Massachusetts Hospital Association: Smokers Need Not Apply

[WelshBloke]

No, you can quit if you don't like who he votes for or what he has in his car. How is your freedom to quit any less a "penalty" to him than his freedom to fire you is a "penalty" to you?

Employment is a mutually agreed upon contract. Not slavery NOR daycare NOR a one sided contract. Both of you have the right to end that contract for whatever reason so long as it abides by the limits set forth in the contract.

The contract should be you provide a service for your employer and your employer compensates you for it. As long as you continue to provide the service its none of your employers business what you do at home.

 

[Amused]

The contract should be you provide a service for your employer and your employer compensates you for it. As long as you continue to provide the service its none of your employers business what you do at home.

Then shall the law prevent YOU from terminating the employment contract with your employer because you don't like something he does in his off hours?

 

[lothar]

If a person wants to LEGALLY smoke at his own house, on his own time, it's absolutely in no way, shape, of form, any business of his boss. Just the same as whether he is registered as a D, a R or an I. It has nothing to do with private property rights

If his employer is the one paying for his health insurance(or subsidizing the actual cost like most businesses do), it absolutely is his business.

If the person wants to smoke on his own terms at home, he's free to find another job.

 

[IBMer]

Then shall the law prevent YOU from terminating the employment contract with your employer because you don't like something he does in his off hours?

It can't work one way and not the other. Anyone has the choice to end their employment at any time, regardless of the damage it does to a company. Should we start putting up regulations on that too?

 

[WelshBloke]

Then shall the law prevent YOU from terminating the employment contract with your employer because you don't like something he does in his off hours?

Well if I've agreed to a set term of employment then fair enough, he should sue the shit out of me.

Do you think that all contracts should work this way? That one party can unilaterally decide the are not going to abide by it any more?

 

[Paul98]

Is it somehow your right to work there? If you don't like it find another job. If you don't want to get fired or want a job there stop smoking.

 

[Amused]

Well if I've agreed to a set term of employment then fair enough, he should sue the shit out of me.

Do you think that all contracts should work this way? That one party can unilaterally decide the are not going to abide by it any more?

I think that the contract should be binding both ways, and free for BOTH to agree to. Instead, it appears many here think the employer should be bound by law to restrictions while they are not bound by law to any restrictions.

 

[Amused]

It can't work one way and not the other. Anyone has the choice to end their employment at any time, regardless of the damage it does to a company. Should we start putting up regulations on that too?

That is my point. Maybe you should go back and re-read the thread?

My point: If an employee is allowed to quit at any time for any reason, then the employer should have the same freedom in firing.

 

[WelshBloke]

I think that the contract should be binding both ways, and free for BOTH to agree to. Instead, it appears many here think the employer should be bound by law to restrictions while they are not bound by law to any restrictions.

And if I'm doing my job, doing it well and not breeching any clauses in the contract why should the employer sack me on a whim.

Obviously if the employer has legit reasons (downsizing, job not needed any more) its a different issue.

 

[Amused]

And if I'm doing my job, doing it well and not breeching any clauses in the contract why should the employer sack me on a whim.

Obviously if the employer has legit reasons (downsizing, job not needed any more) its a different issue.

If you can quit on a whim, why can't he fire you on a whim?

Why do you deserve more rights than he has?

 

[WelshBloke]

If you can quit on a whim, why can't he fire you on a whim?

Why do you deserve more rights than he has?

I can stop paying my electricity company any time I like, I don't think they should be allowed to cut me off for no reason however.

 

[Amused]

I can stop paying my electricity company any time I like, I don't think they should be allowed to cut me off for no reason however.

Something tells me you signed a contract for service with them that details what they may cut you off for.

I know I did with my utilities.

 

[Brainonska511]

If you can quit on a whim, why can't he fire you on a whim?

Why do you deserve more rights than he has?

At a curiosity, do you think there is a level playing field in negotiation between an employee and an employer?

 

[Amused]

At a curiosity, do you think there is a level playing field in negotiation between an employee and an employer?

Of course. It is a transaction. One is looking to buy services, and the other looking to sell services.

Were it not, there wouldn't be a mutual agreement.

 

[WelshBloke]

Something tells me you signed a contract for service with them that details what they may cut you off for.

I know I did with my utilities.

Indeed, they cant just cut me off on a whim I have to breech my contract, why should employment be any different?

 

[Amused]

Indeed, they cant just cut me off on a whim I have to breech my contract, why should employment be any different?

Because unless your employer SIGNED a contract detailing why they may terminate you, they may do so when and for whatever reason they wish... just as you may quit when and for whatever reason you wish unless YOU signed a contrct limited the reasons for which you may quit.

 

[WelshBloke]

Because unless your employer SIGNED a contract detailing why they may terminate you, they may do so when and for whatever reason they wish... just as you may quit when and for whatever reason you wish unless YOU signed a contrct limited the reasons for which you may quit.

My employer cannot sack me when and for whatever reason they wish.

Well they can but I would make much money out of them if they did.

Again, they asked me to provide a service, and as long as that service is needed and I continue to full-fill it they don't just get to sack me when they want.

Most civilised countries work this way.

 

[Amused]

My employer cannot sack me when and for whatever reason they wish.

Well they can but I would make much money out of them if they did.

Again, they asked me to provide a service, and as long as that service is needed and I continue to full-fill it they don't just get to sack me when they want.

Most civilised countries work this way.

If you demand the right to quit for any reason then you demand unequal rights. Period.

 

[WelshBloke]

If you demand the right to quit for any reason then you demand unequal rights. Period.

So?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No, you can quit if you don't like who he votes for or what he has in his car. How is your freedom to quit any less a "penalty" to him than his freedom to fire you is a "penalty" to you?

Employment is a mutually agreed upon contract. Not slavery NOR daycare NOR a one sided contract. Both of you have the right to end that contract for whatever reason so long as it abides by the limits set forth in the contract.

What I asked is why the employer should be able to fire an employee for not buying a car with leather or for not slapping your kids if he orders you to. How about whoring out your wife?

The way you make it sound a guy working his ass off for 20 years can do those things or be "free" to face ruin.

 

[Amused]

So?

Why do you deserve more rights, at the expense of another man's rights?

 

[WelshBloke]

Why do you deserve more rights, at the expense of another man's rights?

Am I threatening my employer the loss of his livelihood because he does something I don't like?

 

[Amused]

What I asked is why the employer should be able to fire an employee for not buying a car with leather or for not slapping your kids if he orders you to. How about whoring out your wife?

The way you make it sound a guy working his ass off for 20 years can do those things or be "free" to face ruin.

You can use all the ridiculous examples you want, but honestly, how many businesses would be successful if they were so picky as in the absurd things you describe?

Going to ridiculous extremes may win the emotional debate, but not the logical one.

Why should you have the right to terminate the employment contract at any time and for any reason and your employer not have the SAME rights you have?

 

[Amused]

Am I threatening my employer the loss of his livelihood because he does something I don't like?

An employer without employees is out of business. So yes. You quitting is detrimental to him as well.

 

[WelshBloke]

An employer without employees is out of business. So yes. You quitting is detrimental to him as well.

Its at nowhere the same level. Unless he has only one employee and cant do the job himself.