Matt Gaetz ethics report to be released

[Reflex]

Sounds like a cool both sides thread you should start. Nothing you have posted has to do with raping children or drug use or congressional committees sitting on investigations of one of their own.

So yeah you are trying to derail this thread with your own weird obsession about a man who has been out of power for 8 years.

I made the comment and everyone decided to dog pile. I look forward to you policing everyone else as aggressively as you have chosen to police me.

 

[cytg111]

I made the comment and everyone decided to dog pile. I look forward to you policing everyone else as aggressively as you have chosen to police me.

If you really are to the left of progressives then where do you find yourself? Socialism? Communism?

 

[ch33zw1z]

If you really are to the left of progressives then where do you find yourself? Socialism? Communism?

I guess, fascism?

 

[FelixDeCat]

I made the comment and everyone decided to dog pile. I look forward to you policing everyone else as aggressively as you have chosen to police me.

That's what comment fascists do.

 

[Reflex]

If you really are to the left of progressives then where do you find yourself? Socialism? Communism?

I've been a Dem party member and leader for 18 years, including a legislative district chair and vice chair of the county party. I've worked to elect dozens of Democrats in my home state, and I do believe the party is far better than the right, which I was unfortunately raised into. But as someone raised in the far right it saddens me to see how few Dems understand that we are largely a conservative party and we need to more aggressively move leftwards. I have also documented right wing fascism since 2019 and been personally targeted by the Proud Boys and Atomwaffen Division.

As to what I am, a democratic socialist (not DSA) with some leftist anarchist tendencies would probably best describe me at this point. I'm open to communism but I'd need someone to show me a functioning non authoritarian form of communism which nobody seems to have accomplished at scale. Anarco syndicalism holds appeal, Nina Illingworth writes about it and it interests me, but again I'd like to see it in practice at scale. I split time between the US and Portugal and the functioning of a generally socialist European system makes me shake my head at the weak aspirations of the Dem party in the USA.

 

[cytg111]

I've been a Dem party member and leader for 18 years, including a legislative district chair and vice chair of the county party. I've worked to elect dozens of Democrats in my home state, and I do believe the party is far better than the right, which I was unfortunately raised into. But as someone raised in the far right it saddens me to see how few Dems understand that we are largely a conservative party and we need to more aggressively move leftwards. I have also documented right wing fascism since 2019 and been personally targeted by the Proud Boys and Atomwaffen Division.

As to what I am, a democratic socialist (not DSA) with some leftist anarchist tendencies would probably best describe me at this point. I'm open to communism but I'd need someone to show me a functioning non authoritarian form of communism which nobody seems to have accomplished at scale. Anarco syndicalism holds appeal, Nina Illingworth writes about it and it interests me, but again I'd like to see it in practice at scale. I split time between the US and Portugal and the functioning of a generally socialist European system makes me shake my head at the weak aspirations of the Dem party in the USA.

Ah. So basically European then, Scandinavian at least .

 

[JD50]

Isn't Matt Gaetz a gun owner? When will he be charged for lying on a Federal gun purchasing document?

 

[Reflex]

Ah. So basically European then, Scandinavian at least .

I'm mixed on Scandanavian socialism but any of it is better than what we have in the USA. I have plenty of negative points about the EU as well, but at least the social services in even the worst EU members are far superior to the best in the USA.

 

[cytg111]

Yea I forget how far to the right "center" really is in the US.

 

[brycejones]

I made the comment and everyone decided to dog pile. I look forward to you policing everyone else as aggressively as you have chosen to police me.

And then you kept doubling down. Take some fucking responsibility for your own actions. FFS.

 

[cytg111]

I made the comment and everyone decided to dog pile. I look forward to you policing everyone else as aggressively as you have chosen to police me.

Everyone gets in everyone's faces here from time to time, we manage to walk it off though .

 

[Reflex]

And then you kept doubling down. Take some fucking responsibility for your own actions. FFS.

Everyone gets in everyone's faces here from time to time, we manage to walk it off though .

My issue is that I responded to a comment by agreeing and adding that our presidents generally all have this drawback, then everyone dog piled, I defended my comments with evidence and a self appointed forum cop decided that *I* was the one off topic when the thread had been off topic for a while but somehow it was my fault for...defending myself.

I understand it's on topic if you agree with the in group, but off topic if you dare diverge from their groupthink, especially if you point at the evidence.

This is why leftists dislike liberals so much.

 

[Reflex]

Yea I forget how far to the right "center" really is in the US.

