Mandatory 2 Year Military Service after HS?

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Gee, seems like some people are worried there might be a chance that they will have to do something that they don't want to do. That's not fair, that's not democratic. By god, it's down right unconstitutional!!

Yes. Despite the 130+ posts in this thread, he only reason anyone has to be against mandatory military service is cowardice.

I'll throw a few into that quote as well...

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun.

uh...

:roll:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Gee, seems like some people are worried there might be a chance that they will have to do something that they don't want to do. That's not fair, that's not democratic. By god, it's down right unconstitutional!!

Yes. Despite the 130+ posts in this thread, he only reason anyone has to be against mandatory military service is cowardice.

I'll throw a few into that quote as well...

Aren't you a brave lad. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I believe the expression is "A fine young cannibal".

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Yo CK - heres what I think:

The current military is entirely voluntary. These people want to go and fight. And therein I see the problem. We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun.

Wow that made no sense. So basically your 'problem' with the current system is that the people in A) and B) WANT to go while others that DON'T WANT to are being forced to? I hate to sound trollish, but that's what you're giving me.

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Thats what I think is hurting us on the ground in Iraq and globally in a sense. If you have an army which is a cross section of American society you will get people like myself or yourself whom may have different ideals and may help change the peoples opinion on the ground - you know?

Of course, the most important thing we need are people on the front lines of combat discussing political ideas and considering that the war they're fighting is unjust.. Infact while our troops are over there, they should engage in friendly debates. Oh wait, they're fighting a war!!! =\ Again, hate to sound trollish..

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Proletariat
We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun.

uh...

:roll:

Well dude what do you think? The grunts understand a global scheme to centralize terrorists in Iraq and fight them there? Hell our leadership doesn't even understand that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are our biggest enemies and are just playing politics with us. I understand that the soldiers are fighting a tough battle over there, but the simple facts are facts.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Aren't you a brave lad. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Uh, no... just not a dumb@ss.

Don't ask me what the hell you're laughing at... senile much old man?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

So you just after me again gunslinger?? Is this what's called a personal attack?? I never used the word rich, you brought that word into the fray, right along with the word bigot.

If you have a problem with me, then PM me with what it is, because this is BS, palin and simple.

What? I was responding to FS, getting my ideas of rich from his quote:

The best way to check an overly aggressive government is to put the sons and daughters of the upper classes at the same risk as the lower classes that are forced to join the military for economic reasons.

I wasn't even responding to you at all in this post, and have no idea where you could possibly see a personal attack in any of my posts here, but you go ahead and ride that indignation, cowboy! :beer:

Yes ahole, you are making a personal attack on me. Well get fvked. Is that palin enough for you??

Yep, as "palin" as the nose on my face, Cutie. :lips:

You ARE a coward, aren't you. That is why this gets to you so bad, your one of those people.

Well, i stick by my words:

Gee, seems like some people are worried there might be a chance that they will have to do something that they don't want to do. That's not fair, that's not democratic. By god, it's down right unconstitutional!!

Maybe next time you back a war you should think about that first?? A bullet in the head would sure put a crimper on your style, wouldn't it. If Congress (or Bush, Cheney, powell, etc.) had to put their children in harms way maybe they would have looked at the intelligence a little harder.....maybe even a LOT harder.

I used to be against a draft, but this Iraq war has shown me the fallacy of my thinking. If a war is worth fighting, then BY GOD let our leaders have their loved ones in harms way and no exemptions for ANYBODY.

You don't like it, shucks. :brokenheart: I'll try not to lose any sleep over it.

Run Forest, run.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Proletariat
We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun.

uh...

:roll:

Well dude what do you think? The grunts understand a global scheme to centralize terrorists in Iraq and fight them there? Hell our leadership doesn't even understand that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are our biggest enemies and are just playing politics with us. I understand that the soldiers are fighting a tough battle over there, but the simple facts are facts.

I think you really have no idea about the military and the people in it. Your dismal view sounds very much like a simplistic hollywood formula.

Stereotypes in this situation aren't harmless. Expand your horizons.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Wow that made no sense. So basically your 'problem' with the current system is that the people in A) and B) WANT to go while others that DON'T WANT to are being forced to? I hate to sound trollish, but that's what you're giving me.

I understand what you are saying but try to look at the overall picture. The Iraqis are seeing a limited cross section of our society. If they saw it as a whole maybe they wouldn't be so compelled to fight the occupation. Hell maybe its a pipe dream. Maybe there are few people in America that don't actually wish them harm. But thats what I was trying to say.

Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Of course, the most important thing we need are people on the front lines of combat discussing political ideas and considering that the war they're fighting is unjust.. Infact while our troops are over there, they should engage in friendly debates. Oh wait, they're fighting a war!!! =\ Again, hate to sound trollish..

When you draft people automatically discuss political ideas. Look what happened in Vietnam. You're waiting for deployment on the front lines and you discuss sh!t with your buddies and your officers. Right now its probably a circle jerk.

Situation A)

We are about to bust into a house with no evidence. Which happens plenty of times from what marines coming back from Iraq have told me. You either A) bust in or B) try a different method.

