Man walks into Kroger with loaded AR15

[xj0hnx]

Open carrying sends a message. "I can kill you." Open carrying a rifle says "I can kill you from a distance."

This isn't just sent to criminals. Its sent to everyone.

No, it doesn't send that message, it doesn't really send any message. That is something your mind is creating because you fear them.

 

[irishScott]

Really? So if a person goes into a grocery store with explosives strapped to his chest but doesn't detonate them, he's not a terrorist?

No, he's a criminal guilty of illegal possession and transportation of prohibited explosives; and due to the instability of most explosives he's putting everyone in immediate danger. Now if he started issuing orders and threatening to blow himself up if they didn't listen, that's a different story.


So if some pundit goes on TV and tells his audience that if they vote for someone they're destroying America, and his audience believes him and does what he says, he's a terrorist? Because that's intimidation in the name of political action.

 

[irishScott]

In most places you would be well within your right to do so, but you when you go out you know that some people are going to freak out over it.
Even in places like where open carry is completely legal most people don't simply because of the disturbance it causes.

CC > OC, same ability to defend oneself with out all the stupid people having a cow.

Yeah, I'm not condoning the action, and I'd never open-carry outside of extreme circumstances for the very reasons you mention.

I was just pointing out that you can't determine if someone is dangerously irrational solely from the fact that they're open-carrying.

 

[Throckmorton]

No, it doesn't send that message, it doesn't really send any message. That is something your mind is creating because you fear them.

Then why did everybody freak out and call the police? Were they just being irrational?

What if he did the same thing at a school?

Can we just ban open carry already? That way as soon as we see someone brandishing a weapon (that's what open carrying essentially is) we can shoot him.

 

[irishScott]

Open carrying sends a message. "I can kill you." Open carrying a rifle says "I can kill you from a distance."

This isn't just sent to criminals. Its sent to everyone.

I'm wearing a fleece jacket right now, and a couple tables over some guy is just in a T-shirt. He doesn't seem to give a shit, but I suppose I'm utterly depressing him by sending the message "I'm warmer than you." right?


A guy with a rifle is a guy with a rifle. Just because he can kill you from a distance is no indication that he will.

 

[irishScott]

Then why did everybody freak out and call the police? Were they just being irrational?

What if he did the same thing at a school?

Can we just ban open carry already? That way as soon as we see someone brandishing a weapon (that's what open carrying essentially is) we can shoot him.

Because people are stupid and prone to panic.

Then he'd be in violation of federal law.

No, brandishing is explicitly defined in most criminal codes as pointing a weapon at someone else. Otherwise I guess police officers are "brandishing" their weapons 24/7.

 

[Tom]

I'm wearing a fleece jacket right now, and a couple tables over some guy is just in a T-shirt. He doesn't seem to give a shit, but I suppose I'm utterly depressing him by sending the message "I'm warmer than you." right?


A guy with a rifle is a guy with a rifle. Just because he can kill you from a distance is no indication that he will.

A guy with a rifle in a grocery store is not just a guy with a rifle. Or anyplace else that there's no purpose for having a rifle other than to say to people I have the power to kill you.

If that guy a couple of tables says to you, "I can kill you", you are saying that means nothing ?

 

[irishScott]

A guy with a rifle in a grocery store is not just a guy with a rifle. Or anyplace else that there's no purpose for having a rifle other than to say to people I have the power to kill you.

If that guy a couple of tables says to you, "I can kill you", you are saying that means nothing ?

No, you just apparently lack the ability to comprehend any other purpose for carrying such a rifle. Hasn't it been established that he was doing so as part of a 2nd amendment protest? Thought they found a note. He likely thought, much like the Utah guy, that he was doing his cause a service by exposing people to that which they don't understand, and demonstrating its harmlessness in the right hands.

You're putting non-existent words, actions, and intentions in the guy's mouth. Much like you are to the guy in the OP.

I'm sorry you're so locked into these preconceptions.

 

[Tom]

No, you just apparently lack the ability to comprehend any other purpose for carrying such a rifle. Hasn't it been established that he was doing so as part of a 2nd amendment protest? Thought they found a note. He likely thought, much like the Utah guy, that he was doing his cause a service by exposing people to that which they don't understand, and demonstrating its harmlessness in the right hands.

You're putting non-existent words, actions, and intentions in the guy's mouth. Much like you are to the guy in the OP.

I'm sorry you're so locked into these preconceptions.

I am not putting his words or intentions anywhere. They aren't relevant to what I said.

However, YOU are saying what his intentions are. You fault me for doing something,that I did not do, and turn around and do exactly what you just faulted me for.

As far as the note, I heard there was a note too. I haven't heard anyone say what was in the note. Since no one has said he's mute and has the ability to speak, I assume he had a note in case he got shot.

