Man shopping in JC Penny in Utah with AR 15 & holstered Glock.

[LumbergTech]

lol @ this thread. I can't figure out if some of you guys are just crazy or just talking big on an internet forum. For the sake of this country I hope it's the latter.

Carrying like that in this environment is obscene. And anyone who immediately wouldn't remove their family from that scene isn't thinking with their full capacities.

I would immediately leave the store and then I would let them know I was not returning until they banned shit like that from their store. If you want to make the mall a place where people carry these kinds of weapons, my family won't be patronizing them anymore.

 

[Gerle]

I don't know what your point is but my point was that people carry because they are scared. You essentially agree with me, thanks

I do none of the sort, no need to thank me.
Scared and prepared are two different things.

 

[irishScott]

I would immediately leave the store and then I would let them know I was not returning until they banned shit like that from their store. If you want to make the mall a place where people carry these kinds of weapons, my family won't be patronizing them anymore.

Which makes you judgmental, scared, and irrational. Congratulations. I suppose you'd be happier where no one but criminals carry such weapons in a mall.

 

[Zorkorist]

More people should do this.

I think I will wear a shotgun tomorrow.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

Thanks for the lulz, you are arguing against something that I'm not... and you say I'm not the bright one? You are either just trying to waste my time or are an idiot. Once again I've never said we don't take precautions to prevent crime. Once again you're quoting me and arguing about something that doesn't even apply to my comments. I will try this one more time just for you, we were talking about a very specific situation:

Dude was wondering how a security guard is supposed to tell the difference between a person open-carrying and a robber.

This is not about prevention, it's about identification. My point is if a security guard wants to determine who a robber might be he needs to observe behaviors that indicate someone is trying to rob the place. Like if you wanted to ID who a drunk driver might be, you should probably look for behaviors that indicate someone is driving drunk. You can't just assume someone with a gun on their hip is going to rob the place or a person drinking in a bar will drive drunk. I wouldn't expect a guard to accost a customer with a gun for being a robber just like I wouldn't expect someone to accost a customer at a bar for being a drunk driver.

As far as preventing robberies (or drunk driving), that's not an issue I have addressed. So stop bothering me with all your prevention garbage since I haven't even commented on that.

And my point which apparently was not made very clear, is that there can be laws that do more than just make acts illegal and they can be preventative too.

No one needs to carry a gun into a shopping mall or a school, or any number of places where danger is unlikely to happen and we shouldn't settle for a "kill people first and then react" circumstances just because a few people want to exercise their 2nd amendment because people are scared.

 

[Zorkorist]

Wow, you have no idea of what is going on, do you?

You hate guns, don't you?

You should go outside and play with a Teddy Bear, and a Marigold flower.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

Some do, some don't. Can't generalize, and even if we were all a bunch of insecure wannabes shitting our pants waiting for the imaginary terrorists to strike (so we could pull out our guns and be the big hero), what's it to you? So long as we're not hurting anyone, who cares?

Right now the numbers clearly show that concealed carry permit holders as a whole are not hurting anyone.

I don't care, I just wanted confirmation that the only reason to carry a gun is out of fear. I haven't heard one reason that says otherwise.

 

[ivwshane]

Which makes you judgmental, scared, and irrational. Congratulations. I suppose you'd be happier where no one but criminals carry such weapons in a mall.

Wouldn't that make it easier to spot the criminals?

 

[Zorkorist]

I don't care, I just wanted confirmation that the only reason to carry a gun is out of fear. I haven't heard one reason that says otherwise.

How about rebellion?

I carry a gun to rebel against the Government.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

How about rebellion?

I carry a gun to rebel against the Government.

-John

So you are scared of the government or are you a terrorist? or are you just a traitor?

 

[BigBarney]

I don't care, I just wanted confirmation that the only reason to carry a gun is out of fear. I haven't heard one reason that says otherwise.

let's go to another stupid argument.

Do you wear your seatbelt?

yes? why?

Do you was your hands?

yes? why?

