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Master's that weren't worth it

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all of those stories basically come down to this:

they were unexceptional people, got sucked in by the allure of a particular field without doing proper research, went to a cheap/crappy school, and expected to land a great job afterwards.


my advice to anyone is to get a job after your ba/bs and work for a few years, both to build up experience and to determine if a masters degree is really in your best interest.
 
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It depends on the required level of "safer". There has been lightweight foam that will stop a bat to the head with no pain (i.e. 99% safer). That material can only be made by a chemist of some sort.
More info. I wonder if the xgames kid had been wearing that, if he would have lived. Yet I digress. Bottom line is only a chemist can make these new revolutionary materials, and without chemists we wouldn't be making such advances.

You really don't know what you're talking about. D30 was created by a materials engineer. It's basically silica nanoparticles embedded in silicone. From a chemistry standpoint, you don't need much creativity or jobs. To make hs first prototype, he probably bought some silica nanoparticals form Aldrich and mixed it with silly putty. This is not the kind thing you hire chemists for.
 
my advice to anyone is to get a job after your ba/bs and work for a few years, both to build up experience and to determine if a masters degree is really in your best interest.

You're overlooking the most important factor -- employer tuition reimbursement, which will mitigate some (or most) of the risk of getting a Master's degree in the first place.
 
Nothing. I think the best-case scenario for this program (at Ole Miss) is to get a PhD in Southern Culture, then teach Southern Culture at Ole Miss. Her thesis was going to be about beauty pageants. Ugh . . .

LOL

My thesis was going to be about fractal image compression -- god, that was boring stuff.
 
You really don't know what you're talking about. D30 was created by a materials engineer. It's basically silica nanoparticles embedded in silicone. From a chemistry standpoint, you don't need much creativity or jobs. To make hs first prototype, he probably bought some silica nanoparticals form Aldrich and mixed it with silly putty. This is not the kind thing you hire chemists for.

You're full of shit dude. If anyone could have done it before his team of scientists did, then it would have been invented way before 2006. Why didn't you do it if it was so easy? Only chemists could have created this and made it in its current elastic state.
Working with the D3O base material they tried countless elastic polymers, yet none of them wanted to mix with the D3O ”they would just lump together” said Palmer. Finally they found a formula that would work, which is still a company secret.

Also:
How is D3O made?
D3O has an in-house team of chemists and designers, who customise the material for bespoke protection.

http://www.d3o.com/about/faqs/

If you thought they didn't need chemists to create and improve that material than you're dumb as a rock.
 
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You're overlooking the most important factor -- employer tuition reimbursement, which will mitigate some (or most) of the risk of getting a Master's degree in the first place.


true. I can only speak for IT, but so far the 3 employers I've had since college don't offer any form of reimbursement for IT/developer staff. Not small companies either. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't ubiquitous and so not always an option.

if you can get it reimbursed and you like your current employer, there's no reason not to. there's usually a pay bump waiting for you at the other end.
 
...But education does not trump experience.

So much this. Regardless of your level of education, you work hard at the shit jobs to prove your competency and *earn* a better job.

The days of walking into a good job with just raw education are mostly over due to the contracting market and the glut of well educated unemployed.

Even I know this! (Now someone go tell the guy from the article.)
 
Niche fields of law like patent law may still be viable, although I have no idea about that at this time. You're smart to look into it, though, and not just blindly buy the hype that JD=big salary.

If you have good experience in IP, finding a job is not terribly hard. But if you are just coming out of law school, finding a job in IP or any other legal field is very, very difficult right now.

I taught a patent law class for a couple of years at one of the best IP schools in the country. Of the 20 or so students I had, 12 had PhDs, 3 had a BS in mechanical engineering, 1 had a BS in electrical engineering, and 4 had a BS in some other field. None of them had any actual IP experience. To my knowledge, the only student who has landed a job is the one with the EE. All of the others have been searching for almost 15 months now.
 
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I'm contemplating getting a Master's in Public Administration. Having been in the public sector for almost 10 years, with Land Use Planning and Social Services experience under my belt, I'll be an Assistant Director for some agency in no time!
 
Strange that a field that averages 86K median salary would be on the worst degrees to get list? Even at slower 3% growth, you would think there is still a need for chemists in the materials industry. For example, who is going to be instrumental in creating new shock absorping helmets for the NFL/NHL? Chemists.