And they aren't MY preconceptions. They are the understanding of pretty much the human race, actually the entire animal kingdom. At least the part that relies on visual clues as to what is a threat.

 

[irishScott]

I am not putting his words or intentions anywhere. They aren't relevant to what I said.

However, YOU are saying what his intentions are. You fault me for doing something,that I did not do, and turn around and do exactly what you just faulted me for.

As far as the note, I heard there was a note too. I haven't heard anyone say what was in the note. Since no one has said he's mute and has the ability to speak, I assume he had a note in case he got shot.

And they aren't MY preconceptions. They are the understanding of pretty much the human race, actually the entire animal kingdom. At least the part that relies on visual clues as to what is a threat.

Wasn't a suicide note. Gonad posted this earlier: http://www.nbc29.com/story/20755619/kroger-gun-stunt-sparks-2nd-amendment-debate

Officers did find a note in his pocket spelling out his intent to express his 2nd Amendment rights.

Right, so I guess we've established that in the face of some random dude with a gun on his back in a grocery store who's otherwise not hurting/aiming at anyone, I assume "dumbass 2nd amendment protestor" and you (and a lot of people) assume "ZOMG NEXT SANDY HOOK".

Counting the Utah guy and this guy, it appears my rationale is 2 for 2 over "the understanding of pretty much the human race, actually the entire animal kingdom."

 

[Tom]

Wasn't a suicide note. Gonad posted this earlier: http://www.nbc29.com/story/20755619/kroger-gun-stunt-sparks-2nd-amendment-debate



Right, so I guess we've established that in the face of some random dude with a gun on his back in a grocery store who's otherwise not hurting/aiming at anyone, I assume "dumbass 2nd amendment protestor" and you (and a lot of people) assume "ZOMG NEXT SANDY HOOK".

Counting the Utah guy and this guy, it appears my rationale is 2 for 2 over "the understanding of pretty much the human race, actually the entire animal kingdom."

From the article-

"National Rifle Association (NRA) instructor Bill Davis says the gun incident was inappropriate and could have turned violent.

"I think it reflects on all gun owners in a bad way," Davis said. "I've talked to six NRA instructors this morning about it. Why did he have that note in his pocket? I think - this is my personal opinion - I think he expected to be shot, so they would have found the note and said he wasn't doing nothing.""

You say he didn't have a suicide note..how do you reach that conclusion ? This NRA instructor speculates about it for the same reasons I do.

Do you really want to argue that carrying a rifle into a grocery store, with maybe some expectation of being shot, is a rational act ?

And what's the point of it being loaded ?

 

[Pulsar]

I know I would have been terrorized if I saw someone walking into the grocery store with a loaded assault rifle, like he plans to gun us all down. I am sure many there felt the same way.

Really? Can you cite where he walked in with gun-to-shoulder, aiming at people and terrorizing them, like he planned to gun them all down?

Or did he walk in, rifle slung, like happens around where I live on an almost daily basis because we all hunt here and stop at the local IGA on our way out?

You are an asshole of the worst type.

 

[Pulsar]

Open carrying sends a message. "I can kill you." Open carrying a rifle says "I can kill you from a distance."

This isn't just sent to criminals. Its sent to everyone.

That is an ignorant and incorrect standpoint. Per may last post, we live in a fairly rural area.

40 minutes north of Detroit.

It is a REGULAR occurance here for people to walk into the supermarket with rifle slung over the sholder to grab a coffee or some food. It occasions no negative comments. Often they get stopped because people want to look at the rifle and praise it, rather than stand in terror that they have a OMG GUN GUN GUN.

Are you scared you might catch "the gay" too, like you're scared you might catch a bullet?

 

[irishScott]

From the article-

"National Rifle Association (NRA) instructor Bill Davis says the gun incident was inappropriate and could have turned violent.

"I think it reflects on all gun owners in a bad way," Davis said. "I've talked to six NRA instructors this morning about it. Why did he have that note in his pocket? I think - this is my personal opinion - I think he expected to be shot, so they would have found the note and said he wasn't doing nothing.""

You say he didn't have a suicide note..how do you reach that conclusion ? This NRA instructor speculates about it for the same reasons I do.

Do you really want to argue that carrying a rifle into a grocery store, with maybe some expectation of being shot, is a rational act ?

And what's the point of it being loaded ?

And who was he expecting to shoot him? The checkout clerks? If he wanted to stupidly martyr himself for the 2nd amendment there are a million more efficient ways to go about it. Why Kroger? Sounds like pretty weak speculation unless it comes to light that he was planning to get violent, of which there is no evidence.

The point of the loaded rifle was the same as the Utah guy, it's exercising the 2nd to its limit.

Maybe he is a bad apple, maybe he should have his guns taken away and see a court-ordered shrink. But I haven't heard anything to confirm that and so long as we're speculating, it's just as likely he was copycatting the Utah guy.

