Many Missouri HS students walk out to protest transgender using wrong bathroom

[fskimospy]

The bigot card is really old. No one is protesting her being at the school. No one is dragging her behind their truck. They just don't think someone that is technically a boy in a dress and wig should be changing in a open room with a bunch of teenage girls.

I think it would be quite a bit different if she was taking hormones, grown out her hair, etc. But even then not many dads are going to want someone with a dick changing in front of their daughters and I doubt many girls want it either. Even if they were fine with her seeing them naked, the dad's aren't going to want their daughters seeing a dick every day.

No, the 'bigot card' is pretty much spot on. Just so you know, in order to be bigoted against someone that doesn't mean you have to be attempting to expel them or murder them.

Also, as previously mentioned this is an interesting intersection between anti-trans bigotry and American puritanism.

Further, if all it takes to get in the girls' locker room is a dress and wig, there will be other guys doing just for the view. As an example, a company my wife used to work for allowed shorts, because some guys complained that women could wear dresses and they couldn't wear shorts. Their boss said "well, you can wear a dress too." So a large group of them did for months until they changed the dress code. It isn't that hard to wear a dress for a decent payoff.

This is silly and you know it.

The idea that men will claim to be transexual in order to get into women's locker rooms is frequently trotted out as a problem despite there being exactly zero evidence this actually takes place. (not to mention policies that allow trans people to use their preferred facilities don't work that way anyway)

Finally, if you are truly above body shame, post naked, timestamped pictures with identification of yourself and girlfriend/wife/sister. I'll be waiting over at /B/. If you are uncomfortable doing that, why should a bunch of high schoolers basically have to do the same thing every day in front of someone that makes them uncomfortable?

Because I wouldn't violate my girlfriend's privacy and post pictures to the internet that could negatively impact her life I have to accept that body shaming is ok? lolwut. Body shaming is stupid, and no thanks, I won't be posting those pictures. The comparison between that and sharing a locker room is flat out stupid.

I am not sure what the true final solution will be for these matters, but I think offering gender neutral facilities is an effective solution for the time being. Maybe someday we will all be beyond modesty, and we can have 6 year-old girls showering with unrelated 60 year-old men, but in the mean time I think we need to come up with a practical solution that is as fair as possible to everyone involved. It sounds like this school has tried to be fair by offering a gender neutral facility.

Edit: BTW: I fully support transgender, I have zero issue with them, and I hope making the change either emotionally and/or physically will bring peace to them. But I also don't think modesty and prudeness are evil ideals and respect people who value those ideals.

I'm not against gender neutral facilities in principle either, but I can see why a trans person wouldn't want to use them. (they would basically be the trans person facilities.) I get that our prudishness (which is a bad thing, IMO) won't go away overnight, but I see little reason to cater to it.

 

[HomerJS]

No, the 'bigot card' is pretty much spot on. Just so you know, in order to be bigoted against someone that doesn't mean you have to be attempting to expel them or murder them.

Also, as previously mentioned this is an interesting intersection between anti-trans bigotry and American puritanism.



This is silly and you know it.

The idea that men will claim to be transexual in order to get into women's locker rooms is frequently trotted out as a problem despite there being exactly zero evidence this actually takes place. (not to mention policies that allow trans people to use their preferred facilities don't work that way anyway)



Because I wouldn't violate my girlfriend's privacy and post pictures to the internet that could negatively impact her life I have to accept that body shaming is ok? lolwut. Body shaming is stupid, and no thanks, I won't be posting those pictures. The comparison between that and sharing a locker room is flat out stupid.



I'm not against gender neutral facilities in principle either, but I can see why a trans person wouldn't want to use them. (they would basically be the trans person facilities.) I get that our prudishness (which is a bad thing, IMO) won't go away overnight, but I see little reason to cater to it.

It would become the trans/male bathroom. Don't think many guys will object peeing next to guy with wig.

