Marijuana: Harmless or not?

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Spendthrift
[sarcasm]
youre right, its complete BS that my friends and family have started with marijuana and then gone on to do harder drugs. im just making it up cause im a sellout to the DARE bandwagon. we all know its impossible for the people that support legalization of marijuana to be wrong, so obviously im a liar.
[/sarcasm]

and yes i can and do blame marijuana for my friends and family doing harder drugs. i also blame alcohol and ive already admitted thats its as much a "gateway drug" as marijuana. its a progression. many people are looking for that better high. they may start with alcohol or pills. then they look for something better. and there marijuana is. and it just continues on and on.

i havent claimed that marijuana is horrible for your health. i dont believe enough studies have been done on its effects. however, i cant imagine that inhaling anything is good for your health. and i could be wrong but hasnt marijuana been linked to impotence and lower sperm counts? not horrible side effects, but unhealthy nonetheless.

Do you honestly believe that without weed, the problems with other drugs wouldn't have been there? Serious drug use is a symptom of some other problem

i dont know, but i know with my friends and family i wont have the chance to find out.

Alcohol is MUCH more likely to cause addiction or lead to supposed "harder" drugs.

got studies to back it up? (not saying youre necessarily wrong, just want to see some hard evidence)

I am not going to search google for a hour to find case studies for you. If we do a practical study based on experience(since you are a non-abuser) how many people have you ever seen walking around that are potholics? They have to smoke joint after joint and then they turn violent, incoherent, slur their speech, have trouble walking,etc. Now do the same for alcohol. Their is a reason we have a term for abusers of alcohol.

I know that will not be enough for you so I will elaborate more. I know people who have had a PROBLEM with marijuana much like any other drug. Anything that makes your life unmanagable is a PROBLEM. That can include gambling, sex, cars, the internet, etc. Now that we have defined problem we can look at the experience I have. I know over 60 addicts right now that I am friends with. I see them everyday. Every single one of them will tell you what drugs they started out on. Out of all those people IIRC there were maybe 5 that did marijuana first. It was mainly alcohol or getting into their parent's medicine cabinent or an abuse of a prescription they were given. Marijuana was actually a compliment to other drugs. Most people believe that you "move on" and "graduate" from marijuana. Hardly. In all of these cases they continued to use marijuana as a compliment to other drugs. Never did they one day stop getting high off of marijuana. They continued to use it in concert with other drugs. The fact was they didn't start out using marijuana. That has been a rare experience among addicts I know. The problem isn't "marijuana" anyway. It is the deciscions they made while abusing drugs.

I hate to say it but I am not for the legalization of drugs. Legalize marijuana I don't care about it. But if you think for one minute that legalizing heroin,crack, or meth will in anyway reduce or stabalize drugs use then I want you to off yourself right now. Take out a gun and blow your head off because you are a moron. Those drugs are very psychologically and physically addictive. Legalization of hard drugs would destroy our society. Alcohol is very evil too.

The argument that the prohibition didn't work is a good one. Too bad alcohol has been around a long time. It has been highly regulated and instilled as part of our culture. If would be impossible to legalize crack or other hard drugs to the state at which alcohol is today. Alcohol is evil. It is not as evil as some things though. Tell me someone who smokes a couple of rocks socially or shoots up with their dinner. You can't compare Drug A to Drug B and expect it to equal Drug C or Drug J. That kind of logic is dangerous.

 

[Spendthrift]

monotony - my response wasnt directed at you as much as it was directed and millenium.

people that want to get high, are going to get high

admittedly im not a mind reader, however i dont believe that most of the hardcore users i know decided they wanted to get high no matter what. i think it was much more gradual. something more along the lines of being with a group and being offered a toke for the the first time. the high is fun and seems harmless. after a while they begin to look for something that will take them a little higher. and on the progression goes.

again, not that i know what these people thought before they got into drugs, but it is a concievable scenario. and yes they are probably missing something else in their life and have a host of other problems, but few people jump to the conclusion that "crack can make all my problems go away." for some reason you dont hear about too many recovered users saying they jumped straight into crack, heroin, or meth.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: JingP
obviously not harmless or it wouldn't be prohibited.

you have way too much faith in our government. Weed is illegal because a lot of corporations stand to loose a lot of money if it becomes legal so they pay legislators money to keep it illegal

Go back to smoking pot and believing those theorys my boy.