It really is. The country is so polarized that the 'center' is almost imaginary, right now it's a center-left and a far right. The National Dems keep tailoring themselves to a center that does not exist while ignoring the actual left that does. The only state that abandoned that strategy, the Washington State Dems, is also the only state that not only expanded their party majority at every level in the state but also took over every single statewide elected office while delivering more votes for Harris than they did for Biden. They did this by being unapologetically on the left.

The state party chair, Shasti Conrad, is now running for a vice chair position with the DNC. Hopefully the members there are smart enough to support her candidacy as most of the others are busy trying to move the party to the right in the misguided belief that it will peel off some of those imaginary centrists they would rather win over than the actual leftists the party has been leaving behind.

Shasti, btw, was the chair of the King County Dems, and I was her vice chair. Her and I revolutionized county politics by striking left rather than right, and vastly expanded the wins during our time there before she took over the state party. She's awesome and I was fortunate to work with her. She was a former senior Sanders advisor and was a high levelf staffer in the Obama white house.

 

[cytg111]

My issue is that I responded to a comment by agreeing and adding that our presidents generally all have this drawback, then everyone dog piled, I defended my comments with evidence and a self appointed forum cop decided that *I* was the one off topic when the thread had been off topic for a while but somehow it was my fault for...defending myself.

I understand it's on topic if you agree with the in group, but off topic if you dare diverge from their groupthink, especially if you point at the evidence.

This is why leftists dislike liberals so much.

If you knew the amount of old-timer accounts that has suddenly reactivated and been super active in atpn with weird behavior over the years you'd get it. As for groupthink I believe 95% here wants single payer for the US... That is sort of US-progressive I think.

 

[Reflex]

If you knew the amount of old-timer accounts that has suddenly reactivated and been super active in atpn with weird behavior over the years you'd get it. As for groupthink I believe 95% here wants single payer for the US... That is sort of US-progressive I think.

I took care of my father and my aunt through to the end, they had early on set dementia. My father I took care of in the USA, his last year alone ran up $160k in medical bills, despite me caring for him in my home. My aunt I moved to Portugal with me. In two years despite the alzheimer's care, a dozen plus hospital visits, a heart attack, a cancerous tumor requiring surgery, a month in the hospital and radiation, plus a ton of other issues (she had terrible health) cost me...20 euros. And the care was top notch.

Consider me a full on convert.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Regardless of what you personally believe, extrajudicially assassinating americans is a violation of due process, and assassinations themselves are against US policy since the 70's and yet Obama did more of that than any president in decades. Plus, yes he committed dozens of war crimes in the process, such as double tap drone strikes.

Those are things that fascists do, it doesn't make Obama a fascist. Fascists also take shits, it doesn't make everyone who takes a shit a fascist.

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't Matt Gaetz a gun owner? When will he be charged for lying on a Federal gun purchasing document?

You’re going to be blown away when he’s not!

Even better, you will see conservatives talk about how pardoning Hunter Biden for the exact same crime is a terrible abuse.

To me the Hunter pardon is complicated because if he wasn’t the president’s son he never would have been charged but he also clearly broke the law. Not sure how to square all that.

What I am confident in though is that conservatives will make no effort to do so.

 

[mikeymikec]

My issue is that I responded to a comment by agreeing and adding that our presidents generally all have this drawback, then everyone dog piled, I defended my comments with evidence and a self appointed forum cop decided that *I* was the one off topic when the thread had been off topic for a while but somehow it was my fault for...defending myself.

I understand it's on topic if you agree with the in group, but off topic if you dare diverge from their groupthink, especially if you point at the evidence.

This is why leftists dislike liberals so much.

Mmhmm, uh-huh, groupthink!

 

[ch33zw1z]

Essentially in your mind it isn't fascism until all aspects are 100% accomplished and the nation is under the boot. In reality fascism grows over time in that direction, with a variety of policies that enable fascism, and a series of leaders who either push one or another policy forward or who decline to oppose existing fascist policies. This is an age old debate, but the most common "it's not fascist" line of argument is the one you are making, and it's most commonly made by the far right to claim that since it's not *all* in place we can't call it fascism.

In reality the US has had elements of fascism from it's very founding, and they have never been expunged. Germany learned from us, and we since then have done very little to counter our fascist tendencies. Our 'leftist' leaders are to the right of virtually every major democracy in the world, and leaders like Obama would be considered center right in most of the world.

Again, I like Obama, he was the best president of my lifetime. But he supported explicitly fascist policies around border security and surveillance, and perpetuated war crimes overseas, many of which he personally authorized. It is not wrong to point this out. Being able to admit to this is how we are NOT a cult of personality like the right has become.

That’s not how my mind sees it. Thanks for long explanation on how you’re going to just redefine a word so it sounds good to your feels.