 

[DCal430]

It would become the trans/male bathroom. Don't think many guys will object peeing next to guy with wig.

WTF, they will object. Why do you pretend that trans men (FtM) don't exist. That seems to be common among the bigots like you.

 

[HomerJS]

WTF, they will object. Why do you pretend that trans men (FtM) don't exist. That seems to be common among the bigots like you.

Not at all, but FtM trans can't use urinal so they goto stall. Door closed so prolly not much male objection

As many times I've been to crowded bar where women go into men's bathroom. Don't ever recall an objection.

 

[piasabird]

It is illegal for a male to expose himself to women.

 

[Jaskalas]

The only way to address Trans issues is to eliminate gender segregation. Unisex bathrooms, locker rooms, etc.

 

[werepossum]

Serious question: if you guys are not gay, why do all of you have boners in the shower?

My whole school career I saw exactly one boner in the shower. We had one guy who continually walked around waving it at everybody. (I used to think he was really, really hung until I realized that he was simply really, really stupid and therefore four years older than everyone else.) Other than that it simply doesn't happen in my experience. Same with being with friends except when it's mixed, but then, well, that's usually the point.

The bigot card is really old. No one is protesting her being at the school. No one is dragging her behind their truck. They just don't think someone that is technically a boy in a dress and wig should be changing in a open room with a bunch of teenage girls.

I think it would be quite a bit different if she was taking hormones, grown out her hair, etc. But even then not many dads are going to want someone with a dick changing in front of their daughters and I doubt many girls want it either. Even if they were fine with her seeing them naked, the dad's aren't going to want their daughters seeing a dick every day.

Further, if all it takes to get in the girls' locker room is a dress and wig, there will be other guys doing just for the view. As an example, a company my wife used to work for allowed shorts, because some guys complained that women could wear dresses and they couldn't wear shorts. Their boss said "well, you can wear a dress too." So a large group of them did for months until they changed the dress code. It isn't that hard to wear a dress for a decent payoff.

Finally, if you are truly above body shame, post naked, timestamped pictures with identification of yourself and girlfriend/wife/sister. I'll be waiting over at /B/. If you are uncomfortable doing that, why should a bunch of high schoolers basically have to do the same thing every day in front of someone that makes them uncomfortable?

I am not sure what the true final solution will be for these matters, but I think offering gender neutral facilities is an effective solution for the time being. Maybe someday we will all be beyond modesty, and we can have 6 year-old girls showering with unrelated 60 year-old men, but in the mean time I think we need to come up with a practical solution that is as fair as possible to everyone involved. It sounds like this school has tried to be fair by offering a gender neutral facility.

Edit: BTW: I fully support transgender, I have zero issue with them, and I hope making the change either emotionally and/or physically will bring peace to them. But I also don't think modesty and prudeness are evil ideals and respect people who value those ideals.

Well said.

Not at all, but FtM trans can't use urinal so they goto stall. Door closed so prolly not much male objection

As many times I've been to crowded bar where women go into men's bathroom. Don't ever recall an objection.

This is true. Men are pigs, and we think women in the men's room are cool. One concert I even saw a young woman belly up to a urinal and successfully use that. Nobody objected. (Or if they did, it couldn't be heard over the wooing.) Even in school, girls know boys want to see them naked whereas boys are looking for girls who want to see them naked. Would be a problem in the showers, not so much in the restrooms.

 

[Cozarkian]

The only way to address Trans issues is to eliminate gender segregation. Unisex bathrooms, locker rooms, etc.

You don't have any concerns about increased sexual harassment? Are we going to install metal detectors a locker rooms to prevent boys from taking photos of changing girls?

Also, two of my friends in high school were step brother and sister. Are you really prepared to make them change in front of each other? What if the step sister thinks the brother is a perv and she always locks the door at homework changing or using the restroom?

 

[waggy]

The only way to address Trans issues is to eliminate gender segregation. Unisex bathrooms, locker rooms, etc.