I highly doubt myself, CK, yourself or a lot of the other people on these boards would just bust in. We have education on these matters. We read about the Vietnam War and International Laws and have realized that there must be an ideal to uphold in order to not lose the peoples trust.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Yo CK - heres what I think:

The current military is entirely voluntary. These people want to go and fight. And therein I see the problem. We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun. Thats what I think is hurting us on the ground in Iraq and globally in a sense. If you have an army which is a cross section of American society you will get people like myself or yourself whom may have different ideals and may help change the peoples opinion on the ground - you know?

Hmm.. I can see your point, but I don't think it's as prevalent an issue as you want to believe. I'm sure many people are "gung-ho" about joining the military, and maybe a small few think that they will find killing "fun," but these are not the types of people who will be in any position to make policy. I have almost no day-to-day military exposure, other than a few friends and coworkers who have served, and customers I limited contact with, so this is all speculation. But I would imagine that these "I want to kill!" types, if they exist, are used only in situations that do not particularly call for tactical discrimination or discern. I doubt they rise up to the ranks of military advisors that whisper in the CiC's ear.

I don't think the people "on the ground" really should be in position to influence and change the opinions of others. That power should lie with the higher-ups, the ones that have to answer to the citizens. The ones we elect, or who are appointed by those we elect. Hell, look at a jury pool. It's hard enough to get these people to come to a cohesive conclusion about whether the man on camera realy *did* rob that store. And they are in a decidedly non-hostile environment. You want to arm these same people and let them express their concern and differences in a combat zone?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Aren't you a brave lad. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Uh, no... just not a dumb@ss.

Don't ask me what the hell you're laughing at... senile much old man?

I'm laughing at a chickenhawk. Obviously, your not as smart as you think you are.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Proletariat
We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun.

uh...

:roll:

Well dude what do you think? The grunts understand a global scheme to centralize terrorists in Iraq and fight them there? Hell our leadership doesn't even understand that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are our biggest enemies and are just playing politics with us. I understand that the soldiers are fighting a tough battle over there, but the simple facts are facts.

I think you really have no idea about the military and the people in it. Your dismal view sounds very much like a simplistic hollywood formula.

Stereotypes in this situation aren't harmless. Expand your horizons.

*sigh* Jerome.

You think there are actually people in the army that are highly educated in global affairs? Do you honestly think that? I've met a lot of dudes from Iraq and through polite discourse have learned their opinion. Most of them are out there to get ahead or they like to listen to metal music and kill people. And I can't blame either of them for it. Thats how it is. I'm thinking you need to expand your horizons dude.

I may not know anything about being actually ON THE GROUND in Iraq but I used to get constant briefings about Kashmir. It is very similiar to the fight our forces are fighting in Iraq. Although I think the draft is fundamentally flawed - conservatives at the time were fine with it. The Liberals pushed it as flawed. Maybe you should listen to us again? I think a lot of liberals thought we wouldn't have another war but now want to be on the ground because of what they see.

Bleh I guess we are being flaky. Thats what I have realized to a certain extent. I don't think REAL democracy can be spread by the gun we need to have a global consensus. A global debate. I for one would have loved to see Bush and Saddam go at it in the UN before they fought.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

You ARE a coward, aren't you. That is why this gets to you so bad, your one of those people.

Yes, this is "getting to me so bad" that I'm the one foaming at the mouth and telling everyone to "get fvked," while expressing faux indignation at non-existant personal attacks.

I guess you got me. :thumbsup:

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Aren't you a brave lad. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Uh, no... just not a dumb@ss.

Don't ask me what the hell you're laughing at... senile much old man?

I'm laughing at a chickenhawk, obviously. Your not as smart as you think you are.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Gawd... so that's the core of your argument- people against mandatory service (and the draft) are cowards. You are so lame I can't even believe it. Behold... a liberal standardbearer in action!! :roll:

You're a disgrace. I'm embarassed FOR you. My military friends have more courage in a flake of earwax than you have in you're whole, worthless body. People like you make people like us wonder if what we do is worth it.

Mine and cK's and anyone elses military service (or lack thereof) is irrelevant to the argument. I guess when your reasoning fails, someone like you must result to pitiful emotional insults and extreme ignorance.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

You ARE a coward, aren't you. That is why this gets to you so bad, your one of those people.

Yes, this is "getting to me so bad" that I'm the one foaming at the mouth and telling everyone to "get fvked," while expressing faux indignation at non-existant personal attacks.

I guess you got me. :thumbsup:

Yeah, it bothered you so little you felt you had to respond to it. I get it. You think others should do your fighting for you. They can die while you sit on your arse and complain about people being bigoted against the rich.

Isn't it time for you to start complaining about the inheritance taxes? You make me want to puke. :disgust:

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Yo CK - heres what I think:

The current military is entirely voluntary. These people want to go and fight. And therein I see the problem. We basically have a bunch of people who either A) need the money/benefits or B) are out there to kill - I.E. they find war fun. Thats what I think is hurting us on the ground in Iraq and globally in a sense. If you have an army which is a cross section of American society you will get people like myself or yourself whom may have different ideals and may help change the peoples opinion on the ground - you know?

