Man calls 911, then shoots burglars while on the phone with 911

[daveymark]

Text

burglars got what they deserved.

that said, it wasn't his house so it raises questions


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we have an existing thread on this subject now /w respect to the acquittal and responses are being split between them.

I am locking this thread to ensure that all posts a consolidated within one area to all can review.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[techgamer]

I dont know if I would have killed the burglars, but shooting them in the legs would have been good. idk, think he will do jail time?

 

[jonks]

Lock him up. He went vigilante. Clearly no danger to him here.

 

[Jaskalas]

IMO, the criminal in the commission of a crime only has 1 right ? surrender.

I don?t know if he offered them that choice, if they were armed with guns, or if he decided this was a fine opportunity to kill criminals. Without the facts I cannot pass final judgment, but I have laid out my feelings.

 

[Genx87]

While I really dont have a problem with 2 dead scumbags. The law I am sure doesnt approve of somebody not in direct danger going out and shooting two people to death.

If this was his home he is 100% justified. But this was a neighbor's home. I think he may be looking at excessive force at the very least, murder in some degree at the worst.

 

[FallenHero]

that is iffy...from what he is saying on the phone, it sounds almost like premeditation...if the DA/SA wants to go that way. Personally, I think what he did was right to an extent, but thats just from a moral standpoint. Legally, I'm not sure how right he is (I'm not too familiar with the newly passed laws regarding household protection)

 

[Jaskalas]

Oh, certainly the letter of the law will put this guy away. Probably for life.

 

[daveymark]

Assuming this guy gets charged with something, and not knowing the specifics yet, would an acceptable defense be that since he said "Move, you're dead", if the burglars moved, he thought his life might be in danger so he shot them? perhaps when they "moved" he thought the burglar was reaching for a weapon

 

[fskimospy]

Yes he'll probably go to jail and rightfully so. He just murdered two people in cold blood over a few stolen things while they were leaving. The law he was talking about in the article only pertains to your own home if I'm not mistaken... you can't just go up and down the street shooting everyone who you see breaking into a house. That would be completely insane.

 

[dahunan]

Why should someone in the commission of a crime have the right to shoot first?

 

[fskimospy]

It has nothing to do with shooting first, it has to do with a threat to your person and proportional response. We don't know all the details but from what the article said he went out of his way to confront these people and shot them for stealing something from his neighbor. That is not proportional in any sense of the word.

 

[daveymark]

it's a little confusing, article mentions neighbor's house being robbed, then says "Horn tells police he sees the burglars coming out of his house."

so is it the neighbors or the caller's house?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
you can't just go up and down the street shooting everyone who you see breaking into a house. That would be completely insane.

We have a different opinion of criminals. I'd hang them, you probably want them back on the street after rehabilitation.

Once again, let me say, I oppose what he did if he set out to kill. Yet I would side with him, in a grey area subject to the specific details, if he confronted them and they turned the situation worse.

I would perhaps, lend him enough benefit of the doubt as I would a police officer.

 

[maddogchen]

He reported the burglary to the police, no one appeared to be in harms way, it wasn't his house. police were on their way. He had done his duty.

But no...he goes outside and shoots them when they were trying to get away. I hope it goes to court cuz it does raise issues here, i think he was excessive.

 

[daveymark]

Texas law:

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property



looks like everybody's a winner in this situation

 

[jonks]

"He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house...

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

So much for self-defense. Regular or extra crispy?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Lock him up. He went vigilante. Clearly no danger to him here.

That's dumb, I'm sorry. He was helping his neighbors, I would have done the same thing.

We're not islands, we're a community. What is the point of standing idly by as someones house is getting ransacked, or while someone is being assaulted...?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: daveymark

that said, it wasn't his house so it raises questions

I don't think there's any question about it, he's got big problems.

Calling 911 was the right thing to do.

Then he should have gotten the license plate number from their car or whatever. That would be a good place to stop right there.

For his sake, I hope the burglers were armed.

