Medical ethics?

[warmodder]

@ irishscott (the nested quotes are driving me nuts haha!)

If that was the doctor's recommendation why not? You'll end up losing em either way anyway. Deciding to remove a proven problem area in order to prevent a life threating disease is hardly psychotic--It's good sense.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Will to live? If your family had history of death due to testicular cancer, would you cut your balls off as a "preventative measure"?

People who are psychologically unfit to make their own decisions do not have the same rights as normal people. There's a reason minors can't do a lot of stuff without a signed form from their guardian.

You know, I f was done having kids and I had a bunch of family die of nut cancer, I just might. Taking Testosterone shots>>>>> chemo/radiation.

I don't think chemical castration prevents nut cancer...

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: warmodder
@ irishscott (the nested quotes are driving me nuts haha!)

If that was the doctor's recommendation why not? You'll end up losing em either way anyway. Deciding to remove a proven problem area in order to prevent a life threating disease is hardly psychotic--It's good sense.

Says who? A risk of cancer is not a guarantee. My mom's side of the family has a long history of diabetes. I'm 20 and show no signs of it. I also drank enough soda as a kid to make me faint a couple of times (due to sugar overload).

Admitantly, I all but stopped drinking soda over a year ago, but that was for weight/getting in shape purposes. And I felt better in general afterwards.

And yeah, the nested quotes were getting kinda crazy lol

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: waggy

as i said i feel they should try other stuff before they go into something as bad as cutting off her breast. surgery should be the very last thing tried.

What "other stuff" should they try when there is no present indication of anything wrong other than a family history of breast cancer?

Prophylactic Mastectomies are used when the risk (family history) is high, mortality (in the other family members) is high and "monitoring" is decided to be an unacceptable risk.

MotionMan

Under the conditions cited in your own post and bolded, why would anybody do anything at all?

DUH!!!

...when the risk (family history) is high, mortality (in the other family members) is high and "monitoring" is decided to be an unacceptable risk.

I was just wondering what the "other stuff" might be, since I cannot think of any at the moment.

MotionMan

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Well I guess you need to change the thread title (once again) to "What's your opinion on the medical ethics of this situation"?

Seriously, you're way out on a limb here. When you realize that medical ethics aren't a matter of opinion and are pretty clearly defined by the people who are best qualified to define them (doctors), suddenly you want people's opinions.

My opinion matches that of everyone else's here pretty much. You just don't seem to realize how lethal breast cancer is. If there's a high probability of a woman getting breast cancer based on genetics and family history then she has VERY good reason to fear for her life. If it reduces the chance of getting breast cancer by even 60-70% in a high risk individual it might be worth it. Forget completely eliminating the risk of cancer. That'll never happen, and just because a mastectomy doesn't do it is no argument against it. I doubt there's a medical operation out there that can guarantee 100% effectiveness anyway, yet we're not arguing about them.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Will to live? If your family had history of death due to testicular cancer, would you cut your balls off as a "preventative measure"?

People who are psychologically unfit to make their own decisions do not have the same rights as normal people. There's a reason minors can't do a lot of stuff without a signed form from their guardian.

You know, I f was done having kids and I had a bunch of family die of nut cancer, I just might. Taking Testosterone shots>>>>> chemo/radiation.

I don't think chemical castration prevents nut cancer...

Youll need the shots after your balls are removed, dumbass.

This threads reminds me why I hope Universal Health Care never makes it in the US, the people have way too high expectations for health care. "Take a mammogram everyday and youll never get breast cancer, and if you do, sue someone for malpractice!" Yeesh.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Will to live? If your family had history of death due to testicular cancer, would you cut your balls off as a "preventative measure"?

People who are psychologically unfit to make their own decisions do not have the same rights as normal people. There's a reason minors can't do a lot of stuff without a signed form from their guardian.

You know, I f was done having kids and I had a bunch of family die of nut cancer, I just might. Taking Testosterone shots>>>>> chemo/radiation.