 

[xj0hnx]

Then why did everybody freak out and call the police? Were they just being irrational?

What if he did the same thing at a school?

Can we just ban open carry already? That way as soon as we see someone brandishing a weapon (that's what open carrying essentially is) we can shoot him.

Everybody? There was one person that freaked out, the cops didn't show up with SWAT, the guy was released after a brief questioning.

 

[Tom]

That is an ignorant and incorrect standpoint. Per may last post, we live in a fairly rural area.

40 minutes north of Detroit.

It is a REGULAR occurance here for people to walk into the supermarket with rifle slung over the sholder to grab a coffee or some food. It occasions no negative comments. Often they get stopped because people want to look at the rifle and praise it, rather than stand in terror that they have a OMG GUN GUN GUN.

Are you scared you might catch "the gay" too, like you're scared you might catch a bullet?

Any other hate speech you'd like to associate yourself with ?

 

[Tom]

And who was he expecting to shoot him? The checkout clerks? If he wanted to stupidly martyr himself for the 2nd amendment there are a million more efficient ways to go about it. Why Kroger? Sounds like pretty weak speculation unless it comes to light that he was planning to get violent, of which there is no evidence.

The point of the loaded rifle was the same as the Utah guy, it's exercising the 2nd to its limit.

Maybe he is a bad apple, maybe he should have his guns taken away and see a court-ordered shrink. But I haven't heard anything to confirm that and so long as we're speculating, it's just as likely he was copycatting the Utah guy.

I don't disagree with you that it could be why he did it. Without knowing exactly what the note said its just speculation but carrying a note rather than just saying what you're doing seems like its possible he thought he'd be shot.

Why wouldn't the clerks be able to shoot him ? Aren't sensible people supposed to be armed ?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The guy was being an asshole; anyone that says he wasn't is likely, themselves, an asshole. The guy was JUST being an asshole, anyone that calls him a terrorist or resorts to hyperbole about this assholes assholery is likely, also, an asshole.

Shit.

 

[irishScott]

I don't disagree with you that it could be why he did it. Without knowing exactly what the note said its just speculation but carrying a note rather than just saying what you're doing seems like its possible he thought he'd be shot.

Why wouldn't the clerks be able to shoot him ? Aren't sensible people supposed to be armed ?

Yeah, I guess at the end of the day it could go either way, but I choose to think positive. *shrug*


I'm just saying it's highly unlikely anyone in that grocery store was armed.

Statistically speaking running into a CCW holder is very rare, even in Texas only about 2% of the population has a permit, and many of them probably don't carry on a daily basis for whatever reason. Virginia doesn't publish any hard stats, but I doubt we have a higher carry rate than Texas.

 

[Nebor]

I don't disagree with you that it could be why he did it. Without knowing exactly what the note said its just speculation but carrying a note rather than just saying what you're doing seems like its possible he thought he'd be shot.

Why wouldn't the clerks be able to shoot him ? Aren't sensible people supposed to be armed ?

Employees at Kroger aren't allowed to carry firearms at work. Also, you would be charged with murder if you shot someone with a rifle slung on their back.

 

[momeNt]

I don't disagree with you that it could be why he did it. Without knowing exactly what the note said its just speculation but carrying a note rather than just saying what you're doing seems like its possible he thought he'd be shot.

Why wouldn't the clerks be able to shoot him ? Aren't sensible people supposed to be armed ?

hahahaha

 

[outriding]

That is an ignorant and incorrect standpoint. Per may last post, we live in a fairly rural area.

40 minutes north of Detroit.

It is a REGULAR occurance here for people to walk into the supermarket with rifle slung over the sholder to grab a coffee or some food. It occasions no negative comments. Often they get stopped because people want to look at the rifle and praise it, rather than stand in terror that they have a OMG GUN GUN GUN.

Are you scared you might catch "the gay" too, like you're scared you might catch a bullet?

I live 40 minutes north of detroit and it is NOT common.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I don't disagree with you that it could be why he did it. Without knowing exactly what the note said its just speculation but carrying a note rather than just saying what you're doing seems like its possible he thought he'd be shot.

Why wouldn't the clerks be able to shoot him ? Aren't sensible people supposed to be armed ?

....ermm, the cops released him. Meaning, no crime.

Clerks shoot him? Why? He didn't pull it out, he did not say "you will die" - are you just trying to be obtuse?

 

[Nebor]

I live 40 minutes north of detroit and it is NOT common.

I live 18 hours and 26 minutes South by Southwest of Detroit and there's NO fucking Chipotle.

 

[Gerle]

Why wouldn't the clerks be able to shoot him ? Aren't sensible people supposed to be armed ?

If their employer allowed them to be armed, yes they would be able to do so. Would they have a reason to? No, as evidenced they would not. Stop doing this, Tom.