Materials Science =/ chemistry, but they often go hand in hand. FWIW, My BS is/was focused on analytical chemistry, and all of my (pre-IP) lab experience was directed at developing new low observable materials for military applications. New materials have certainly opened avenues to new products (consider synthesized diamonds, for example), but optimal use of known materials is another viable avenue to new/safer products as well.

It is clear that you are evaluating the value of a masters in chemistry based on median salary alone. What you are not considering is the overall lack of jobs in that market.

Also, the example job you posted is not really relevant to the discussion. Its a sales position, which requires an MS and experience in business development in the mass spec area. Business development/sales positions will almost always pay more than a bench/lab position.

FWIW, I agree that having an MS in chemistry might open some doors. But those doors generally lead to very small rooms and there are quite a lot of people trying to crowd through them.
 
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I'm on the academic job market right now, in the field of physical anthropology. I research evolutionary anatomy and genetics (i.e. I'm in the life sciences). This is my first year on the market. I've applied for 19 jobs. I've been outright rejected by nine, shortlisted by three, and have had one on-campus interview. The others I'll hear from within the next few months.

Of note, my one interview was at a medical school, not in an anthropology or even biology department. My field is structured such that we can research just about anything related to human evolution/biology, but time and time again I've seen my peers decline training/experience in anatomy because they wanted to study genetics, or pass on population dynamics because they wanted to study anatomy, or something similar. In other words, they did not take advantage of opportunities to broaden their backgrounds (and therefore increase the number of jobs they could apply for).

I tell my undergraduate anthro major students that anthropology can be a fine, employable degree if you're smart about it. I've had students go into finance (the equations used to model the populations of animals are the same as those used to model populations of money), programming (programming population genetics analyses prepares you to program lots of other things), business (learning a foreign language and becoming truly fluent not just in a foreign language but also that foreign culture is great when you add business classes), and of course solidly middle class lab jobs. I've also seen a lot of undergraduates working at Starbucks after they graduate because knowing about Native American culture (and not much else) is not exactly economically viable.

For PhDs, the job market is truly brutal. You have to be not only truly exceptional on paper, but also in person. I have seen folks in my field passed over time and time again because of their ahhh, 'subprime' personalities, despite their stellar CVs. I think most graduate programs do a poor to piss poor job of preparing scientists for the real world.

What saddens and amuses me more than anything else, though, is that almost all of my friends/acquaintances/colleagues are floored by the number of applications I've sent to schools. This is what I hear:
'That's not a very good school. Why did you apply there?'
'That's not a prestigious school. Why would you want to work there?'
'You know that's a teaching job, and you won't be able to do much research, right?'
'They don't pay very well. I wouldn't work for that little money.'
'The school is where? You couldn't pay me enough to live there.'

In other words, most people (at least people I know and speak with) think they are above a lot of jobs. Or they don't realize that geographic mobility/flexibility is critically important when you're a specialist like a research scientist. You have to be able to move to where the jobs are. You have to be willing to take a lower-paying position at a less than Ivy League school. I know my degrees from Michigan and Wisconsin do not entitle me to work at equivalent institutions.

As others have noted, the BS/BA became the new HS diploma, and now the MS/MA is becoming the new BS/BA. Not even a PhD entitles you to your 'dream job' - and too many people apparently have entirely unrealistic expectations about their graduate degrees.

I think most importantly, though, is that folks don't think about the ROI of an advanced degree. I absolutely would not have pursued a PhD if the school (and the state's kindly taxpayers) weren't paying for all of it. I have friends with six-figure student loan debts going into the humanities. That, to me, is the epitome of unrealistic, poor planning.

Like IndyColtsFan said, he would've been an astronomer or historian if he could've been. But there are economic realities to acknowledge and work with. ICF, I bet you still spend a lot of free time reading up on astronomy and history, yes? Just because you don't do something for a living, doesn't mean you can't still enjoy it. Not everyone's passions are employable...
 
If the people who actually work in the field earn 86k, it doesn't mean that there aren't hordes of jobless grads doing nothing for months.
That's probably why it came out worst in the list. Because of other more meaningful stats such as:
* X% of the class who has a relevant job after Y months
* median entry-level salary

the mid-career median salaries can be as high as you want but these stats measure how easy it will be to pay your debt and start a career.
 
Doing what you love is great and all, but unfortunately you can't pay bills with happiness and satisfaction. This means you have 2 options:
1. Get a degree/trade skill in something that is actually marketable and has pay commiserate with your desired standard of living.
2. Lower your standard of living and do something that pays less, but you enjoy more.