In time that is going ot happen.

BUT not now and i feel forcing teen/pre-teen girls to accept a male into the bathroom is not right.

 

[bshole]

WTF, they will object. Why do you pretend that trans men (FtM) don't exist. That seems to be common among the bigots like you.

I believe the transgender population is around 0.2%..... 2 out of every 1000. In a typical school of 600 people there may be a single transgender person. It exists but it is quite rare. I have known 1 trangender person in my life. That person committed suicide after constant harassment from her co-workers. She was a teacher at my kids school.

I certainly would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable with my daughter sharing the shower room with a person having a cock no matter their gender preference. It is isn't that I think he would do anything, I just don't want my daughter around male genetalia until her wedding night.

Have the fucking surgery already and then you can go into the girls shower room. I have little sympathy for supposedly transgender individuals who don't have the surgery. There is no excuse for keeping the cock and balls if you feel you are female and then forcing other girls to undress in front of you against their will.

 

[Cozarkian]

This is silly and you know it.

The idea that men will claim to be transexual in order to get into women's locker rooms is frequently trotted out as a problem despite there being exactly zero evidence this actually takes place. (not to mention policies that allow trans people to use their preferred facilities don't work that way).

...

I'm not against gender neutral facilities in principle either, but I can see why a trans person wouldn't want to use them. (they would basically be the trans person facilities.) I get that our prudishness (which is a bad thing, IMO) won't go away overnight, but I see little reason to cater to it.

It is silly to claim that the football team is going to put on dresses and lipstick to get into the girls' locker room. But if it becomes common policy to assign transgenders to locker rooms based on their identity rather than anatomy, it is ludicrous to pretend there won't be some smart-ass at many schools who claims to be a transgender girl so he can use the girls' locker room. He'll probably also try to sneak some pictures with a cell phone to share with his friends.

How exactly are transgender policies going to stop that? Are we going to enact bigoted policies requiring people prove they are authenticate by cross-dressing and/or passing a psychiatric evaluation?

Why is it inappropriate to cater to the prudishness of girls with female anatomy who don't want to change in front of people with male anatomy but appropriate to cater to the prudishness of a girl with male anatomy who doesn't want to do so?

Also, what happens if a school has two transgender girls? If they don't want to change in front of people with male anatomy how can they change in front of each other?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I just don't want my daughter around male genetalia until her wedding night.

That's the most unreasonable expectation anyone has espoused in this entire thread.

 

[Cozarkian]

Have the fucking surgery already and then you can go into the girls shower room. I have little sympathy for supposedly transgender individuals who don't have the surgery. There is no excuse for keeping the cock and balls if you feel you are female and then forcing other girls to undress in front of you against their will.

Are you sure it is as simple as scheduling an operation? There may be medical requirements to prepare one's body, such as extended hormone treatment. There is also the consideration of money. Are these operations covered by insurance? If not, it isn't fair to criticize a transgender kid whose parents won't pay for the operation.

 

[bshole]

That's the most unreasonable expectation anyone has espoused in this entire thread.

Well goddamnit, its my daughter!!!

 

[bshole]

Are you sure it is as simple as scheduling an operation? There may be medical requirements to prepare one's body, such as extended hormone treatment. There is also the consideration of money. Are these operations covered by insurance? If not, it isn't fair to criticize a transgender kid whose parents won't pay for the operation.

I believe most insurance pays for it now. This is the 21st century.

 

[BoberFett]

That's the most unreasonable expectation anyone has espoused in this entire thread.

Damn straight, that's just crazy talk. Way crazier than a boy in a wig thinking he should use the girl's locker room.

As others have pointed out, why does only one side get to have their feelings taken into consideration? That's what this all about. Biologically, this child has a male body. Everything else is feelings. But it's only that one person's feelings that seem to matter in this debate, not the feelings of the hundreds of people around him. Why is that?

 

[Spungo]

You can tell how big a dick is without it being hard.

