Master's that weren't worth it

[SP33Demon]

My comment was directed to people with life science degrees who want to work in the life sciences (e.g., in a lab).

To the extent your comment was directed at me specifically, I don't use my BS in the traditional sense, as you might be aware from my other posts. My career path is as follows: BS in chem -> physical scientist in a government lab -> patent examiner -> law school focusing on intellectual property -> student associate in large patent firm -> associate in large patent firm -> in-house patent counsel -> senior patent attorney in a small firm. FWIW, I have competed with folks with PhD's for IP jobs on many occasions and have come out on top. That is because in my line of work, being able to formulate cogent written arguments, having demonstrated good judgment, and having a flexible mind that can learn new technologies quickly is more valuable than having a lot of knowledge about one specific area of one specific type of technology. Sure, having a PhD will give someone new to the IP market a leg up on someone new without a PhD. But education does not trump experience.

That said, I'm happy to consider the study if you care to post/link to it. I'm betting that it speaks broadly to the value of "a" masters (as in, the value of masters degrees "in general"), but isn't granular enough to report on the value of a masters degrees in the life sciences.

I agree that education doesn't trump experience, but you better have a lot of it if you don't have an advanced degree. Even 5 years, in many cases, will not be enough to equalize the difference from BS->MS. I'd also be more apt to hire someone who got their MS while in the job force as well, since they had the ability to hold down a job and still get an advanced degree (vs people who just do BS->MS right away).

The study for MS and PhD was just that, more on a broad level where overall they are still the most desirable applicants for a job in this economy. The Economist article did say that a PhD in other sciences (non social) was worth it though.

 

[Markbnj]

but for the middle class and below, college has always been about upward mobility and attempting to land in a career to make that happen. It is time we take off the blinders and become a little more pragmatic -- majoring in sociology because "you love it" will likely not do anything for you except land you in debt.

Especially now, when paying for college has become the equivalent of buying another house... per kid. Many young adults are graduating with five or six figures of debt from tuition loans. That's killer even if you do land a great job. Higher education is fast becoming a privilege of the wealthy.

As for the guy in the story... something's wrong there.

 

[brainhulk]

I also think there are too many dumb people that go to college. They go into engineering or science majors, then get weeded out when the real classes hit. They fail and then switch their major to social sciences, history, or some other easy major which will end up becoming a waste of money.

 

[Mursilis]

Yeah, this makes me regret not going into patent law when I graduated with my engineering degree in 1993. Had I done so, I would've landed when the law job market was healthy and would probably be in really good shape now. I'm looking at a possible career switch and law school is something I've thought long and hard about, but the massive debt and the uncertain prospects (new law grads who find jobs make much less than I do now) are scaring me away.

Niche fields of law like patent law may still be viable, although I have no idea about that at this time. You're smart to look into it, though, and not just blindly buy the hype that JD=big salary.

 

[brainhulk]

It all goes back to an argument I've made here over and over again -- people need to look at a degree as an investment and need to analyze the anticipated ROI before embarking on a degree program. The problem is that too many people selected a degree based on "what they (allegedly) 'love'" or pick the easiest major available just to get a degree. In many (most?) cases, neither of these options will lead to a good career path and often result in loads of debt.

Oh, and before the "college is to become educated and more well rounded" crowd shows up, let me say: bullshit. That was (and probably still is) true for the wealthy, but for the middle class and below, college has always been about upward mobility and attempting to land in a career to make that happen. It is time we take off the blinders and become a little more pragmatic -- majoring in sociology because "you love it" will likely not do anything for you except land you in debt.

Oh, and for the record -- if money and career path were no concern, I would've majored in history or astronomy.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Could it be that he looks downright insane???

 

[Gibsons]

Especially now, when paying for college has become the equivalent of buying another house... per kid. Many young adults are graduating with five or six figures of debt from tuition loans. That's killer even if you do land a great job. Higher education is fast becoming a privilege of the wealthy.

As for the guy in the story... something's wrong there.

A Masters in molecular biology is a near worthless degree. A B.S. with 2 years experience is just as competitive, if not more. On top of that, there's a huge surplus of Ph.Ds.

 

[SP33Demon]

Forbes ranked a Master's degree in Chemistry as one of the worst Master's degree you could get in 2011 based on the following criteria:

Strange that a field that averages 86K median salary would be on the worst degrees to get list? Even at slower 3% growth, you would think there is still a need for chemists in the materials industry. For example, who is going to be instrumental in creating new shock absorping helmets for the NFL/NHL? Chemists.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

A BA in physics? Good luck with that.

You know, at my undergrad, a BA was what you got if you did a BS + a foreign language elective.

But hey, what do I know, I have an MM.

 

[unokitty]

Its terms of expected earnings, its pretty clear that graduate degrees alone are not a panacea.

Georgetown's Center on Education and the Workforce reports that:

-- 28% of people with an Associate’s degree make more than the median of workers with a Bachelor’s degree.
-- 40% of people with a Bachelor’s degree earn more than the median of workers with a Master’s degree.

They further report that "...the actual job that someone does — the work they perform — has a significant effect on earnings."

Imagine that.

Uno

 

[crashtestdummy]

Strange that a field that averages 86K median salary would be on the worst degrees to get list? Even at slower 3% growth, you would think there is still a need for chemists in the materials industry. For example, who is going to be instrumental in creating new shock absorping helmets for the NFL/NHL? Chemists.

Actually, that's mostly engineers. The polymers in those designs aren't new, so there's very little chemistry to be done. Materials and mechanical engineers will really do most of the work on something like that.