 

[nickqt]

Essentially in your mind it isn't fascism until all aspects are 100% accomplished and the nation is under the boot. In reality fascism grows over time in that direction, with a variety of policies that enable fascism, and a series of leaders who either push one or another policy forward or who decline to oppose existing fascist policies. This is an age old debate, but the most common "it's not fascist" line of argument is the one you are making, and it's most commonly made by the far right to claim that since it's not *all* in place we can't call it fascism.

In reality the US has had elements of fascism from it's very founding, and they have never been expunged. Germany learned from us, and we since then have done very little to counter our fascist tendencies. Our 'leftist' leaders are to the right of virtually every major democracy in the world, and leaders like Obama would be considered center right in most of the world.

Again, I like Obama, he was the best president of my lifetime. But he supported explicitly fascist policies around border security and surveillance, and perpetuated war crimes overseas, many of which he personally authorized. It is not wrong to point this out. Being able to admit to this is how we are NOT a cult of personality like the right has become.

This isn't to dogpile, but your use of the word "fascist" isn't correct for Obama. He was not and is not a fascist.

The US is an Empire, and Obama was President and did exert his Imperial Powers as all US Presidents have done to some extent, for the past 140+ years. This is...empirically true, pseudo-pun intended.

As someone who is against Empire, I have and continue to criticize Obama for his drone terrorism policies, and yes, having flying death robots patrolling the skies of other sovereign countries is terrorism under every definition of the word, minus the policy statement of the country performing said drone terrorism.

I'm a self-described anarcho-syndicalist for what it's worth. No, it isn't a policy that can be implemented anywhere anytime soon, but it is my political ideology and foundational political philosophy, since you've actually brought it up recently in this thread. Pragmatically, I'm a social democrat, or whatever phrase people want to use that states the US government should be run to maximize the quality of life of all of its citizens, which is ALWAYS in 100% opposition of what the richest and most powerful people in the world demand that the US government should be used for.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I took care of my father and my aunt through to the end, they had early on set dementia. My father I took care of in the USA, his last year alone ran up $160k in medical bills, despite me caring for him in my home. My aunt I moved to Portugal with me. In two years despite the alzheimer's care, a dozen plus hospital visits, a heart attack, a cancerous tumor requiring surgery, a month in the hospital and radiation, plus a ton of other issues (she had terrible health) cost me...20 euros. And the care was top notch.

Consider me a full on convert.

I always supported private healthcare over single payer but after watching video after video of how things are "affordable" in other countries if we all pay into a single system that covers you no matter what, despite the cost, I was finally convinced.

The garbage plan I have now has a $3,000 deductible I never seem to meet (I paid $2,990 this year) and the cost will increase to $200 a month starting next year from $150. My employer is now contributing $500 to our HSA's as a bit of a rebate, and that is great, so long as you never actually use the insurance.

And this is why under ACA with their high denial rates (I was denied for a $4,000 claim one year and it DID NOT count towards my deductible), insurance company profits are at all time highs. They find ways to game the law and through lobbyists get away it.

We need socialized medicine and a 5% increase to pay for it over all tax brackets. You can still have a private plan where you get denied on the side if you like but its not really necessary.

Under this admin however, dont count on it.

 

[MrSquished]

I always supported private healthcare over single payer but after watching video after video of how things are "affordable" in other countries if we all pay into a single system that covers you no matter what, despite the cost, I was finally convinced.

The garbage plan I have now has a $3,000 deductible I never seem to meet (I paid $2,990 this year) and the cost will increase to $200 a month starting next year from $150. My employer is now contributing $500 to our HSA's as a bit of a rebate, and that is great, so long as you never actually use the insurance.

And this is why under ACA with their high denial rates (I was denied for a $4,000 claim one year and it DID NOT count towards my deductible), insurance company profits are at all time highs. They find ways to game the law and through lobbyists get away it.

We need socialized medicine and a 5% increase to pay for it over all tax brackets. You can still have a private plan where you get denied on the side if you like but its not really necessary.

Under this admin however, dont count on it.

Don't forget, you are in the party of family values.

I hope you had a shitty Christmas btw

 

[cytg111]

For fucks sake...

 

[HomerJS]

Why is this so hard to prove? There are plenty guys in prison who's defense was, "I didn't know she was under 18"

Just get the girls birth certificate, the date they banged and prosecute.

 

[fskimospy]

Why is this so hard to prove? There are plenty guys in prison who's defense was, "I didn't know she was under 18"

Just get the girls birth certificate, the date they banged and prosecute.

If memory serves the women were unreliable witnesses for some reason.