No you can't.
http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/bib-penis.html

 

[BoberFett]

Showers and growers.

 

[bshole]

No you can't.
http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/bib-penis.html

If you are 9" long flaccid, I highly suspect that you are not 3" long turgid. Turgidity does not engender shrinkage. Why the obsession with penis size anyways?

 

[Cozarkian]

I believe most insurance pays for it now. This is the 21st century.

I think a little research into the facts is warranted before making negative judgments against others based on assumption.

 

[PottedMeat]

If you are 9" long flaccid, I highly suspect that you are not 3" long turgid. Turgidity does not engender shrinkage. Why the obsession with penis size anyways?

well it's certainly on your mind mr pringles can

Yea that is majorally fucked up. We showered naked. It really sucked for the guys with small cocks, they got massive persecution..... thank God I am extremely well endowed.... I never had to suffer that ignomy.

 

[Aikouka]

No, the 'bigot card' is pretty much spot on. Just so you know, in order to be bigoted against someone that doesn't mean you have to be attempting to expel them or murder them.

Just as people tend to pull out the slippery slope argument, I do think people tend to claim that others are bigoted way too often and usually without merit. Now, let's be clear, will you find someone at that school that's definitely bigoted against transgendered individuals? Sure. I'm not trying to state that they don't exist, but rather that claims of bigotry tend to be far too blanketed to be legit. To be bigoted against this girl, they'd have to be acting simply because of her transgendered state.

Now, I know what you're going to say... "But aikouka, they are doing it because she's transgendered!" I don't believe that's the case, and that's not what these other posters are suggesting. At least from what I've gathered reading this, the issue is that when this girl is in the locker room, you're seeing someone who's mentally a female and physically a male. It isn't the combination (i.e. being a pre-op/hormonal transgender) that they have an issue with, it's that there's someone that's physically a male.

Do I wish this girl could find more acceptance? Of course. Do I blame any of the other girls for not wanting to see someone that has the physical aspects of a male in their bathroom? I don't think I can blame them for that. Although, I'm not sure if most guys would complain about the reverse.

 

[Sonikku]

I believe the transgender population is around 0.2%..... 2 out of every 1000. In a typical school of 600 people there may be a single transgender person. It exists but it is quite rare. I have known 1 trangender person in my life. That person committed suicide after constant harassment from her co-workers. She was a teacher at my kids school.

I certainly would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable with my daughter sharing the shower room with a person having a cock no matter their gender preference. It is isn't that I think he would do anything, I just don't want my daughter around male genetalia until her wedding night.

Have the fucking surgery already and then you can go into the girls shower room. I have little sympathy for supposedly transgender individuals who don't have the surgery. There is no excuse for keeping the cock and balls if you feel you are female and then forcing other girls to undress in front of you against their will.

Save, perhaps, for the $15,000-$20,000 you need to get it of course. How rich were you in high school? Mom and dad have that kind of cash laying around for a rainy day?

 

[Spungo]

If you are 9" long flaccid, I highly suspect that you are not 3" long turgid. Turgidity does not engender shrinkage. Why the obsession with penis size anyways?

Honestly, I think a lot of men are closet gay. I think it was Joe Rogan's podcast where this was really put into perspective. The guest said something like "my friend would brag that his cum could shoot as high as the ceiling" and Joe said something like "he's trying to trick you into watching him jerk off."
/mind blown

Save, perhaps, for the $15,000-$20,000 you need to get it of course. How rich were you in high school? Mom and dad have that kind of cash laying around for a rainy day?

And there's no going back. That's the reason I don't have any tattoos. I can't think of a single thing I would want painted on my skin that I wouldn't want reversed 20 years from now. Why do people tattoo the names of their children? Even the worst parents can remember the names of their kids without looking at their arm....

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

If you are 9" long flaccid, I highly suspect that you are not 3" long turgid. Turgidity does not engender shrinkage. Why the obsession with penis size anyways?

First day on the planet?