Man did nvidia cheap out on the reference gtx670

[ShintaiDK]

Everybody dies too. It's premature death that is disturbing. These GPU's are only a few months old. It's too soon for typical degradation to have caused this.

Well there is a few other possible reasons. Driver and game optimization.

Unlike CPUs, GPUs for gaming aint designed for true 100% loads. Both HD7970, GTX680 would crap itself if it had to. Thats also why you for example see Tesla cards with lowers specs and higher or same TDP.

GPU drivers on purpose limits performance into the right TDP and load. Good example is Furmark.

Summer is also over us. And higher temperatures increase resistance in silicon too.

Some people got same issues with HD7970s as well. But we do know AMD made alot of driver imporvements in terms of speed.

 

[3DVagabond]

Well there is a few other possible reasons. Driver and game optimization.

Unlike CPUs, GPUs for gaming aint designed for true 100% loads. Both HD7970, GTX680 would crap itself if it had to. Thats also why you for example see Tesla cards with lowers specs and higher or same TDP.

GPU drivers on purpose limits performance into the right TDP and load. Good example is Furmark.

Summer is also over us. And higher temperatures increase resistance in silicon too.

Some people got same issues with HD7970s as well. But we do know AMD made alot of driver imporvements in terms of speed.

About the only thing I'll give you in this is that it's summer now. Sorry, but the rest is you making claims with nothing to back it up.

I've never heard that GPU's aren't designed to run @ 100% load before this post.

The reason for Tesla cards having higher TDP is, unlike consumer cards, their specs have to be accurate.

What people are having the same issues with 7970's? As far as I know no 7970 has had the same issues as the 670. The EVGA auto exchange program and the Asus BIOS update, for example.

Now, I'm not saying that these people posting their O/C's are degrading are definitely an issue with the 670. It could be, as you say, it's summer and the ambient temps are higher, that's common sense. I'm just not buying the rest of it.

 

[Lonbjerg]

The reason for Tesla cards having higher TDP is, unlike consumer cards, their specs have to be accurate.

[citation needed]

 

[f1sherman]

So...

Few ppl crash in their favorite benchmark, and it's undoubtedly Kepler degradation?
Not just a theory - but a fact?

Nothing to do with... summer, heat, dust, not having stable system to begin with...
these kind of thingies?

Sucks if true. Sorry to hear that.

Looks like Nvidia knew what they were saying, when they insisted on OV/OC limits.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Hmm.. scores are still the same from day 1. I guess I haven't been using my overclocked settings but the boost clocks have been the same (minus 13MHz due to temps going over 70C by 1~2C now as Ive reduced the case fans to 5V from 7V).

 

[cmdrdredd]

Reasonable overclocks? It's not like you can play with the voltage all you want. Even with Nvidia's ridiculous lockdown on these cards, they're still degrading. I don't see why that'd be a Nvidia specific problem though.

Out of hundreds of sales maybe thousands all the sudden 2 or 3 reports means end of the world??

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't see anyone causing mass hysteria or claiming the end of the world type fear mongering. I think some of us are a bit surprised to see cards are not able to hit speeds they were before. It could be a number of things, but with how strict Nvidia appears to be when it comes to over-volting and clock speeds, some past issues with cards and GPU's, not to mention an earlier report regarding premature degradation, premature degradation will be tossed into the list of possibilities and discussed. Not that big of a deal to discuss it as a possibility.

 

[SirPauly]

That is why there is AIB differentiation; if someone doesn't like the reference designs from AMD or nVidia, well, there is more choice to consider.

 

[imported_someonesomewhere]

Nvidia always has crappy reference designs. Reference in general is usually a bad idea, unless you're water cooling and can't avoid it.

The 580 reference uses a vapor chamber. As far as I know, that's superior to what AMD was offering.

However, the 680 doesn't have it, because Nvidia decided to skimp on cooling for this initial 28nm generation.

People are so impressed by the die shrinkage (40nm down to 28nm, skipping 32nm node) that they're willing to ignore the obvious shortcomings of midrange cards with lackluster cooling being passed off as high-end. At least, that's what Nvidia is betting.

Small die + cheap cooling + high prices (from no competition from actual high-end chips) = profit

AMD has been about saving money with smaller dies and mediocre cooling for some time now. I don't think AMD uses a vapor chamber in any of their designs, although I may be wrong. I haven't followed their latest stuff especially closely.

I do have to say that offering the 670 without even a single heat pipe is insulting to customers. Even the 460 768 has dramatically better cooling.

 

[Lonbjerg]

The 580 reference uses a vapor chamber. As far as I know, that's superior to what AMD was offering.

However, the 680 doesn't have it, because Nvidia decided to skimp on cooling for this initial 28nm generation.

People are so impressed by the die shrinkage (40nm down to 28nm, skipping 32nm node) that they're willing to ignore the obvious shortcomings of midrange cards with lackluster cooling being passed off as high-end. At least, that's what Nvidia is betting.

Small die + cheap cooling + high prices (from no competition from actual high-end chips) = profit

AMD has been about saving money with smaller dies and mediocre cooling for some time now. I don't think AMD uses a vapor chamber in any of their designs, although I may be wrong. I haven't followed their latest stuff especially closely.

I do have to say that offering the 670 without even a single heat pipe is insulting to customers. Even the 460 768 has dramatically better cooling.

Did you just say that 2 different GPU architectures on 2 different processes have the excact same cooling requirements?

 

[Arkadrel]

The 580 reference uses a vapor chamber. As far as I know, that's superior to what AMD was offering.

The Vapor Chamber first used on a GPU was by Saphire, that make AMD cards.
They took the "idea" from people in the "Aerospace Industry" and made it work on GPUs.

Saphire had a Vapor-X cooler in 2007, back with the HD 3870 cards.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/VaporX/VaporX_paper.html


also your wrong (this is about the 7970 referance cooler, quote from TPU):

The cooler uses a full-coverage vapor-chamber plate to collect heat from all major components on the obverse side of the card, and convey it to the aluminum fin channel array attached to it.

AMD uses vapor chamber cooling solutions too.
Nvidia just made it a "big thing" and people "listen" better whenever nvidia does things.



from Anandtech:

Moving on, when we remove the shroud on the GTX 680 we see the fan, baseplate, and heatsink in full detail. NVIDIA is using an aluminum fin stacked heatsink, very similar to what we saw on the GTX 580. Underneath the heatsink NVIDIA is using a set of three heatpipes to transfer heat between the GPU and the heatsink. This is as opposed to the vapor chamber on the GTX 580, and while this setup doesn’t allow empirical testing, given the high efficiency of vapor chambers it’s likely that this isn’t quite as efficient, though to what degree we couldn’t say.

Your right the 680 cooler doesnt have a vapor chamber...... weird.... going backwards, maybe its cheaper to use heatpipes?

Small die + cheap cooling + high prices (from no competition from actual high-end chips) = profit

Most bussinesses think like this, but yeah, nvidia's refernce designs are usually made with cheaper components, than the AMD counterparts. Which is why their stuff lasts longer ,and you dont have to bake your card in the oven ect.

AMD has been about saving money with smaller dies and mediocre cooling for some time now. I don't think AMD uses a vapor chamber in any of their designs, although I may be wrong. I haven't followed their latest stuff especially closely.

7xxx has it, 6xxx has it, and "Saphire" cards since the HD 3870's have had this cooling technology.

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