Fern

 

[zig3695]

i cant believe some of you guys. these shitheads were BREAKING INTO A HOME which could easily have been occupied. I'd do exactly the same thing, kill them both cold. fuck them, thats exactly what they deserve. that's two less people that will regularly rob, cheat and steal their way through life. That guy is a true hero, he could have just as easily been shot by the burglars if they had weapons too. thank god they didnt, and bless that man's soul for goin all boondock saints on their thieving asses.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Texas law:

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property



looks like everybody's a winner in this situation

Ah, Texas. Thought it was Pasadena, Cali. I shift my position. He's gonna get a parade.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: zig3695
i cant believe some of you guys. these shitheads were BREAKING INTO A HOME which could easily have been occupied. I'd do exactly the same thing, kill them both cold. fuck them, thats exactly what they deserve. that's two less people that will regularly rob, cheat and steal their way through life. That guy is a true hero, he could have just as easily been shot by the burglars if they had weapons too. thank god they didnt, and bless that man's soul for goin all boondock saints on their thieving asses.

So in your wise, mature opinion, if a person is arrested for theft, we should execute them correct? Scumbaggery is a capital offense I believe.

 

[StageLeft]

There is nothing iffy about this. He's almost certain to spend time in jail, which is consistent with laws and basic intelligence.

You don't call 911, have the dispatcher urge you not to go shoot them, then go out and shoot two guys who are clearly not going to harm you. I know that you can defend your own property, in some areas, and don't have to retreat, so I suppose the law could in theory be applied to another innocent's property, in the same way I can defend myself or defend a total stranger with deadly force, so in fact now that I think about it, although I think he probably will get in big trouble over this, I can see how the law almost should have allowed it (assuming one agrees with the idea that defending property with deadly force, though one is not in danger, is right).

He may not have set out to kill. He may have wanted them to stay put and not get away, which is understandable.

9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

So then, the law does extend, like self-defense, to a third party. He may get off afterall.

 

[StageLeft]

You know, unless he did intend to kill them, which I doubt he did, for if that was the intent he'd not have called 911 in the first place (he wanted them arrested), he did nothing a cop wouldn't have done, did he? Except since he's not a cop maybe he shot sooner than he should have or didn't command the respect a cop would have (so they'd not have run).

 

[chucky2]

It is a sad sad F'ing day for America when we're going to discipline a citizen for standing up to criminals stealing property.

Was it excessive? Probably.

Did the criminals bring it on themselves by breaking into a house not theirs and stealing property not theirs? Absolutely.

Don't F'ing break the law, and then you won't have to worry about this sh1t.

And this just goes to show how absolutely important gun ownership rights are to average citizens...where were the police when these criminals were in the neighbors house? Not there protecting whoever could have been inside from them.

It is absolutely unreal this guy would get anymore than a stern talking to from the sheriff in the town on leaving things up to them next time, end of story.

Chuck

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: zig3695
i cant believe some of you guys. these shitheads were BREAKING INTO A HOME which could easily have been occupied. I'd do exactly the same thing, kill them both cold. fuck them, thats exactly what they deserve. that's two less people that will regularly rob, cheat and steal their way through life. That guy is a true hero, he could have just as easily been shot by the burglars if they had weapons too. thank god they didnt, and bless that man's soul for goin all boondock saints on their thieving asses.

You people must live in some sort of bizarre Mad Max style world that I am unfamiliar with. The people were leaving a house and there was no evidence of any violence that I am aware of. Killing people over a TV or jewelry is psychopathic... all it does is show how afraid everyone is.

Also daveymark if you read the surrounding statutes, particularly 9.41 and 9.42 it's not quite as cut and dry. The laws seem to reference the property being taken by force or threat, and an expectation that there is no other way to get the property back. (ie.. like say from the cops). I don't know how this would fall, but I don't think he's off the hook exactly.

Anyway, from reading other parts of the criminal code... holy crap Texas is insane. That's reason #3,298,920 not to live there.