Marijuana Poisoning Children in Record Numbers, Study Shows.

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zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
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i guess for some people, me included there "is" a physical withdrawal.. lasts about 3 days, makes me feel irritable, light stomach discomfort..

about as serious as caffeine withdrawal..

that's after months on end of daily, multiple daily use however.. same with caffeine, caffeine is more of a headachey withdrawal though, THC is more gastro for me...

also have experience with benzo and opiate withdrawal.. those are real withdrawals... enough to like get in the way of you functioning throughout the day.. pot.. nah.. unless your a super puss..
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
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i guess for some people, me included there "is" a physical withdrawal.. lasts about 3 days, makes me feel irritable, light stomach discomfort..

about as serious as caffeine withdrawal..

that's after months on end of daily, multiple daily use however.. same with caffeine, caffeine is more of a headachey withdrawal though, THC is more gastro for me...

also have experience with benzo and opiate withdrawal.. those are real withdrawals... enough to like get in the way of you functioning throughout the day.. pot.. nah.. unless your a super puss..

That's the thing, for actual drug addicts, they think the 'withdrawals' experienced from pot are trivial and completely non-serious. The fact remains, whatever fervor someone has for making pot out to be harmful, I can come in twice as strong about soda.

You have two camps

1) SEE! I TOLD YOU! POT HAS WITHDRAWALS IT IS NOT HARMLESS! #MOUNTAIN!

2) Even if there are withdrawals, they aren't in anyway significant to someone's overall health and most people barely experience them. #Molehill.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
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I've been around pot culture my entire life and in my experience, people have a harder time kicking coffee.

The point is that you have to grasp for straws to find people that really experience any crippling withdrawals from heavy use of pot, at least withdrawals that matter.

I would agree that it is actually rare for a pot user to go through withdrawals, much moreso than caffeine. For one, pot users on average use pot much less than caffeine drinkers who drink caffeine, simply because you're typically not a very functional person of you're constantly baked all the time. In contrast, taking high doses of caffeine usually makes people more functional, hence the average daily intake of caffeine is actually 3 cups a day. And you have to realize about half of them drinks even more than that. Thus, proportionally speaking, there are far fewer pot smokers actually even smoke enough to generate withdrawals.


· 10.6 million users smoke marijuana about six times a year

· 4 million users smoke marijuana once or twice a month (about 18 times a year)

· 2.3 million users smoke marijuana about once a week (about 52 times a year)

· 3.4 million users smoke marijuana about twice a week (about 104 times a year)

· 5.4 million users smoke marijuana almost daily (about 300 times a year

http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k8NSDUH/tabs/Sect7peTabs1to59.htm#Tab7.1A

So here you could see that only about a fifth of pot smokers are chronic users. Thus, even if you assume that 40% figure generated by the two studies I linked previously, less than one out of twelve pot users you know even has the potential of experiencing withdrawal. And out of the 40% in the study, only a fraction of that would actually have severe withdrawals. And even then, you'd have to wonder what percent of those who actually did experience withdrawals would tell you about it, especially if you're someone as arrogant and moronic as xj0hnx who would likely laugh at you in the face. So you could see how only a TINY percentage of pot smokers you know "from your experiences" would even experience notable withdrawals.

Again for the 5th time in this thread, there's a reason why no remotely respectable health professional would rely on anecdotes.

3 days of wishing you had some weed to smoke, and losing sleep about it, isn't anything like nicotine, caffiene, etc. which have almost guaranteed withdrawals that are significantly rougher.
Yes, for you and possibly some of your buddies. But tell that to the people in the pages upon pages of people talking about their vomiting, panic attacks, anxiety that is all that it is. This is seriously getting old. Again and again, you guys just keep repeating that the withdrawals are entirely limited to nothing but light psychological cravings as if you said it enough times, it'd make it true.

So can weed cause withdrawals if you use it everyday, all day? Sure it's a possibility, but it's still nothing like withdrawal from mountain dew if you use it everyday, all day. Let's be real about how serious the withdrawals are, if they are even there.
I don't know what else to say if I already presented to you multiple studies with over thousands of subjects that show significant withdrawals, as well as pages upon pages of people who talk about it.

And yet your response to that is let's get real here.