I do feel bad for people who went route #1, only to discover that the job market shrank while they were in school. Unfortunately, just complaining about it and/or refusing to take a different job isn't going to fix anything. Take a job where you can at least get some professional work experience, even if it isn't in your field. Keep applying and keep learning.
 
You're full of shit dude. If anyone could have done it before his team of scientists did, then it would have been invented way before 2006. Why didn't you do it if it was so easy? Only chemists could have created this and made it in its current elastic state.

As someone for whom this is their wheelhouse (I work in materials), it's not as complicated as it looks.

I'm certainly not disparaging their creativity or hard work. Their materials approach is brilliant, and the type of thing that has really only become a hot field in the last decade. I'm more trying to get across that what they did is not really the job of synthetic chemists. Even if their product did require custom polymerization, unless it requires monomer synthesis or the use of block copolymers (extremely unlikely), you really don't need a chemist for that.

Instead of trying to bicker over semantics and the meaning of the word "chemist" on a marketing website, let's talk about where chemists are useful in the materials world. You need chemists to create polymer architectures able to interact with biological systems. This includes non-fouling and anti-fouling surfaces, non-immunogenic materials for implants, polymer systems for drug delivery, polymer core-shell nanoparticals. They're also needed for things like self-healing materials, self-assembled block copolymer materials for everything from lithographic processes to water filters.

We actually agree on a more central point, which is that polymer chemists are needed for materials development, you just chose a specific field that didn't need them. Edit: and to bring it back to the OP, while this field is increasing, it's still much smaller than pharma, which is why the overall number of chemists being hired is going down.
 
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As others have noted, the BS/BA became the new HS diploma, and now the MS/MA is becoming the new BS/BA. Not even a PhD entitles you to your 'dream job' - and too many people apparently have entirely unrealistic expectations about their graduate degrees.


"Nearly 2 in 25 people age 25 and over have a master’s, about the same proportion that had a bachelor’s or higher in 1960." --NYTimes

"There are, for example, roughly a million sales clerks, 300,000 waiters and 100,000 janitors with college degrees."--Investors.com


Appreciate your post.

Best of luck with your job search.

Uno
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/my-master-s-wasn-t-worth-it-173855765.html?page=2

6sean-jpg_175123.jpg


crazy

If that was the best photo he could find for a news story, no wonder he can't get a job. He'd never get a date either - not with that photo.

He doesn't need to be pretty - but he does need to look like he cares.
 
As someone for whom this is their wheelhouse (I work in materials), it's not as complicated as it looks.

I'm certainly not disparaging their creativity or hard work. Their materials approach is brilliant, and the type of thing that has really only become a hot field in the last decade. I'm more trying to get across that what they did is not really the job of synthetic chemists. Even if their product did require custom polymerization, unless it requires monomer synthesis or the use of block copolymers (extremely unlikely), you really don't need a chemist for that.

Instead of trying to bicker over semantics and the meaning of the word "chemist" on a marketing website, let's talk about where chemists are useful in the materials world. You need chemists to create polymer architectures able to interact with biological systems. This includes non-fouling and anti-fouling surfaces, non-immunogenic materials for implants, polymer systems for drug delivery, polymer core-shell nanoparticals. They're also needed for things like self-healing materials, self-assembled block copolymer materials for everything from lithographic processes to water filters.

We actually agree on a more central point, which is that polymer chemists are needed for materials development, you just chose a specific field that didn't need them. Edit: and to bring it back to the OP, while this field is increasing, it's still much smaller than pharma, which is why the overall number of chemists being hired is going down.

I believe you when you say you work in materials. However, I don't think D3O would lie on their website about employing chemists just so it looks cool from a marketing standpoint and chemists had to be involved in creating said material to get it elastic.

I agree with you and others who have presented information that the chemist field is only increasing by 3% a year which is pretty low. It seems that if you can actually get a job, then you'll make the 86K median but the majority of jobs are mostly already filled. Worst comes to worst, there is still teaching.
 
Like IndyColtsFan said, he would've been an astronomer or historian if he could've been. But there are economic realities to acknowledge and work with. ICF, I bet you still spend a lot of free time reading up on astronomy and history, yes?

Yes, more so on history, especially ancient Roman and medieval history. I've become a voracious reader the last few years and history is my main subject. Since I couldn't get a degree in those, you're right on the approach -- make it your passion and a hobby, which is what I've tried to do.
 
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