Man shopping in JC Penny in Utah with AR 15 & holstered Glock.

[ivwshane]

The blue arrow on the quote takes you to the full post. It was the #2 post in this thread.

Thanks, I actually didn't know that

Nothing is wrong with it, pussies have to protect themselves


We have a thread about a guy trying to make a point that guns aren't scary and I'm countering that life isn't scary and you don't need a gun. He wants people to respect his right to carry a gun but doesn't want to respect people who see guns as scary.

It's a little ironic if you ask me.

 

[poohbear]

"The OBVIOUS thing to do is nothing until he starts shooting people".

Thats from post #2, but its just so absurd that he's saying thats obvious! By the time he starts shooting people its already too late! The OBVIOUS thing for me is to limit all guns so u dont have people walking around with semi- automatic weapons. But hey maybe common sense is just too complicated for some.

We believe in nuclear disarmament because if ALL countries had nuclear weapons the possibility of mutual destruction is not something that we want. The same with guns, if we all have one we're not safer, we just have the oppurtunity of mutual destruction down to an individual level.

 

[ivwshane]

"The OBVIOUS thing to do is nothing until he starts shooting people".

Thats from post #2, but its just so absurd that he's saying thats obvious! By the time he starts shooting people its already too late! The OBVIOUS thing for me is to limit all guns so u dont have people walking around with semi- automatic weapons. But hey maybe common sense is just too complicated for some.

We believe in nuclear disarmament because if ALL countries had nuclear weapons the possibility of mutual destruction is not something that we want. The same with guns, if we all have one we're not safer, we just have the oppurtunity of mutual destruction down to an individual level.

I agree. Prevention is better than waiting for something to happen, the key is how do you balance prevention with rights?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Thanks, I actually didn't know that

Nothing is wrong with it, pussies have to protect themselves


We have a thread about a guy trying to make a point that guns aren't scary and I'm countering that life isn't scary and you don't need a gun. He wants people to respect his right to carry a gun but doesn't want to respect people who see guns as scary.

It's a little ironic if you ask me.

And I'm countering that you're wrong here. I've pulled my gun in defense one time during a break in, and nearly pulled another time when someone who was pretty clearly messed up on drugs (meth or something, the guy looked pretty awful and was just LOOKING for a fight) near Gasworks Park in Seattle (not an overly bad part of town, really.) I hope I never have to fire the gun at someone, but I'm not going to leave that to chance. I work with someone who got offended by a post I made on facebook (and railed on friend's comments and then blamed me for the comments) and made some remarks to me that made me seriously wonder if they would bring a gun to work (you're not allowed to have firearms at my workplace) - am I crazy that I worried about that? This is someone who apparently made 5 or more suicide attempts and the local PD forced to the hospital for evaluation. They are the least stable person I know, and because of this HR at work basically told me I could work from home if I was afraid of harm. (and hey, let's talk about gun reform, why can someone with 5 suicide attempts and is on drugs that make them even LESS stable allowed NEAR a firearm?)

Everyone at some point in their life has been in fear of their life, real or imagined. The number of times firearms are used for defense FAR outweighs the homicides. I'm not implying it's the wild west out there, but on the flip side of the coin it's not insane to want the ability to defend yourself. I'd suggest looking up John Locke's "first law of nature" as well as some of Hobbes writings.

 

[ivwshane]

And I'm countering that you're wrong here. I've pulled my gun in defense one time during a break in, and nearly pulled another time when someone who was pretty clearly messed up on drugs (meth or something, the guy looked pretty awful and was just LOOKING for a fight) near Gasworks Park in Seattle (not an overly bad part of town, really.) I hope I never have to fire the gun at someone, but I'm not going to leave that to chance. I work with someone who got offended by a post I made on facebook (and railed on friend's comments and then blamed me for the comments) and made some remarks to me that made me seriously wonder if they would bring a gun to work (you're not allowed to have firearms at my workplace) - am I crazy that I worried about that? This is someone who apparently made 5 or more suicide attempts and the local PD forced to the hospital for evaluation. They are the least stable person I know, and because of this HR at work basically told me I could work from home if I was afraid of harm. (and hey, let's talk about gun reform, why can someone with 5 suicide attempts and is not on drugs that make them even LESS stable allowed NEAR a firearm?)

Everyone at some point in their life has been in fear of their life, real or imagined. The number of times firearms are used for defense FAR outweighs the homicides. I'm not implying it's the wild west out there, but on the flip side of the coin it's not insane to want the ability to defend yourself. I'd suggest looking up John Locke's "first law of nature" as well as some of Hobbes writings.

Does everyone who wants to carry a gun have a similar story? Does everyone with a similar story feel they need to display their guns out in the open like the guy at JCP?