Do you brush your teeth?

yes? why?

 

[ivwshane]

let's go to another stupid argument.

Do you wear your seatbelt?

yes? why?

Do you was your hands?

yes? why?

Do you brush your teeth?

yes? why?

I'll be happy to answer those, none of them are done out of fear though.

I wear a seat belt because I'm required by law and out of respect for my family who would rather I live if I were to be in an accident.

I wash my hands out of respect for the people I come in contact with or to keep other objects from getting dirty.

I brush my teeth out of respect for people I talk to and to keep my teeth healthy so that I may eat.


A common theme you will notice is the respect I have for others around me.

Now why do you carry a gun? If people find it intimidating or scary does that matter to you?

 

[BigBarney]

I'll be happy to answer those, none of them are done out of fear though.

I wear a seat belt because I'm required by law and out of respect for my family who would rather I live if I were to be in an accident.

I wash my hands out of respect for the people I come in contact with or to keep other objects from getting dirty.

I brush my teeth out of respect for people I talk to and to keep my teeth healthy so that I may eat.


A common theme you will notice is the respect I have for others around me.

Now why do you carry a gun? If people find it intimidating or scary does that matter to you?

So you fear that you may die if you crash and leave your family alone, and because it's a law

you fear that you may get other objects dirty

you fear that your teeth may fall out if you don't brush.

2 can play this game peasant.

'I carry a gun as I want to be able to assist others in a time of need if one should arise'

'I carry a gun out of respect for the lives of myself and those around me as I don't want to see death of the innocent'

 

[ivwshane]

So you fear that you may die if you crash and leave your family alone, and because it's a law

you fear that you may get other objects dirty

you fear that your teeth may fall out if you don't brush.

2 can play this game peasant.

'I carry a gun as I want to be able to assist others in a time of need if one should arise'

'I carry a gun out of respect for the lives of myself and those around me as I don't want to see death of the innocent'

No fear at all.

I'm a law abiding citizen because I respect my fellow countrymen and the laws, we as a collective have set up.

If things get dirty I have to wash them, it's far more efficient than getting them dirty and then having to wash objects.

No fear of my teeth falling out, I can get dentures but that's another expense I don't need.

Ah, a wannabe cop? How many people have you saved to date?


I'm a peasant? are you implying you are better than me? Your small penis is showing

 

[xj0hnx]

I don't care, I just wanted confirmation that the only reason to carry a gun is out of fear. I haven't heard one reason that says otherwise.

Ahh the old "people that carry a gun live in fear" bullshit. Simply put ...no, and that's a stupid assumption. Do you wear a seatbelt out of fear? Do you lock your doors at night out of fear? Claiming the only reason to carry a gun is because of fear is just plain fucking stupid. Someone can be prepared, and take precautions, and not be in fear.

You want fear? Here is fear ...

I would immediately leave the store and then I would let them know I was not returning until they banned shit like that from their store. If you want to make the mall a place where people carry these kinds of weapons, my family won't be patronizing them anymore.

Fear of an inanimate object.

 

[ivwshane]

Ahh the old "people that carry a gun live in fear" bullshit. Simply put ...no, and that's a stupid assumption. Do you wear a seatbelt out of fear? Do you lock your doors at night out of fear? Claiming the only reason to carry a gun is because of fear is just plain fucking stupid. Someone can be prepared, and take precautions, and not be in fear.

You want fear? Here is fear ...



Fear of an inanimate object.

So the guy that fears for his familes safety because a guy is in a store with a gun is real fear as opposed to the guy that fears an unlikely scenario?

Are you trying to make my point?

 

[irishScott]

Wouldn't that make it easier to spot the criminals?

Given that any criminal with an IQ above 70 is going to conceal his weapon until he's ready to use it, not really.

 

[irishScott]

So the guy that fears for his familes safety because a guy is in a store with a gun is real fear as opposed to the guy that fears an unlikely scenario?

Are you trying to make my point?

