Mazda 3 and 6 just keep getting better

[punjabiplaya]

What, the Mazdaspeed? I have a funny feeling that a fully optioned s GT version (assuming they keep the same trim name convention) may end up north of that by itself. I'm guesstimating between $26k and $28k. I'll be happy if I'm wrong about that, however...

Yeah with the option package it's around 27 or 28. I forgot to write base price of 25k with a ~2k option package.

 

[npaladin-2000]

Ok yeah that works out a little better. Sounds about right too, the Mazdaspeed would probably have fewer options on it than a 3 s GT, the money going towards horsepower instead.

I realized today that there is no real Facebook fan page for the 2014 Mazda3 yet, except for a small German site and a small Thai site. I decided this is a travesty, and have created a new one. In case anyone wants to join as I obsess over the thing.

http://www.facebook.com/2014Mazda3

 

[vi edit]

Not feeling the sedan. Just kinda...boring. But I've felt that way about every 3 sedan vs. the hatchback. The hatches just flat out look better.

New Mazda6 looks great. The new 3 just can't match it in the same agressive, yet elegant design.

I'll need to see the hatch in person. In pictures it looks sort of long and low in the hood and misproportioned. But that's how I felt about the BWM coupes too.

 

[Kaido]

The Trick Way Mazda Gets 40 MPG Out Of The 2014 Mazda6:

http://jalopnik.com/the-trick-way-mazda-gets-40-mpg-out-of-the-2014-mazda6-677270361

 

[phucheneh]

The sedan doesn't have enough deck lid and rear of the hatch has too much slope. Is it just me or do they pretty much look identical from anything other than a rear view?

They went all Cadillac and said 'LOL we put a bump in the back window, now it's a wagon!'

...actually, to be fair, this makes the 'CTS wagon' look like a Buick Roadmaster in comparison. In a good way. I just hate jellybean hatchbacks. Especially when there's a sedan version, which always looks better. See Subaru Impreza. Their wagons (hatches, whatever, same thing anymore) went from awesome to embarassing.

 

[npaladin-2000]

The sedan doesn't have enough deck lid and rear of the hatch has too much slope. Is it just me or do they pretty much look identical from anything other than a rear view?

Both are for aerodynamic purposes, adding the slant to the back of the hatch helps aerodynamically. That's why the sedan is so slanted it may as well be a hatch, because it's more aerodynamic than a more vertical piece of glass to allow for a longer decklid.

 

[hans007]

the new mazdas are seriously gorgeous.

hell the 6 with the special ultra capacitor even gets 40mpg which iis seriously impressive for a car that size.

i guess mazda gettnig divorced from ford and having to really make a great car to survive worked. they have made a really great lineup of cars out of desperation. they've come a long way from the protege days.

really excited to see what the 4th gen mx-5 ends up like.

 

[Leyawiin]

I hope Mazda is successful with its new lineup. We need smaller niche players in the market. I haven't had a Mazda in a few years (owned a 99 Protege and 02 Protege). Both were good in many respects, but after about 50K miles I started having a lot of issues with emissions/fuel system related items failing or gumming up on both. Everything mechanically was very sound though and the interior materials and paint were great - best of any cars I've owned. I'd definitely consider one again when it comes time to buy.

 

[npaladin-2000]

I hope so too, they're one of the few niche manufacturers left. Toyota own a piece of Subaru, and pretty much runs them by offering or withholding money. Suzuki's gone, Mitsu may as well be gone. Not sure who else would count as "niche."

Still, Mazda's doing very well now that they need to, it's nice to see they can still hang with the big boys while remaining independent. Can't wait to see the new MX-5's styling. That's the last one without Kodo styling, and it's been in production since 2005...it's definitely due. Of course, we have to wait for Fiat, since they're partnering up on the design...

I wonder how they'll apply SkyActiv to the CX-9...that will definitely be a challenge.

 

[punjabiplaya]

I hope so too, they're one of the few niche manufacturers left. Toyota own a piece of Subaru, and pretty much runs them by offering or withholding money. Suzuki's gone, Mitsu may as well be gone. Not sure who else would count as "niche."

Still, Mazda's doing very well now that they need to, it's nice to see they can still hang with the big boys while remaining independent. Can't wait to see the new MX-5's styling. That's the last one without Kodo styling, and it's been in production since 2005...it's definitely due. Of course, we have to wait for Fiat, since they're partnering up on the design...