Jesus F. Christ, has everyone here devolved back into the dark ages where beliefs are all based on anecdotes, widely perpetuated myths, and he said she said?
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
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Yes, for you and possibly some of your buddies. But tell that to the people in the pages upon pages of people talking about their vomiting, panic attacks, anxiety that is all that it is. This is seriously getting old. Again and again, you guys just keep repeating that the withdrawals are entirely limited to nothing but light psychological cravings as if you said it enough times, it'd make it true.

It's 100% true, You must be one of those fools that think that if someone posted it on the internet it must be true, lol. And stop exaggerating, there are not pages and pages of people claiming they experienced symptoms that rival heroin withdrawal, there's one, maybe two and they were on other drugs as well, and one was pregnant. Still get a good laugh at "marijuana withdrawal", just saying it makes me giggle.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
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It's 100% true, You must be one of those fools that think that if someone posted it on the internet it must be true, lol. And stop exaggerating, there are not pages and pages of people claiming they experienced symptoms that rival heroin withdrawal, there's one, maybe two and they were on other drugs as well, and one was pregnant. Still get a good laugh at "marijuana withdrawal", just saying it makes me giggle.

Ah it has been seriously fascinating observing cognitive biases and denial as you degrade further and further into the pits of irrationality as you continue grasping at straws. First from adamantly ignoring the pages upon pages of reports, then to saying it's just that one site, no one else outside of that one site has ever had withdrawals! Then you go on to claim, oh you must believe everything on the internet! Not to mention your argument has been riddled with fallacies and anecdotes, which even you yourself, earlier in the thread criticized someone else for it, but are now heralding your own.

Since you've gone full retard, I'm afraid this'll have to do for this fascinating observation of your cognitive distortions.


In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
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The article seems to be fake, it is certainly not harmful in one time use or overdose, but if you smoke it, it can cause irreversible damage when you smoke several joints daily for many years. For example you start with it at 15, but at 25 you will be very dumb person most of the time.
I don't know about medical uses however, but seems that it won't be any worse.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
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The article seems to be fake, it is certainly not harmful in one time use or overdose, but if you smoke it, it can cause irreversible damage when you smoke several joints daily for many years. For example you start with it at 15, but at 25 you will be very dumb person most of the time.
I don't know about medical uses however, but seems that it won't be any worse.

Shhhhh you're not supposed to say anything negative about pot.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0503c.shtml
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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Shhhhh you're not supposed to say anything negative about pot.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0503c.shtml

Sooo Lame. What the article fails to point out is that correlation is not causation, no matter how badly you want it to be.

People with depressive personalities will attempt to self medicate, as will schizophrenics. You confuse cause & effect, quite deliberately.

Smoking pot makes you stupid? Not really-

http://coed.com/2009/02/06/the-10-most-successful-potheads-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/

Add George Carlin to the list, along with a lot of other very successful people.

None of that matters in the world of anti-cannabis ravers- what matters is pseudo scientific ontology.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
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AstroIdea, one thing to point out is that many people turn to marijuana to self medicate. It's easily obtained, you don't need a prescription or ID (yay black market), and for most people it really helps.

I would be curious to find out how many people in the group experiencing relevant withdrawals were anxious, depressed, etc. to begin with. Of course if they stop medicating, they're going to be reintroduced to those symptoms, and could possibly be mistaken for withdrawal symptoms.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Sooo Lame. What the article fails to point out is that correlation is not causation, no matter how badly you want it to be.

People with depressive personalities will attempt to self medicate, as will schizophrenics. You confuse cause & effect, quite deliberately.

Smoking pot makes you stupid? Not really-

http://coed.com/2009/02/06/the-10-most-successful-potheads-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/

Add George Carlin to the list, along with a lot of other very successful people.

None of that matters in the world of anti-cannabis ravers- what matters is pseudo scientific ontology.

Shhhh.

It is still not clear, however, whether marijuana triggers the onset of illness in individuals predisposed to such conditions or whether it actually causes the illnesses.

Wait, what!?!
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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Again I have no doubt people that have a predisposition to addiction report having weed withdrawals.

What's the psychological profile of the control groups? Any previous history of addiction?

Again it's not the reports of withdrawals that's suspect it's the question of the trigger being biological or psychological.

habit vs chemical addiction.

