. Like, a lot of time. And this situation is probably temporary. He's likely to be gone by the end of the year.

All that said, I think we both benefit from the interaction for the time being.

 

[realibrad]

Yes, and it may also be dependent on current context. Had he wrote this say three years ago, that would be one thing. Writing it now when we're on the eve of perhaps the most consequential mid term election we've had in generations is likely to put people on edge.

The justification for shortcuts are many. I personally felt his point was not what others thought it was, but, even if I agreed with them I would see no reason to be so angry and lash out. When someone disagrees with me, I want to know why. What I often see are others that see disagreement and then attack.

 

[Blackjack200]

Ah, apologies if I misunderstood.

I'd say it might be more important to get him interested in politics than to specifically tell him to vote... just so long as you make sure he stays the hell away from Fox News, of course!

Honest question... in what way would you try to get him interested in politics?