Alright, why does carrying a gun make the carrier fearful? I want to hear the pseudo-logic you've adopted, and then I can explain the emotional difference between "preparation" and "fear".

If you see someone with a gun, and the gun is slung/holstered, the odds are very much in your favor that it's not going to hurt you. That makes fear of such acts irrational.

 

[ivwshane]

Alright, why does carrying a gun make the carrier fearful? I want to hear the pseudo-logic you've adopted, and then I can explain the emotional difference between "preparation" and "fear".

If you see someone with a gun, and the gun is slung/holstered, the odds are very much in your favor that it's not going to hurt you. That makes fear of such acts irrational.

What you or I fear doesn't matter, what matters is how other people react.

I stated that people carry a gun out of fear only because I couldn't think of any other reasonable reason to carry a gun and I haven't heard anything other than wanting to be a hero.

For some reason simply stating this puts gun holders into a frenzy. It's akin to those that are against gay marriage because they are homophobic.

There is nothing wrong with either of the above but lets at least be honest about it. You guys seem to have no problem pointing out others fears and ridiculing them and yet you want them to respect your views but you don't want to respect theirs.

 

[xj0hnx]

So the guy that fears for his familes safety because a guy is in a store with a gun is real fear as opposed to the guy that fears an unlikely scenario?

Yes, however, you say unlikely scenario, yet use statistics of all this supposed violent crime, and then try to berate someone that prepares for that violent crime? Can you not see why we think you are all completely full of shit?

 

[irishScott]

What you or I fear doesn't matter, what matters is how other people react.

I stated that people carry a gun out of fear only because I couldn't think of any other reasonable reason to carry a gun and I haven't heard anything other than wanting to be a hero.

For some reason simply stating this puts gun holders into a frenzy. It's akin to those that are against gay marriage because they are homophobic.

There is nothing wrong with either of the above but lets at least be honest about it. You guys seem to have no problem pointing out others fears and ridiculing them and yet you want them to respect your views but you don't want to respect theirs.

The reasonable reason to carry a gun is the same reason you wear a seat-belt. Do you buckle up out of fear? Are you constantly afraid of a car wreck as you drive? Of course not (at least I hope not). Having driven for 10 years in some of the worst traffic in the nation I've had exactly zero accidents. Odds are I could unbuckle and be perfectly fine, but I buckle-up anyway.

The same mentality applies to carrying a gun. I carry, I train. I'm prepared. Once that gun goes into my pocket I can forget about it until it's needed (or until I encounter some local legalities). There's no constant state of fear, no worry about being mugged, none. I'm prepared in the event that I find myself in a mugging or robbery, but I'm not "afraid" of either of said events.

Likewise a gun is not required to sooth any "fear", because said fear is, for me and many others, nonexistent. I can't legally carry my gun if I go out drinking, so guess what? I leave the gun home and go out drinking, at arguably the time of week when the most crime happens, and I have fun like anyone else. My lack of gun doesn't even cross my mind.

I'm sorry if that differs with your perception of the world, but that's the reality.



Now as for mutual respect, I haven't met a gun owner yet who will disrespect someone for not owning a gun. I know I don't judge someone for not owning a gun, nor do I question their decision (if they ever made one). On the flip side, it's quite common for a gun owner, let alone a gun carrier, to encounter "you own THAT? Why do you need one of those? Why do you need to carry one of those? What are you afraid of? What's wrong with you?" and then having to defend him/herself.

When gun owners "make fun" of non-gun owners' fear, we're usually making fun of their fear more than the actual person. In our view, if they simply educated themselves via a few google searches, a lot of their fears would be allayed. When non gun-owners make fun of a gun owner, they're typically making a direct stab at the gun owner's character and seriously insulting him/her as a person.

Gun owner makes fun of non-gun owner: "You're ignorant."
Non-gun owner makes fun of gun owners: "You're a bad person, there's something wrong with you." Implied: "You should be stopped."


Of the two, the latter is far more judgmental and insulting, and you wonder why it gets the reaction it does?