I don't think chemical castration prevents nut cancer...

Youll need the shots after your balls are removed, dumbass.

This threads reminds me why I hope Universal Health Care never makes it in the US, the people have way too high expectations for health care. "Take a mammogram everyday and youll never get breast cancer, and if you do, sue someone for malpractice!" Yeesh.

nobody is saying take a mommogram everyday and you will never get breast cancer.

 

[warmodder]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Will to live? If your family had history of death due to testicular cancer, would you cut your balls off as a "preventative measure"?

People who are psychologically unfit to make their own decisions do not have the same rights as normal people. There's a reason minors can't do a lot of stuff without a signed form from their guardian.

You know, I f was done having kids and I had a bunch of family die of nut cancer, I just might. Taking Testosterone shots>>>>> chemo/radiation.

I don't think chemical castration prevents nut cancer...

Youll need the shots after your balls are removed, dumbass.

This threads reminds me why I hope Universal Health Care never makes it in the US, the people have way too high expectations for health care. "Take a mammogram everyday and youll never get breast cancer, and if you do, sue someone for malpractice!" Yeesh.

nobody is saying take a mommogram everyday and you will never get breast cancer.

Do you agree with the procedure but only after all other avenues are exhausted?

I think that's a logical position provided other procedures are available.

 

[CKent]

I remember reading this in the news a while back. The girl's an idiot. The doctor did nothing unethical.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Will to live? If your family had history of death due to testicular cancer, would you cut your balls off as a "preventative measure"?

People who are psychologically unfit to make their own decisions do not have the same rights as normal people. There's a reason minors can't do a lot of stuff without a signed form from their guardian.

You know, I f was done having kids and I had a bunch of family die of nut cancer, I just might. Taking Testosterone shots>>>>> chemo/radiation.

I don't think chemical castration prevents nut cancer...

Youll need the shots after your balls are removed, dumbass.

Sorry, I have better things to do than research methods of castration and the subsequent treatments.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: warmodder

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Will to live? If your family had history of death due to testicular cancer, would you cut your balls off as a "preventative measure"?

People who are psychologically unfit to make their own decisions do not have the same rights as normal people. There's a reason minors can't do a lot of stuff without a signed form from their guardian.

You know, I f was done having kids and I had a bunch of family die of nut cancer, I just might. Taking Testosterone shots>>>>> chemo/radiation.

I don't think chemical castration prevents nut cancer...

Youll need the shots after your balls are removed, dumbass.

This threads reminds me why I hope Universal Health Care never makes it in the US, the people have way too high expectations for health care. "Take a mammogram everyday and youll never get breast cancer, and if you do, sue someone for malpractice!" Yeesh.

nobody is saying take a mommogram everyday and you will never get breast cancer.

Do you agree with the procedure but only after all other avenues are exhausted?

I think that's a logical position provided other procedures are available.

of course.

i just think that right now they have not. she has a chance of getting it. right now she is a healthy cancer free person. i think the decision to cut off her breast is not the best at that time. but again that is my opionion.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

I don't know? How many radical mastectomies have you performed? If none why is your opinion any more valid than mine or any other participants in this thread.

 

[imported_quasi]

Because you don't know shit about medicine/ethics, whereas MotionMan has actually dealt with similar issues.

Just because you can spout your opinion doesn't mean it is worth considering.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: quasi
Because you don't know shit about medicine/ethics, whereas MotionMan has actually dealt with similar issues.

Just because you can spout your opinion doesn't mean it is worth considering.

thats the great thing about opionion. you don't have to agree with everyones.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Its perfectly ethical but stupid.

Just having her mammograms regularly will keep her safe.

no it won't mammograms are far from a perfect science.

So is removing perfectly healthy breasts not a perfect science. There is no guarantee.

So what youre saying is the mortality rate of a healthy middle aged woman having her breasts removed is the same as breast cancer survival....