 

[CrazyRyan]

Take it from a drunken Irishman Alchohol is much worse then pot

 

[Mill]

admittedly im not a mind reader, however i dont believe that most of the hardcore users i know decided they wanted to get high no matter what. i think it was much more gradual. something more along the lines of being with a group and being offered a toke for the the first time. the high is fun and seems harmless. after a while they begin to look for something that will take them a little higher. and on the progression goes.

again, not that i know what these people thought before they got into drugs, but it is a concievable scenario. and yes they are probably missing something else in their life and have a host of other problems, but few people jump to the conclusion that "crack can make all my problems go away." for some reason you dont hear about too many recovered users saying they jumped straight into crack, heroin, or meth.

No no no no no no no no. You are just repeating propaganda again! There are people that jump straight into hard drugs. I did. I know lots of other addicts that did. Everything thinks that all this comes on gradual. It doesn't come on gradual. You don't gradually become addicted to drugs. If you are an addict you will get high no matter what the cost. Sometimes even hitting a bottom doesn't help.

I sympathize that you have addicts as friends or family members, but I don't think spreading propaganda is going to help them, you, non-abusers or anyone else who has a drug problem.

 

[Spendthrift]

apoppin - well ive never actually been through a DARE program (honestly, i managed to avoid it by switching schools at convenient times) so what im saying wasnt pounded into me by the police/educational system.

the whole kiddie porn thing was an analogy about underground crime rings because i disagreed with amused one's belief that legalization of drugs would be a good thing because it would get rid of said underground crime ring. not really relevant to this discussion. (and yes it is an imperfect analogy, but not withought some merit; but thats a seperate matter )


as to some of the other posts - yes my friends and family do(or should) take responsibility for their actions.

i dont have a good answer about whether MJ should be legalized or not, but i do believe that its not harmless.

 

[Spendthrift]

millenium - if i was wrong about people jumping straight into hard drugs then so be it. i appologize.

i was basing my statement on the people that i know, and none of them have jumped straight into hard drugs.

 

[Rainsford]

Marijuana, like most things in life, is harmless if used in moderation. That is the key here. All the potheads I've met, the ones with obvious problems, smoke it all the time. Not every once in a while, not even a lot, they smoke it all the time! All "substances" are bad for you, and I would submit that certain legal ones, like alcohol, are worse for you than marijuana. Ever seen someone die from drinking too much? Ever see someone die from smoking too much marijuana? Alcohol is proven to destroy your liver functions over the long term, but what has been proven about marijuana? Alcohol can encourage violence, anger and a host of other problems. I've seen drunks slug it out, but never people that are high.

Yet in spite of all this, a lot of people are deathly afraid of marijuana. I blame our government that for years said that marijuana makes you go crazy and jump out of windows. They spend billions of our dollars locking up marijuana users and dealers, money that could be spend on education, or the poor, or even drug abuse programs. There is some sort of stigma in our society against marijuana. I've talked with my parents about it, and they just say how bad it is, but I've yet to hear any facts proving it's worse than alcohol. The whole idea of a gateway drug is stupid when you consider the following. Some people need something in their lives other than reality. So they start "small" with something like marijuana, then they move on to harder drugs. If marijuana wasn't there, they would still probably do drugs, it's who they are, it has nothing to do with marijuana. If you're not going to do coke to begin with, I have a very hard time believing that marijuana is going to "make" you do coke.

Just so you all know, I don't smoke marijuana. But that doesn't mean I can't see all the superstition and fear surrounding it. But the bottom line is, if used with caution, I don't believe that marijuana is any more harmful that alcohol. But whatever I say, there will still be a societal belief that frat guys binge drinking are just "kids being kids" and marijuana smokers are evil stoners who are "bad news". So try to think outside your narrow mindset, and really think about it instead of letting your emotions get the better of you. Or better yet, get to know some people that have done marijuana, you might be surprised at how "normal" they are.