I wonder how they'll apply SkyActiv to the CX-9...that will definitely be a challenge.

Supposedly it's Alfa Romeo. Can you imagine? An alfa styled, Mazda built roadster?

 

[JCH13]

The Trick Way Mazda Gets 40 MPG Out Of The 2014 Mazda6:

http://jalopnik.com/the-trick-way-mazda-gets-40-mpg-out-of-the-2014-mazda6-677270361

Another interesting point in that article:

"More good news if you've been thinking of getting a Mazda6, too: the six-speed manual transmission is now available as an option on the more upscale Touring trim, whereas it was previously only on the bargain Sport level. The 2014 Mazda6 starts at around $20,990 and jumps up to $23,645 for the manual-equipped Touring."

Yay 6spd in touring trim!

Also, about goddamn time someone made a capacitor-based energy recovery system.

 

[npaladin-2000]

Supposedly it's Alfa Romeo. Can you imagine? An alfa styled, Mazda built roadster?

Well, the two cars are supposed to have distinct powertrains. I THINK they're supposed to have distinct styling, but Mazda's doing all the building in their plant for both models, so I don't know how distinct they could get. It would be a shame if that causes the Miata to miss out on Kodo though.

 

[JimKiler]

Another interesting point in that article:

"More good news if you've been thinking of getting a Mazda6, too: the six-speed manual transmission is now available as an option on the more upscale Touring trim, whereas it was previously only on the bargain Sport level. The 2014 Mazda6 starts at around $20,990 and jumps up to $23,645 for the manual-equipped Touring."

Yay 6spd in touring trim!

Also, about goddamn time someone made a capacitor-based energy recovery system.

So far that capacitor doesn't do much for overall fuel efficiency but it does power electronics. Although i see Mazda is claiming 10% fuel savings. I wonder when that changed.

 

[JCH13]

So far that capacitor doesn't do much for overall fuel efficiency but it does power electronics. Although i see Mazda is claiming 10% fuel savings. I wonder when that changed.

The linked article above said 2mpg improvements. That's not bad.

 

[Aharami]

i really want to like this car. But it's just not powerful enough. Cross shopping the Mazda 6 GT and Fusion Titanium. The 6 wins in styling, both interior and out. But the Ford has it in tech and performance.

 

[JCH13]

i really want to like this car. But it's just not powerful enough. Cross shopping the Mazda 6 GT and Fusion Titanium. The 6 wins in styling, both interior and out. But the Ford has it in tech and performance.

What are your metrics for measuring performance?

 

[Aharami]

What are your metrics for measuring performance?

butt dyno. I test drove each car twice. Coming from a manual, both automatics felt shitty and slow (change gears via paddle shifter, a second later the car changes gears). The Fusion with 240 hp/270 lb-ft torque felt noticeably faster than the mazda 6 with 184 hp/185 lb-ft torque during highway merging and onramp acceleration, as well as acceleration from stop.

I said I really want to like this car and I meant that. I think the mazda 6 is gorgeous, esp in that soul red color! Also I love the seats in that car! Probably the best seats in a midsized sedan out now. I would buy this car in a second if mazda offered a more powerful engine in the GT version.

 

[Eureka]

butt dyno. I test drove each car twice. Coming from a manual, both automatics felt shitty and slow (change gears via paddle shifter, a second later the car changes gears). The Fusion with 240 hp/270 lb-ft torque felt noticeably faster than the mazda 6 with 184 hp/185 lb-ft torque during highway merging and onramp acceleration, as well as acceleration from stop.

I said I really want to like this car and I meant that. I think the mazda 6 is gorgeous, esp in that soul red color! Also I love the seats in that car! Probably the best seats in a midsized sedan out now. I would buy this car in a second if mazda offered a more powerful engine in the GT version.

The performance numbers actually agree with your butt dyno. 15.8 seconds to the quarter mile... it's pretty poor by today's standards. The Titanium hits it at 15.1 seconds... that's no small difference.

I do agree, that's the downfall of the mazda6. It's got luxury looks but econobox power. Today's camry v6 pulls a quarter mile at a respectable 14.3 seconds... and that's the most boring sedan in the world!

 

[Aharami]

where are you getting the numbers from, Eureka? I'd like to see 30-60 mph times or 50-80 mph times

 

[Eureka]

where are you getting the numbers from, Eureka? I'd like to see 30-60 mph times or 50-80 mph times

Motortrend and Edmunds are my go-to's. I pulled these numbers fairly quickly from google, if you want to do in-depth compare within the same magazine (more consistent testing conditions).