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: quasi
Because you don't know shit about medicine/ethics, whereas MotionMan has actually dealt with similar issues.

Just because you can spout your opinion doesn't mean it is worth considering.

And just because you agree with the Powers That Be doesn't make yours worthy of further consideration either.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

Hey MotionMan how ethical was it for surgeons to install leaky breast implants in perfectly healthy women and thereby cause physical harm when the implants leaked. I guess your attitude would be 'well the women wanted it'.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

Hey MotionMan how ethical was it for surgeons to install leaky breast implants in perfectly healthy women and thereby cause physical harm when the implants leaked. I guess your attitude would be 'well the women wanted it'.

err. ok thats just fucking stupid to even think of comparing the two.

 

[warmodder]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

Hey MotionMan how ethical was it for surgeons to install leaky breast implants in perfectly healthy women and thereby cause physical harm when the implants leaked. I guess your attitude would be 'well the women wanted it'.

Women are given the risks of the surgery up front. If they agree with them the surgery is performed. That is exactly the attitude because it is a purely cosmetic surgery.

In a preventative removal the attitude isn't necessarily excitement--rather they realize they're taking steps to extend their cancer free life.

Btw, what is your position on this subject? You haven't really done anything except ask for opinions and act surprised when people agree with the experts.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

I don't know? How many radical mastectomies have you performed? If none why is your opinion any more valid than mine or any other participants in this thread.

Because I have researched and dealt with this issue professionally (as a lawyer) and personally (through family and friends).

Short of actually picking up a scalpel, I think I am on pretty good footing.

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

Hey MotionMan how ethical was it for surgeons to install leaky breast implants in perfectly healthy women and thereby cause physical harm when the implants leaked. I guess your attitude would be 'well the women wanted it'.

You are absolutely wrong and that statement just goes to prove how little you know about this subject. The doctors who knowingly implanted faulty implants did violate medical ethics and committed medical malpractice.

This situation is so completely different that is boggles the mind that you would even think to try to compare them.

MotionMan

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

I don't know? How many radical mastectomies have you performed? If none why is your opinion any more valid than mine or any other participants in this thread.

Because I have researched and dealt with this issue professionally (as a lawyer) and personally (through family and friends).

Short of actually picking up a scalpel, I think I am on pretty good footing.

MotionMan

No offense to you MotionMan but don't let the fact that you're a lawyer go to your head. Though i think it has.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Let's get back to the argument here. Some people are saying that the doctor shouldn't be advising the woman to have a mastectomy because she doesn't yet have cancer. No one has really qualified this idea though. Why is this form of preventative surgery such a horrible thing? Breast cancer could develop and spread to other parts of the body BETWEEN regular mammograms, thus making mastectomy no longer an instant cure. It really is that dangerous. If the risk is high enough I could see a doctor recommending a mastectomy and having good reason to do so.

 

[warmodder]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
If she's informed of her choices, and that's the choice she makes, than it's 100% perfectly acceptable.

Again this thread doesn't really concern the patients but the doctors actions. Specifically is removing womens perfectly healthy breasts in an attempt to prevent possible cancer outbreak Ethical on the part of the doctors?

The American Medical Association says YES.

In fact, the entire American medical community says YES.

Every single HMO in this country says YES.

Every single hospital in America has an active ETHICS BOARD. Every single one of them says YES.

Please inform yourself. 😕

The thread is asking for opinions. Render yours and move on.

Are you only looking for uninformed opinions?

MotionMan

I don't know? How many radical mastectomies have you performed? If none why is your opinion any more valid than mine or any other participants in this thread.

Because I have researched and dealt with this issue professionally (as a lawyer) and personally (through family and friends).

Short of actually picking up a scalpel, I think I am on pretty good footing.

MotionMan

No offense to you MotionMan but don't let the fact that you're a lawyer go to your head. Though i think it has.

Go to his head? He's stating why he's qualified to talk on the the issue...you've gotta be a fucking troll there's no other explanation.