</speech>

 

[luv2chill]

i dont have a good answer about whether MJ should be legalized or not, but i do believe that its not harmless.

And I think you'd find scarcely few intelligent people who would disagree with that statement.

Here's the thing though... precious few things in this life are harmless. Hell, life itself is full of harm. You could be walking down the street one day and get mowed down by a crazy soccer mom in her SUV. There's something to be said for living life to the fullest... but that doesn't mean live it to excess. I have found (as have many who have come before me) that moderation is the key to everything. I believe Aristotle called it the "Golden Mean".

I am living proof that cannabis can be part of a "successful" life. No I don't smoke all the time. There's a time and a place for everything. So many things to be enjoyed--so little time. MJ is just one of them.

You'll find that when just about anything is taken to excess, that's when the harm outweighs the good. The key to an enjoyable life is finding a balance.

l2c

Edit: Well said, Rainsford...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Spendthrift
apoppin - well ive never actually been through a DARE program (honestly, i managed to avoid it by switching schools at convenient times) so what im saying wasnt pounded into me by the police/educational system.

the whole kiddie porn thing was an analogy about underground crime rings because i disagreed with amused one's belief that legalization of drugs would be a good thing because it would get rid of said underground crime ring. not really relevant to this discussion. (and yes it is an imperfect analogy, but not withought some merit; but thats a seperate matter )


as to some of the other posts - yes my friends and family do(or should) take responsibility for their actions.

i dont have a good answer about whether MJ should be legalized or not, but i do believe that its not harmless.

Are we done with the kiddie porn analogy? (I won't bring it up again unless you do.)

And I am not for legalizing marijuana . . . rather decriminalizing it. And I do not believe it is "harmless".

BTW, I do know some older guys that never tried pot and went straight to cocaine. If anything, Alcohol was the "gateway" drug for them.

 

[Spendthrift]

appopin - how are legalize and decriminalize different?

from dictionary.com

decriminalize

v : make legal; "Marijuana should be legalized" [syn: legalize, legitimize, legitimate, legitimatize] [ant: outlaw, outlaw]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

 

[KennyTheGreat]

ses is somewhat better because it is grown without any chemicals


there are many types of hydro, which is grown with chemicals

unless u get G13 AKA Northern Lights which is grown by the government, that stuff is somewhat better and healthier.

 

[luv2chill]

Originally posted by: Spendthrift
appopin - how are legalize and decriminalize different?

from dictionary.com

decriminalize

v : make legal; "Marijuana should be legalized" [syn: legalize, legitimize, legitimate, legitimatize] [ant: outlaw, outlaw]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

It's a subtle distinction... decriminalization is basically what's happening in countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland, England, and Canada. Basically it remains technically "illegal" but minor "infractions" and even most major ones are not prosecuted. It's sort of a lame distinction IMHO, but legalization implies endorsement. Like "if the government says it's legal, it must be saying that it's recommended" (as an extreme example). By decriminalizing instead of legalizing, the government basically covers its ass... it's frowned-upon but you're not going to get in trouble if you do it.

l2c

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Spendthrift
appopin - how are legalize and decriminalize different?

from dictionary.com

decriminalize

v : make legal; "Marijuana should be legalized" [syn: legalize, legitimize, legitimate, legitimatize] [ant: outlaw, outlaw]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

Legalize is as it sounds . . . like tobacco or alcohol - legal to buy in a store (with perhaps some age restrictions). I am not for this as perhaps it is sending the wrong message to children.

Decriminalize is also as it sounds - no longer making it a "criminal offense" to use it for personal use. What this means is that people cannot go to jail for choosing to use pot.

Both terms are very different from a "legal" standpoint.