 

[sunzt]

Strange that a field that averages 86K median salary would be on the worst degrees to get list? Even at slower 3% growth, you would think there is still a need for chemists in the materials industry. For example, who is going to be instrumental in creating new shock absorping helmets for the NFL/NHL? Chemists.

A) Engineers are going to create safer helmets for the helmet company.

B) Chemists or Material Science Engineers may create new materials to help improve helmet components.

B isn't required to make safer helmets.

 

[gorcorps]

This guy must be doing something wrong... I had 4 interviews from a single career fair and I wasn't a great student.

 

[Ferzerp]

You know, at my undergrad, a BA was what you got if you did a BS + a foreign language elective.

But hey, what do I know, I have an MM.

In schools that offer both a BS and a BA, typically, the BA is the BS + extra, it isn't less. I know that's the way it was at mine.


Also, in a pure science, you either get a BA/BS and are a peon, or get a PhD and are the normal level. There is no opportunity for less than a PhD. The guy should have known that. I have a BS in a pure science, and do something entirely different. Masters just means you've finished half your PhD and are still a peon.

 

[Mixolydian]

More people need to consider going into trades.

 

[DougK62]

Judging by the picture that the guy in this story presumably chose himself to include for the news piece, I'd say he likely is book smart but has absolutely no idea how the real world works.

 

[pauldun170]

Here is one thing a lot of articles such as this leave out.
If your personality doesn't mesh with the existing culture (Your an asshole or perhaps just creepy) all the degrees in the world are not going to land you a job.

When confronted by rejected applicants, it is a lot easier to toss BS quips such as
"You are over qualified"
"You know that affirmative action is the only reason..."
than it is to say
"We discovered during the 2nd interview that you were a bit of stuck up prick and you creeped out the admin"

 

[gorcorps]

More people need to consider going into trades.

True story. I'm in the industrial field and it's hard to find good electricians to replace the ones retiring.

 

[bonkers325]

The thing I see in common with the people on the website is that they thought a degree is enough to get their foot in the door. A degree is enough to get people to look at you seriously, you still need to be a good candidate in order to get your foot in the door.

Long story short, you're probably not getting hired because you aren't fit for the positions you are applying for.

 

[randomrogue]

I probably sound like a broken record, but I've been considering an MBA for a couple of years now and just can't make up my mind. I'm not sure that the ROI is there for me and depending on where I go, the cost could be significant.

I nearly completed my MSEE many years ago (completed all the classwork but had some thesis work to do) but I "paused" it when life got in the way and never completed it. I think it is too late to go back for it now but maybe I should see what my options are as it could allow me to switch careers.

I started the MBA program and dropped out half way through the first semester. I was going to one of top 10 schools in the US so I figured it would be a good thing to have but in reality an MBA is used solely for contacts. The classes were a giant joke and I was bored silly. You spend most of your time just meeting people, talking about their experiences, making contacts, and then when you graduate having the hookups to land a good job.

I already had contacts so I dropped out and got a good job without the MBA.

It's a guild system. Why are Masters degrees worth more than a BS? Because employers who have a masters degree want to hire people with a masters degree. They'll go to them first. Nobody here is going to hire a highschool dropout right? And shit, we all busted our ass to get our XY degree so we need someone else who did that too. Lets be realistic though, you use almost nothing from your education in the workplace. All it did was prove you could do it.

 

[gorcorps]

I started the MBA program and dropped out half way through the first semester. I was going to one of top 10 schools in the US so I figured it would be a good thing to have but in reality an MBA is used solely for contacts. The classes were a giant joke and I was bored silly. You spend most of your time just meeting people, talking about their experiences, making contacts, and then when you graduate having the hookups to land a good job.

I already had contacts so I dropped out and got a good job without the MBA.

It's a guild system. Why are Masters degrees worth more than a BS? Because employers who have a masters degree want to hire people with a masters degree. They'll go to them first. Nobody here is going to hire a highschool dropout right? And shit, we all busted our ass to get our XY degree so we need someone else who did that too. Lets be realistic though, you use almost nothing from your education in the workplace. All it did was prove you could do it.

Like you said, depends on the employer though. My company wants to see a masters to get past certain management levels. Obviously it's not necessary if someone is judged to be that good for the job, but they greatly prefer it. They pay for the mba though as long as you complete it so it's not like it's YOUR money wasted, just time.

 

[SP33Demon]

A) Engineers are going to create safer helmets for the helmet company.

B) Chemists or Material Science Engineers may create new materials to help improve helmet components.

B isn't required to make safer helmets.

It depends on the required level of "safer". There has been lightweight foam that will stop a bat to the head with no pain (i.e. 99% safer). That material can only be made by a chemist of some sort.
More info. I wonder if the xgames kid had been wearing that, if he would have lived... or this could be the future of football helmets. Yet I digress. Bottom line is only a chemist can make these new revolutionary materials, and without chemists we wouldn't be making such advances.

Energy is distributed throughout the synthetic elastomeric polymer and the enhanced chemistry continues to distribute energy on throughout the matrix, reducing the effect of impact.[4]

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

My sister has what I believe may be the most useless Master's in history: Southern Culture. Actually I think she never finished her thesis, so she has the most useless not-quite-Master's in history.

 

[Mursilis]

My sister has what I believe may be the most useless Master's in history: Southern Culture. Actually I think she never finished her thesis, so she has the most useless not-quite-Master's in history.

And what is she doing with that?

 

[Gibsons]

My sister has what I believe may be the most useless Master's in history: Southern Culture. Actually I think she never finished her thesis, so she has the most useless not-quite-Master's in history.

My niece was considering a Master's in Gender Studies. Southern Culture might have that beat though.