Massive Meteor Shower -Activates Russian Nuke Defense Systems

[Gintaras]

LOL @ thinking a SAM is going to track and hit something moving that fast.

The US is the world leader in airborne interception, and we don't even have it down. And ICBMs are a tad slower.

Title is misleading, Russia is behind on MIRV defense, although the S-400 and S-500 can and will compete/exceed current Patriot 3 systems for non ICBM threats.

What kind of leader, if unable to intercept a few passenger aircrafts on 9/11?

 

[benzylic]

I think most experts agree that nukes would be ineffective.

I think most experts would agree that there would be no chance of detecting and stopping something of this size, and no point in looking for them.

They are looking for big rocks, not these puny pebbles.

I think most experts would also agree that the best method we have to deflect them currently is by finding them decades or hundreds of years before they will hit Earth, and then simply orbiting them with something massive which can pull away ever so slowly, and thus use it's gravity to pull the asteroid into another path.

Here's an interesting after action report from a role play NASA and other gov't agencies conducted in 2008 about an object hitting earth. Ive really only skimmed so far it but they mention at one point 7 years advance warning of something hitting earth was way to short of time, and 15 years or even longer was better.

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/Natural_Impact_After_Action_Report.pdf

 

[Red Squirrel]

This is crazy, it's like something from a movie. While it's nothing that insane from a science point of view, these are everywhere in space, but to actually have one hit us, and get to see video footage of it from all these different angles is quite incredible. While this is awesome to see, it's unfortunate for those who were wounded though.

I can just imagine the sheer panic at first, since most would probably figure it's some kind of missile, and not actually a natural occurrence. It's also neat to see that they have automated interception techniques in case of missile and that it actually caught it. Good test of their system I guess. Did not realize those systems were automated.

 

[Jeff7]

Here's the issue, it's a minutely small chance to begin with. We have a very limited space budget as it is with people not even wanting to do real research into anything space anymore. So we're going to use what money to fund this? What telescope time are we going to use?

Small chance - sort of.
We had an airburst over Tunguska a bit over 100 years ago, and that flattened a large swath of forest. Now we just saw another airburst that caused a good bit of damage.
Yes, those are small objects, with relatively low consequences. Maybe "just" a city lost if they'd hit.

The other half of that coin of risk is the consequences. There's a low risk of it happening during our lifetime, high risk of it happening at all, and potentially-cataclysmic consequences if it does happen.

We can't take away what little resources we have for scientific research and development on space to fund wackadoo shit like this. If you can find a way to fund it then I'll be all for it, but it's not going to get funded by the government. Maybe universities or some fund. The only way the government is going to fund it is when something does hit the planet and kill tons of people. Had that rock in Russia hit a city and killed thousands then maybe, or maybe stamp Al Qaeda on it. Then NASA and these kinds of projects get funded. Maybe more telescopes and equipment get sourced.

I'd love for all the wasted money and computer time to be used on this than something stupid like SETI, so maybe that can happen, I just don't see it nor support it coming out of NASA's already small budget.

1) Development of the technology to detect and deflect asteroids would surely lead to benefits for us. Flying people to the Moon and back would seem to have few practical benefits, but it was an excellent PR campaign for the STEM fields. "Defend Earth and humanity from deadly space rocks!" Maybe it won't attract quite the attention as a Moon shot, but it's still something to get people interested in those fields, and likely generate some interesting new technology and scientific knowledge.
2) Who says NASA's budget will be decreased? This could just as well boost their budget considerably. Now, yes, you'd have to watch how that budget is allocated; I'd also hate to see things like the missions to Mars or Jupiter's moons suffer as a result. Those produce valuable findings as well.

The only way the government is going to fund it is when something does hit the planet and kill tons of people.

....Yet you're here saying that we'd be wasting money if we'd try to prevent that very thing.
So is your ideal route to a good asteroid deflection program to simply wait until something hits us good and hard, wipes out 10% of the population, and then try to figure out how to prevent the problem again? Of course, if our ability to launch any manner of spacecraft was destroyed or disabled during the impact, I guess there'd be no point to even starting research on a deflection project until launch capability was restored. :hmm:

Here's an interesting after action report from a role play NASA and other gov't agencies conducted in 2008 about an object hitting earth. Ive really only skimmed so far it but they mention at one point 7 years advance warning of something hitting earth was way to short of time, and 15 years or even longer was better.

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/Natural_Impact_After_Action_Report.pdf

Yeah...momentum's a bitch.
Let's convince a 150-ton rock, moving at 50,000mph, that it really needs to stop moving in the particular straight line that it's on.
That's going to take a lot of effort.

 

[randay]

Quote:
Originally Posted by phucheneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweak155
Unreal.
Quake.
Doom

Wolfenstein

 

[BladeVenom]

It's been hours and we still don't have an answer to the really important question.

Is it a pallasite?

Pallasites

The one Nasa guy I listened to said since it broke up in the atmosphere it was probably chondrite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrite

 

[John Connor]

I'm just amazed at how many people out there have fucking cameras. If something goes down chances are someone has recorded it. LOL @ the Russian missile.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

NASA now is reported to say it weighed 7000 tons and hit the atmosphere at 10 miles/sec.

Energy released was that of about 20 Hiroshima bombs. Cool.

 

[coloumb]

I'm just amazed at how many people out there have fucking cameras. If something goes down chances are someone has recorded it. LOL @ the Russian missile.

That's what I was thinking as well. At first we saw videos of what happened after the meteor already burned up/crashed. Today we see videos of the entire event.

What I really find disconcerting is that this apparently was a surprise? No surprise that Russia wants to build a warning system - they seem to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with regards to space objects... [maybe that's why they drink Vodka quite often..."It's ok... you don't care so do I!"