 

[kamiam]

for those who believe MJ is dangerous and harmful...A GOVT study

and before you know-it-alls try to pick it apart because of the link addy,try reading who wrote it before you make a fool of yourselves...

and for those of you who would like to read how big business and govt officials conspired together to demonize MJ for profit

 

[kamiam]

and if you didn't want to believe that govt study,here's another from the Swiss

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Whether other things are legal or not or more harmful or not, pot is still harmful, and still illegal.

nik

 

[kamiam]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Whether other things are legal or not or more harmful or not, pot is still harmful, and still illegal.

nik

nik , you have obviously not read my links
an excerpt from 1 of my links...

Since the dawn of civilization, people have cultivated the plant known scientifically as cannabis and agriculturally as hemp for its fiber, seed, and pharmaceutical properties. Throughout the world, the records of archaeology and history reveal that humanity universally recognized the benefits of this unique plant. Such recognition ended abruptly in 1930, when the newly created Federal Bureau of Narcotics began to educate the American public about marihuana, as hemp had been known colloquially in the Sonoran region of Mexico.[1] Between 1930 and 1934, the Bureau compiled a body of misinformation which suggested that the use of marihuana was directly linked to crime, induced violent behavior, and caused insanity. Then, suddenly, in 1935, the Bureau flooded the nation with educational propaganda against marihuana use. During this act of demonization, the Bureau continuously cited its own accumulated body of misinformation as a precedent for legislation on the federal level. Through this studied deception, the Bureau effectively lobbied for the passage of the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, which considerably restricted the usage, distribution, and production of marihuana. Significantly, restrictions on marihuana automatically implied restrictions on the cultivation of hemp

quit believing everything the govt tells you nik

 

[AUMM]

Marijuana, like most things in life, is harmless if used in moderation.

i agree, i know people who smoke it occasionally and you would never know, but then there is my roomate from last year who began smoking a looooooooooooooottttttttttttttttttt and i could easily see him going downhill, he just started smoking like 3-4 times a day, dropped out of water polo, started screwin up in school, eventually he just became super lazy and did nothing all day.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: kamiam

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt Whether other things are legal or not or more harmful or not, pot is still harmful, and still illegal. nik

nik , you have obviously not read my links

Haha - I don't need your links. I've got an uncle who leads the biggest "cannabis" organization in the Portland Metro Area. And it's still all bull. Sh!t is easy to fake. A load of people's names, but that easily could have been written up by some pothead. Throw in a few real doctors and you've got yourself a spoof that wasted potheads just might fall for. But, if it's any consolation, I would read your links if it were about LOTR.

nik

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: kamiam
and for those of you who would like to read how big business and govt officials conspired together to demonize MJ for profit

lol - the guy's so wasted that he can't even spell his own drug.

nik (just thought he would point that out )

 

[kamiam]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt

Originally posted by: kamiam
and for those of you who would like to read how big business and govt officials conspired together to demonize MJ for profit

lol - the guy's so wasted that he can't even spell his own drug.

nik (just thought he would point that out )

and your smarter than someone writing a Masters thesis...yeah, that's it

btw, there are 2 diff spellings...do a search of marihuana on google doofus:disgust:

 

[shurato]

Originally posted by: KennyTheGreat
ses is somewhat better because it is grown without any chemicals


there are many types of hydro, which is grown with chemicals

unless u get G13 AKA Northern Lights which is grown by the government, that stuff is somewhat better and healthier.

G13 is not Northern Lights.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Sure, it happens to everybody. It's just funny to see a typo like that on such a monumental work like a Master's Thesis. You'd think he would have gone back to actually make sure he didn't come across as an idiot even before reading the thing. Haha - stoners... gotta love'em

nik

 

[kamiam]

for your edification, nik

Jack Herer, The Emperor Wears No Clothes (Van Nuys, California: HEMP Publishing, 1991) p. 25. Herer also explains that ?marihuana? is the Americanized spelling. The correct spelling is ?marijuana.? To avoid confusion, the spelling which will be used throughout this paper, will be the Americanized version, ?marihuana.? The use of ?h? appears in the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 and the records of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. Also see the Oxford English Dictionary listing for ?marijuana, marihuana.?

from my link
me thinks nik's oxygen level needs to be turned up