There simply is no evidence of chemical addiction. Plenty of evidence like anything it can be habit forming.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Again I have no doubt people that have a predisposition to addiction report having weed withdrawals.

What's the psychological profile of the control groups? Any previous history of addiction?

Again it's not the reports of withdrawals that's suspect it's the question of the trigger being biological or psychological.

habit vs chemical addiction.

There simply is no evidence of chemical addiction. Plenty of evidence like anything it can be habit forming.

This. There is just no known chemical reason for withdrawal from weed as there is from many other drugs.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
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This. There is just no known chemical reason for withdrawal from weed as there is from many other drugs.

i have an unrelated question, since i know you like the other stuff i like too...

have you noticed a "cross" addiction? from the two?

i have.. it's crazy and i cant explain it, or find anything to scientifically explain it anywhere... i've pretty much stopped the O's completely at this point in my life.. (i might weekend warrior it, every now and then with my own prescription) however.. mj use, is about daily now... and i've noticed now my mj withdrawal, feels like super light O withdrawal... and it's for about 3 days if i stop completely (do this for tolerance every now and then)

just my 2 cents..
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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The effects of MJ can be accumulative. Some of the chemicals build up in your body. Too much of anything can be bad whether it is Alcohol or cigarettes or sniffing paint.
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,992
3,348
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The effects of MJ can be accumulative. Some of the chemicals build up in your body. Too much of anything can be bad whether it is Alcohol or cigarettes or sniffing paint.

Sniffing paint is actually good for you, it kills off the weak brain cells so the stronger ones have more room to grow.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
The effects of MJ can be accumulative. Some of the chemicals build up in your body. Too much of anything can be bad whether it is Alcohol or cigarettes or sniffing paint.

You're almost on to something- the fact that the effects of authoritarian propaganda can build up in your mind, rendering your less resistant to & even eagerly accepting of more of the same.

It's a disease exhibiting many of the same characteristics as alcoholism, Denial chief among them. Those most profoundly affected are thus those least able to recognize it & do something about it.

Might want to take a long hard look at what you believe in so dogmatically, figure out that what you're doing is attempting to justify your beliefs that were originally formed independent of any reason whatsoever.

Mighty oaks from tiny acorns grow, and those poisonous acorns were planted in the garden of your mind long ago.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
i have an unrelated question, since i know you like the other stuff i like too...

have you noticed a "cross" addiction? from the two?

i have.. it's crazy and i cant explain it, or find anything to scientifically explain it anywhere... i've pretty much stopped the O's completely at this point in my life.. (i might weekend warrior it, every now and then with my own prescription) however.. mj use, is about daily now... and i've noticed now my mj withdrawal, feels like super light O withdrawal... and it's for about 3 days if i stop completely (do this for tolerance every now and then)

just my 2 cents..

I don't smoke anymore, haven't in about 15 years, but i did notice something similar that I'll pm you about.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Sooo Lame. What the article fails to point out is that correlation is not causation, no matter how badly you want it to be.

People with depressive personalities will attempt to self medicate, as will schizophrenics. You confuse cause & effect, quite deliberately.

Smoking pot makes you stupid? Not really-

http://coed.com/2009/02/06/the-10-most-successful-potheads-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/

Add George Carlin to the list, along with a lot of other very successful people.

None of that matters in the world of anti-cannabis ravers- what matters is pseudo scientific ontology.
The article didn't fail to point it out. But when four times as many people had depression after smoking pot than before they smoked pot, I would think twice before being so firm that pot is harmless.

Also pointing out a list of smart people who smokes pot as proof that pot doesn't make you dumb is shortsighted and naive. Are these smart people potheads that smoke two joints before they smoke two joints, and then they smoke two more? Probably not.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
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Again I have no doubt people that have a predisposition to addiction report having weed withdrawals.

What's the psychological profile of the control groups? Any previous history of addiction?

Again it's not the reports of withdrawals that's suspect it's the question of the trigger being biological or psychological.

habit vs chemical addiction.

There simply is no evidence of chemical addiction. Plenty of evidence like anything it can be habit forming.

I addressed concerns about chemical addiction earlier in the thread. Probably around page 5.

I don't think the evidence is solid on chemical dependency, but there is some there.