 

[n7]

Crazy stuff.

Was watching some of the videos this morning before work, and some more now.

Must have been pretty scarey to have been there!

 

[gevorg]

 

[Jeff7]

That's what I was thinking as well. At first we saw videos of what happened after the meteor already burned up/crashed. Today we see videos of the entire event.

What I really find disconcerting is that this apparently was a surprise? No surprise that Russia wants to build a warning system - they seem to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with regards to space objects... [maybe that's why they drink Vodka quite often..."It's ok... you don't care so do I!"

Yup. We devote very few resources to finding dangerous objects. As you can see right here in this thread, there is even considerable opposition to it.

 

[angminas]

We are the aliens in the universe to another planet, how ridiculous of a notion is it to think we are the only life out there

Not as ridiculous as feeling certain that there is life elsewhere when it hasn't been anywhere close to proven.

 

[angminas]

I would think a missile which hit this head-on would be atomized before the fuze even had time to react to the impact and detonate the warhead. Anyone?

 

[Jeff7]

Not as ridiculous as feeling certain that there is life elsewhere when it hasn't been anywhere close to proven.

I think that, given the incredibly immense size of the Universe, it's near-insanity to think that Earth is the only place with life.

 

[Childs]

Not as ridiculous as feeling certain that there is life elsewhere when it hasn't been anywhere close to proven.

Well, that would be a reasonable position to take if you thought you knew everything there is to know in the universe.

 

[Jaskalas]

I would think a missile which hit this head-on would be atomized before the fuze even had time to react to the impact and detonate the warhead. Anyone?

:hmm: It's a damn good question.

 

[Gintaras]

http://youtu.be/BxroiTRg7Tg

 

[OutHouse]

NASA now is reported to say it weighed 7000 tons and hit the atmosphere at 10 miles/sec.

Energy released was that of about 20 Hiroshima bombs. Cool.

Yea thank goodness it exploded as high as it did not too much lower and it would be really nasty.

 

[rockyct]

That's what I was thinking as well. At first we saw videos of what happened after the meteor already burned up/crashed. Today we see videos of the entire event.

What I really find disconcerting is that this apparently was a surprise? No surprise that Russia wants to build a warning system - they seem to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with regards to space objects... [maybe that's why they drink Vodka quite often..."It's ok... you don't care so do I!"

The videos I've been seeing all day of the meteorite burning up were the ones that came out after a few hours. Are there more than the two?

 

[Gibsons]

I would think a missile which hit this head-on would be atomized before the fuze even had time to react to the impact and detonate the warhead. Anyone?

You wouldn't use an impact fuse.

 

[Gibsons]

I think most experts agree that nukes would be ineffective.

I think most experts would agree that there would be no chance of detecting and stopping something of this size, and no point in looking for them.

They are looking for big rocks, not these puny pebbles.

I think most experts would also agree that the best method we have to deflect them currently is by finding them decades or hundreds of years before they will hit Earth, and then simply orbiting them with something massive which can pull away ever so slowly, and thus use it's gravity to pull the asteroid into another path.

The experts opinions that I've read seem to think that using a nuke to deflect an asteroid is easily one of the most practical and effective things to do. And it would be a lot easier and cheaper than moving some inert mass and using that. The trick is finding it soon enough, so that a tiny deflection, like 1/1000 of a degree, results in a miss.

“Mitigation” refers to all means of defending Earth and its inhabitants from the effects of an impending impact by an NEO. Four main types of defense are discussed in this report. The choice of which one(s) to use depends primarily on the warning time available and on the mass and speed of the impactor. The types of mitigation are these:

Civil defense. This option may be the only one feasible for warning times shorter than perhaps a year or two, and depending on the state of readiness for applying an active defense, civil defense may be the only choice for even longer times.

“Slow-push” or “slow-pull” methods. For these options the orbit of the target object would be changed so that it avoided collision with Earth. The most effective way to change the orbit, given a constraint on the energy that would be available, is to change the velocity of the object, either in or opposite to the direction in which it is moving (direct deflection—that is, moving the object sideways—is much less efficient). These options take considerable time, on the order of decades, to be effective, and even then they would be useful only for objects whose diameters are no larger than 100 meters or so.

Kinetic impactors. In these mitigation scenarios, the target’s orbit would be changed by the sending of one or more spacecraft with very massive payload(s) to impact directly on the target at high speed in its direction, or opposite to its direction, of motion. The effectiveness of this option depends not only on the mass of the target but also on any net enhancement resulting from material being thrown out of the target, in the direction opposite to that of the payload, upon impact.

Nuclear explosions. For nontechnical reasons, this would likely be a last resort, but it is also the most powerful technique and could take several different forms, as discussed in the report. The nuclear option would be usable for objects up to a few kilometers in diameter.

 

[klinc]

How did the meteor get through earths shield? How did they find the password for it unless they haven't changed it since Spaceballs and the last the Mega Maid incident which stole almost all our oxygen

 

[dmcowen674]

The videos I've been seeing all day of the meteorite burning up were the ones that came out after a few hours. Are there more than the two?

There were two contrails, it split up.

 

[Jeff7]

Well, that would be a reasonable position to take if you thought you knew everything there is to know in the universe.

It would have going for it the high relative speeds, so it wouldn't be exposed to the superheated air for very long at all. It would also need to first heat and then strip away enough of the missile's exterior to expose and disable the guts.


Also, all I can't help but think about now is an episode of Stargate: SG1 where they visited a planet that experienced a periodic meteor shower, but they were getting closer and closer each year. Their "close calls" lacked sonic booms or destructive blast waves.
Oh well.