Hmm.. I can see your point, but I don't think it's as prevalent an issue as you want to believe. I'm sure many people are "gung-ho" about joining the military, and maybe a small few think that they will find killing "fun," but these are not the types of people who will be in any position to make policy. I have almost no day-to-day military exposure, other than a few friends and coworkers who have served, and customers I limited contact with, so this is all speculation. But I would imagine that these "I want to kill!" types, if they exist, are used only in situations that do not particularly call for tactical discrimination or discern. I doubt they rise up to the ranks of military advisors that whisper in the CiC's ear.

I don't think the people "on the ground" really should be in position to influence and change the opinions of others. That power should lie with the higher-ups, the ones that have to answer to the citizens. The ones we elect, or who are appointed by those we elect. Hell, look at a jury pool. It's hard enough to get these people to come to a cohesive conclusion about whether the man on camera realy *did* rob that store. And they are in a decidedly non-hostile environment. You want to arm these same people and let them express their concern and differences in a combat zone?

To your first para - I'd have to say... this is graphic but when I chill with Marines I try to get the details w/o bringing back bad memories.

Some of them told of times when they completely defied Geneva Conventions and went straight in guns ablazing. I mean sawed-off shotguns taking out Iraqis straight up. Shooting a bunch of dudes walking across the street... its understandable without level headedness in the unit you can do anything you want; its pretty much a video game.

As for the second... Man people on the ground influence EVERYTHING. Your daily interactions with occupied citizens and officials mean everything. Being respectful, respecting local customs and not engaging in abuse is very important. Trust must be gained on a citywide level in my opinion. Ya know?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Aren't you a brave lad. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Uh, no... just not a dumb@ss.

Don't ask me what the hell you're laughing at... senile much old man?

I'm laughing at a chickenhawk, obviously. Your not as smart as you think you are.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Gawd... so that's the core of your argument- people against mandatory service (and the draft) are cowards. You are so lame I can't even believe it. Behold... a liberal standardbearer in action!! :roll:

You're a disgrace. I'm embarassed FOR you. My military friends have more courage in a flake of earwax than you have in you're whole, worthless body. People like you make people like us wonder if what we do is worth it.

Mine and cK's and anyone elses military service (or lack thereof) is irrelevant to the argument. I guess when your reasoning fails, someone like you must result to pitiful emotional insults and extreme ignorance.

Your the disgrace. Read my post about why I'm for a draft, chickenhawk.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
You think there are actually people in the army that are highly educated in global affairs? Do you honestly think that?

Some of the smartest and best people I've ever known have been, or are in, the military. Am I educated in global affairs?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Yeah, it bothered you so little you felt you had to respond to it. I get it. You think others should do your fighting for you. They can die while you sit on your arse and complain about people being bigoted against the rich.

LOL. What do they say in OT? &nbsp Reading comprehension, FTW!

Isn't it time for you to start complaining about the inheritance taxes? You make me want to puke. :disgust:

Let me help you out there, pal: :bucket;

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Yeah, it bothered you so little you felt you had to respond to it. I get it. You think others should do your fighting for you. They can die while you sit on your arse and complain about people being bigoted against the rich.

LOL. What do they say in OT?   Reading comprehension, FTW!

Isn't it time for you to start complaining about the inheritance taxes? You make me want to puke. :disgust:

Let me help you out there, pal: :bucket;

From what I can see, that's about all your good for bucket boy.

:lips:

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Proletariat
You think there are actually people in the army that are highly educated in global affairs? Do you honestly think that?

Some of the smartest and best people I've ever known have been, or are in, the military. Am I educated in global affairs?

I think you are to a certain extent very well-educated. But I personally think what a lot of people need is worldly experience. India, Europe, Asia, Middle East. Being on the ground gives you an open look into peoples lives, daily struggles and opinions.

I've heard a lot of haunting things from my half-relatives in India.

"Why do Americans say they are fighting a global war on terror? Thousands of us die every month from terrorists who use American arms??? Where is the support? We give them satellite maps of the North West Frontier Province and get nothing?"

I don't know how to respond to do that. I agree with the Neo-Con assault on terror. But I think it must be truly global to make a difference.

 

[iskim86]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
Think we should have mandatory military service for 2 years after school?

like korea? feck no.

 

[iskim86]

and if them young men joined the military after HS, would they automatically go to war if a war breaks out?

 

[Alistar7]

I voted yes but I agree with other posters that perhaps the time frame should only be one year of service. I also feel other options besides military service should also be offered.

I think it would have a dramatic and postive effect of the yutes themselves, and society as a whole.

 

[mikeford]

I "voted" yes in the poll, but my choice would be for a system of "highly encouraged" public service with the militiary or 100% military just one option. I also would not place too many age restrictions, certainly not everybody fresh out of HS, and certainly no upper limit. Some sort of system of civic credits, getting 4 years of college makes a civic debt that teaching could pay off, or it reverts to a student loan. A flexible system that makes the country nicer, rewards those that help others and generates a bond between people.