I made a generalization there are always exceptions, regardless, you carry your gun out of fear (warranted or not) and you want people to respect that but you don't (I'm generalizing here) want to respect their fears. You can tell me you keep your gun hidden and that would be a possible solution for both parties but that's not what the guy in the story was doing.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Does everyone who wants to carry a gun have a similar story? Does everyone with a similar story feel they need to display their guns out in the open like the guy at JCP?

I think carrying a rifle into a store is just looking for attention. As a rule I'm against open carry. Concealed is ALWAYS best. The guy's point is valid, but he went about it the wrong way.

I made a generalization there are always exceptions, regardless, you carry your gun out of fear (warranted or not) and you want people to respect that but you don't (I'm generalizing here) want to respect their fears. You can tell me you keep your gun hidden and that would be a possible solution for both parties but that's not what the guy in the story was doing.

You don't seem to realize: I bought my gun before those stories. Before those stories, I had no real need for defense in my life. But I also bought guns when I was 22. I got a concealed pistol license because "well, why not?" It's not about "I was in fear so I have a need", it's about "I prize my life more than that of a criminal, so I will kill if it means saving my life, or the lives of other innocent people." I don't carry out of fear. I carry because I know shit happens and I'd rather be prepared. I carry a GPS emegency beacon with me when hiking, but I'm not scared of getting stuck in the wild. I wear Recco tags when boarding, but I'm not afraid of being buried in snow.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I think carrying a rifle into a store is just looking for attention. As a rule I'm against open carry. Concealed is ALWAYS best. The guy's point is valid, but he went about it the wrong way.

Damn right the guy's point is valid. The second amendment guarantees your right to bear arms even when you are scaring a bunch of pussies that act like a guy walking into a department store with a rifle and pistol is something to be concerned over. Freedom!

 

[BigBarney]

No fear at all.

I'm a law abiding citizen because I respect my fellow countrymen and the laws, we as a collective have set up.

If things get dirty I have to wash them, it's far more efficient than getting them dirty and then having to wash objects.

No fear of my teeth falling out, I can get dentures but that's another expense I don't need.

Ah, a wannabe cop? How many people have you saved to date?


I'm a peasant? are you implying you are better than me? Your small penis is showing

I don't carry. You just made the assumption I do and I never said I don't. Just used some responses

 

[blankslate]

Excuse? What does he need an excuse for?

Yes, as was his intent. The good news is most criminals won't be calling attention to themselves.

Asshats don't need an excuse to be asshats they just do it.

Or as was stated in an earlier post

This is the 2nd Amendment equivalent of burning an American flag to assert your free speech rights. It should be legal, and should also be shunned by most normal people as being the action of a self-absorbed asshole.

^simple enough. Go on defending the "self-absorbed asshole" if you want...

 

[emperus]

Damn right the guy's point is valid. The second amendment guarantees your right to bear arms even when you are scaring a bunch of pussies that act like a guy walking into a department store with a rifle and pistol is something to be concerned over. Freedom!

Let's get this right. The guy who wakes up and is in such fear of what may happen that he decides to strap two guns on is a real man. But the people who go through the day willing to confront whatever challenges that come with out any weapons are pussies? gotcha.

 

[irishScott]

Asshats don't need an excuse to be asshats they just do it.

Or as was stated in an earlier post



^simple enough. Go on defending the "self-absorbed asshole" if you want...

I'm not defending him. I'm pointing out the irrational fear of many in this thread.

 

[blankslate]

I'm not defending him. I'm pointing out the irrational fear of many in this thread.

So you do you agree with

This is the 2nd Amendment equivalent of burning an American flag to assert your free speech rights. It should be legal, and should also be shunned by most normal people as being the action of a self-absorbed asshole.

or not?

 

[irishScott]

So you do you agree with

or not?

I agree with it completely. I just see a lot of people in this thread who would apparently outright panic at the mere sight of a guy calmly shopping with an AR-15.

 

[randomrogue]

He said he carries weapons with him in order to protect children and others from "criminals, cartels, drug lords" and other "evil men."

Why do you guys keep overlooking this and only focusing on this:

He said he brought the guns to J.C. Penney to show that firearms are not dangerous in the hands of law-abiding citizens.

 

[ivwshane]

Why do you guys keep overlooking this and only focusing on this:

I didn't overlook it, I specifically addressed it.

 

[sigurros81]

yup. thats a place where open carry is legal......having a gun doesnt make you automatically a criminal.....

Of course if you're not breaking the law, you're not a criminal. But if you do something moronic like walking around a shopping mall with your AR15, you're guilty of being an attention whoring idiot. Reminds me of those fantasy geeks dressing up as an elf walking around with a giant claymore on their back and daggers sheathed to their thighs.

 

[JDBaughman]

Of course if you're not breaking the law, you're not a criminal. But if you do something moronic like walking around a shopping mall with your AR15, you're guilty of being an attention whoring idiot. Reminds me of those fantasy geeks dressing up as an elf walking around with a giant claymore on their back and daggers sheathed to their thighs.