 

[xj0hnx]

What you or I fear doesn't matter, what matters is how other people react.

It does matter if it is out of irrational fear and ignorance.

I stated that people carry a gun out of fear only because I couldn't think of any other reasonable reason to carry a gun and I haven't heard anything other than wanting to be a hero.

Yes, you have heard other reasons, you just don't want to acknowledge them because then you wouldn't be able to sit as high atop your condescending high horse.

For some reason simply stating this puts gun holders into a frenzy. It's akin to those that are against gay marriage because they are homophobic.

No one's in a "frenzy", just trying to help you see the illogical irrationality of your way of thinking.

There is nothing wrong with either of the above but lets at least be honest about it. You guys seem to have no problem pointing out others fears and ridiculing them and yet you want them to respect your views but you don't want to respect theirs.

You've got that completely backwards. You're the ones that are doing the ridiculing. We don't care what your fear is until you go projecting it onto us, and then try to push your anti-gun nut-job agenda on us.

 

[ivwshane]

It does matter if it is out of irrational fear and ignorance.



Yes, you have heard other reasons, you just don't want to acknowledge them because then you wouldn't be able to sit as high atop your condescending high horse.



No one's in a "frenzy", just trying to help you see the illogical irrationality of your way of thinking.



You've got that completely backwards. You're the ones that are doing the ridiculing. We don't care what your fear is until you go projecting it onto us, and then try to push your anti-gun nut-job agenda on us.

Show me where I said anything anti gun. You can't because I didn't and yet here you are. In fact I don't recall anyone in this thread pushing any anti gun agenda.


You think people being afraid of other people carrying guns is irrational and I think carrying a gun is irrational. I have statistics on my side for wearing a seat belt what facts do you have to rationalize carrying a gun? I showed how more likely you are to be in a traffic accident than to be assaulted you guys have yet to show me any rational reasons why you carry a gun.

I'm not looking for feelings or opinions just facts.

 

[poohbear]

The reasonable reason to carry a gun is the same reason you wear a seat-belt. Do you buckle up out of fear? Are you constantly afraid of a car wreck as you drive? Of course not (at least I hope not). Having driven for 10 years in some of the worst traffic in the nation I've had exactly zero accidents. Odds are I could unbuckle and be perfectly fine, but I buckle-up anyway.

The same mentality applies to carrying a gun. I carry, I train. I'm prepared. Once that gun goes into my pocket I can forget about it until it's needed (or until I encounter some local legalities). There's no constant state of fear, no worry about being mugged, none. I'm prepared in the event that I find myself in a mugging or robbery, but I'm not "afraid" of either of said events.

I dont get it about not being scared of being mugged. If a guy pulls a gun on u, u can't just reach for it or he'll kill u, so seems kinda pointless. Once he takes the money & turns his back on u, can u legally pull it out & shoot him? If he doesnt have the gun pointed at u and u shoot him, are u aquitted of that? I can't imagine u would cause u just shot a man in the back! Correct me if i'm wrong, not sure how american laws work in that regard.

 

[irishScott]

Show me where I said anything anti gun. You can't because I didn't and yet here you are. In fact I don't recall anyone in this thread pushing any anti gun agenda.


You think people being afraid of other people carrying guns is irrational and I think carrying a gun is irrational. I have statistics on my side for wearing a seat belt what facts do you have to rationalize carrying a gun? I showed how more likely you are to be in a traffic accident than to be assaulted you guys have yet to show me any rational reasons why you carry a gun.

I'm not looking for feelings or opinions just facts.

So far I've narrowly avoided assault 3 or 4 times in my life, and know others who haven't been as lucky. In the off chance that there's a fifth time, I want a gun as an option.

Those are my facts, I can't speak for anyone else; but I know many people have similar reasoning.

At the end of a day it's a personal choice, based on personal reasons. I'm sure some people carry out of fear/paranoia, but you can't generalize. Nor can whatever statistics you drum up logically nullify an individual's personal experience.