60 pulls are fairly useless in terms of real world, day-to-day driving. A lot of these 60 times involve burning rubber and that's not how we drive. Quarter miles are more realistic, as it takes into account the extra power required at speeds over 60; these come into play when trying to over-take at highway speeds, for example.

Camry review: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-camry-se-v6-road-test-review
Fusion: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1209_2013_ford_fusion_first_test/viewall.html
Mazda6: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1210_2014_mazda6_first_drive/viewall.html

 

[JCH13]

Yay straight line speed. Don't ignore steering response, braking, suspension, etc.

But hey, if the power is a deal-breaker for you, oh well.

 

[Eureka]

Yay straight line speed. Don't ignore steering response, braking, suspension, etc.

But hey, if the power is a deal-breaker for you, oh well.

The problem is that we're talking about ultimately economy cars. None of these cars will ever have truly superior handling aspects.

Just going off edmunds numbers:

Mazda 2014 Mazda6:
60-0 mph (ft.) 128
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 63.0
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.81
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.82

Toyota 2012 Camry:
60-0 mph (ft.) 129.0
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 61.0 (ESC cannot be disabled above 40 mph)
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 61.0
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.77
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.77

For Camry SE:
60-0 mph (ft.) 123
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 64.6
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.81


Honda 2013 Accord:
60-0 mph (ft.) 128
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 65.2
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 65.5
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.81
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.83

All of these cars will ultimately handle relatively close, and these are under track conditions. Sure the Mazda6 will be more fun to drive, but in the end it doesn't handle day and night over any other sedan. What it does lack, in great amounts, is power.

And because these are economy cars, more than likely you'll never take it to its limits around a track. What you will be doing, day to day, is pulling past other cars, merging, and overtaking. And that's when the straight line power comes in.

Unfortunately, mazda has always been weak in this aspect. You want comfortable and fast, get a camry v6. You want sporty and fast, get an accord v6. You want sporty and anemic, get a mazda.

I have a mazda miata, yes it has superior handling aspects to everything else. But get on the gas and you'll be wishing you had a turbo, supercharger, or damn anything else better than that little 1.8.

 

[exdeath]

I'd take a MS3 over a Camry any day for performance. Even the 3.5L V6 2GR as per typical Toyota fasion hasn't budged from its stale outdated 268 HP since its launch 7+ years ago while everyone else is 300+ with their V6 now.

Toyota always behind on engines sigh.

 

[JCH13]

I can see what you're getting at, but I think you're getting bent out of shape over an issue that doesn't really exist. Sure, you've gotta floor it some times in an under powered car, but it's not as if you'll be unable to pass when needed or merge when needed in any of those three cars. There are very few, if any, situations where the extra few HP is really going to make a difference if you've got a level head.

I'm not saying extra power isn't nice, but it's not requisite to be a safe and reasonable driver.

Edit: and the lack of power equates to materially better fuel economy, which is worth something.

 

[Eureka]

I'd take a MS3 over a Camry any day for performance. Even the 3.5L V6 2GR as per typical Toyota fasion hasn't budged from its stale outdated 268 HP since its launch 7+ years ago while everyone else is 300+ with their V6 now.

Toyota always behind on engines sigh.

Lower engine power, faster times. They put their engines to work.

Also, no offense to JCH13, but I would never get a MS3 as a daily driver. I've driven one, and the first thing you notice is that insane torque steer when the turbo kicks in.

I can see what you're getting at, but I think you're getting bent out of shape over an issue that doesn't really exist. Sure, you've gotta floor it some times in an under powered car, but it's not as if you'll be unable to pass when needed or merge when needed in any of those three cars. There are very few, if any, situations where the extra few HP is really going to make a difference if you've got a level head.

I'm not saying extra power isn't nice, but it's not requisite to be a safe and reasonable driver.

Edit: and the lack of power equates to materially better fuel economy, which is worth something.

I'm not really getting bent out of shape over it. I just don't see the reason to pick a mazda 6 over say, an accord or camry. If all the cars perform the same in circles, but one is better in a line, pick the one that's better in a line.

I really, really like Mazda over Toyota or Honda. I feel they offer an economy car that feels better than the other two. But, at least with the non-speed Mazdas, they have always been behind in terms of power.

In terms of fuel economy... I've never seen majorly poor economy in higher-powered cars. Drivers make more of a difference than engine type, in my experience.