Furthermore, it seems that much of the belief about the lack of chemical dependency or addiction from pot perpetuated from studies several decades ago, before weed has been bred and rebred into the animal it is today. Furthermore, smoking technologies have risen too.

Believe me, I used to be in the same camp thinking pot was perfectly harmless gift of the gods, and boy did I smoke. I live in Southern California, and we used to rate our pot from a 1 to 5 scale. 3 being chronic. Remember how Dr. Dre used to rave about it in his rap? Well it's about the lowest grade you can get your hands on here. 4 is medical, and 5 being og/master kush, which looks like it came from Krispy Kreme because it was so sticky and glazed with trichomes.

I was also close to a dealer, and he had one of those RooR bongs. There's a whole science out there into maximizing your high from the pipe. The RooR was the paramount of it. First, it had a specially designed diffuser, little holes where the tube meets the water on the bong, this makes the smoke extra dense. Secondly, it was designed to hold ice - colder means more dense, think cold air intake. Lastly, the beaker is shaped to further increase the density of the smoke, and it's a fairly large volume. This is important for one main reason, and it'll become apparent when I explain how you'd smoke the thing.

First it has an extra fat bowl, you can smoke 0.3g in a single hit with that. You light it up good and you slowly milk it until the smoke reaches the top. Then right when it reaches the top and the huge beaker has now become entirely opaque, you cover the bong with your hand and exhale to prepare for the most intense huff you can muster.

Then in one swift huff, you empty that dense smoke from 0.3g of super sticky high quality bud in the span of a second. Normally even the most veteran smokers can't inhale that without their cough reflex being unleashed violently. But in this case, you suck it in so fast, the cough reflex doesn't stand a chance. Then you hold it in for as long as you could, and when you exhale, that dense white cloud is now entirely clear as it has all been absorbed into your lungs.

This coats your lungs with a thick layer of the THC tar. You could feel it as if you just entered in the sauna and you feel like you're drowning in the hot humid air. Since your lungs absorbs THC through the process of diffusion, the incredibly dense smoke is what brings you to the upper limit of THC concentration in your bloodstream through insufflation. When I smoked, I wasn't just baked, I was on an intense psychedelic trip to another dimension.

If you've ever seen me when I was in that state, you would've been asking WTF was I on, because it would've not been like anything you've seen. I would be moving catatonically, rhythmically into different structures and patterns. I'd be rolling around the walls as I became this perpetually spinning energy traversing alien landscapes. Needless to say, I alienated a lot of my friends from my days of smoking pot.

After a month of hanging out with my pot dealer friend, my tolerance has risen so much that the intense psychedelic trip dwindled to a mild high that lasts for half an hour. Smoking became pointless and I stopped. I went through intense vomiting and anxiety that lasted for about five days.

It felt like I was running a marathon and I was at the upper limit of what my heart can handle. Only except I couldn't stop to rest. Imagine that constantly for several days. That's what I went through. My only recourse was to actually go out and run. When I tired myself out, I can actually find relief for a while, until it came back shortly after and I had to run more.

All in all, I would actually say the withdrawals were ok. You deal with it for a few days and it's over. Big whoop. If it was just the withdrawals, I'd say it was worth it given how awesome the journeys it's taken me has been.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,803
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Intense vomiting and anxiety for 5 days? should've gone to the doctor, there's something wrong with you.

edit: there's no "THC tar". If you've ever seen a vaporizer in action, you know this. Just sayin'
 
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yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
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Why go to the doctor? So she could give me more drugs while I'm trying to get off of drugs? No thanks, I can handle it.

Right. It clearly wasn't just THC in that tar, since I didn't exactly smoke from a vaporizer.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,803
20,407
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Why go to the doctor? So she could give me more drugs while I'm trying to get off of drugs? No thanks, I can handle it.

Right. It clearly wasn't just THC in that tar, since I didn't exactly smoke from a vaporizer.

The symptoms you're describing are a-typical for people quitting weed. You consult a physician because of the duration of vomiting. You can always say no to more drugs. Just say no....works on doctors too :p
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
i think alot of these studies lack one thing as well, in fact, i know they do.

consistent, quality, cannibus... i bet studies would look completely different (as if you cant studies that vary widely already, and the reason they do) if you took a quality, organically grown, classic, strain of cannibus.