This guy

Yes, we get that you feel like he was an idiot. You deserve a cookie... this converaation has kinda moved away from that...

Also, about the giant swords and shit, thats part of the costume... the giant swords are part of thw costume the comes from japanese anime... has nothing to do with trying to show off and look like billy the nerdy badass... because its pretty lame... noone is getting laid lile that, trust me

Now back to the guy at jcpenny, he is cooler than you. Get over it.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Damn right the guy's point is valid. The second amendment guarantees your right to bear arms even when you are scaring a bunch of pussies that act like a guy walking into a department store with a rifle and pistol is something to be concerned over. Freedom!

Again, he has a valid point, but people like him only serve to make headlines in a bad way. There's a reason that the rallies this past weekend had a general rule of "no camo, no tacticool bs, no rifles. Conceal or don't carry." I mean, go on youtube and look for the open carry harassment videos. The cops are in the wrong to stop people open carrying, but the guys making the videos WANT the cops to stop them for a video. They want drama. I'd rather everyone just silently carry, and the 2nd amendment be "out of sight, out of mind."

You prove gun owners are trustworthy by grabbing average Joe off the street and saying "look, he's normal, right? We'll he's also armed with a gun. Still the same normal dude though." You don't go around with a rifle on your back saying "I'M NORMAL, GUNS ARE SAFE" because by doing so...you're not normal. Carry a rifle in the woods because you're worried about a bear, sure. I don't think you need to worry about bears at JC Penny though.

 

[xj0hnx]

Show me where I said anything anti gun. You can't because I didn't and yet here you are. In fact I don't recall anyone in this thread pushing any anti gun agenda.

Fear of people carrying guns. You claiming you haven't said anything anti-gun is just rich.

You think people being afraid of other people carrying guns is irrational and I think carrying a gun is irrational. I have statistics on my side for wearing a seat belt what facts do you have to rationalize carrying a gun? I showed how more likely you are to be in a traffic accident than to be assaulted you guys have yet to show me any rational reasons why you carry a gun.

As I said before, the anti-gun crowd are the ones saying how the violent crime rate, and gun violence is so out of control that we need to start banning guns, and magazines. So are you saying there's no facts to back up the need to start further regulating firearms, and carrying them, and banning magazines?

I'm not looking for feelings or opinions just facts.

This whole thread is about emotions and feeling. Almost the entire pro gun control side is propped up on nothing more than feelings, and opinions.

 

[ivwshane]

Fear of people carrying guns. You claiming you haven't said anything anti-gun is just rich.



As I said before, the anti-gun crowd are the ones saying how the violent crime rate, and gun violence is so out of control that we need to start banning guns, and magazines. So are you saying there's no facts to back up the need to start further regulating firearms, and carrying them, and banning magazines?



This whole thread is about emotions and feeling. Almost the entire pro gun control side is propped up on nothing more than feelings, and opinions.

You've got nothing.

 

[xj0hnx]

You've got nothing.

Wow, such a brilliant response, did you think of that all by yourself?

 

[Zxian]

This whole thread is about emotions and feeling. Almost the entire pro gun control side is propped up on nothing more than feelings, and opinions.

Well, there's the fact that you've got a higher intentional homicide rate than most first world countries, and a higher gun-related crime rate as well. I'm not arguing that those who are law abiding citizens aren't of good intent, but the overall statistics have something to say for themselves.

I'm all for safe gun ownership, but the present state of affairs is not the way to go about it.

 

[TallBill]

Well, there's the fact that you've got a higher intentional homicide rate than most first world countries, and a higher gun-related crime rate as well. I'm not arguing that those who are law abiding citizens aren't of good intent, but the overall statistics have something to say for themselves.

I'm all for safe gun ownership, but the present state of affairs is not the way to go about it.

We have a huge amount of very large urban centers compared to most first world countries, where most of the crime occurs. We also have an enormous amount of repeat offenders, being unable to keep violent people locked up.

We actually have very low violent crime rates compared to a lot of those same first world countries. You are twice as likely to get robbed or raped in England.

 

[xj0hnx]

Well, there's the fact that you've got a higher intentional homicide rate than most first world countries, and a higher gun-related crime rate as well.

Which funny enough never seem to be a reasons they start the push for bans, and regulations, those almost always coincide with more emotional singular events

I'm all for safe gun ownership, but the present state of affairs is not the way to go about it.

Problem is neither are any of the suggestions coming from the gun control crowd. IMO the first thing we need to do to start lessening the gun violence is end the War on Drugs™. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of gun violence, and violent crime in general is directly tied to the illegal drug game. Take the criminal element out of the drugs that millions of Americans partake in, and watch the violence plummet. But yet from the gun control crowd the first thing we hear is "ban high capacity magazines!!!", yea because high capacity magazines are fighting for control of corners to sling dope on.

 

[ivwshane]

Wow, such a brilliant response, did you think of that all by yourself?

Yeah, I took a cue from your posts.