Man calls 911, then shoots burglars while on the phone with 911

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
You know, unless he did intend to kill them, which I doubt he did, for if that was the intent he'd not have called 911 in the first place (he wanted them arrested), he did nothing a cop wouldn't have done, did he? Except since he's not a cop maybe he shot sooner than he should have or didn't command the respect a cop would have (so they'd not have run).

We don't know from the article, but it seems like it would have been mentioned if it did...assuming the burglers did not threaten him a police officer would have probably lost his job for shooting them, and would also very likely face criminal charges. Of course cops have other tools for apprehending people other then their guns, but the point still stands.

Again though this is the heart of hee-haw, so maybe not.

 

[teclis1023]

"We have a different opinion of criminals. I'd hang them, you probably want them back on the street after rehabilitation. " (Jaskalas)

You'd hang...every criminal? Or just some? I'm confused about your statement.

Rehabilitation works. Jail doesn't. I'm not sure whose idea it was to lock a bunch of violent criminals together and then release them back into public after a few years, but obviously they didn't study psychology...or they had never met people before.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: zig3695
i cant believe some of you guys. these shitheads were BREAKING INTO A HOME which could easily have been occupied. I'd do exactly the same thing, kill them both cold. fuck them, thats exactly what they deserve. that's two less people that will regularly rob, cheat and steal their way through life. That guy is a true hero, he could have just as easily been shot by the burglars if they had weapons too. thank god they didnt, and bless that man's soul for goin all boondock saints on their thieving asses.

You people must live in some sort of bizarre Mad Max style world that I am unfamiliar with. The people were leaving a house and there was no evidence of any violence that I am aware of. Killing people over a TV or jewelry is psychopathic... all it does is show how afraid everyone is.

Also daveymark if you read the surrounding statutes, particularly 9.41 and 9.42 it's not quite as cut and dry. The laws seem to reference the property being taken by force or threat, and an expectation that there is no other way to get the property back. (ie.. like say from the cops). I don't know how this would fall, but I don't think he's off the hook exactly.

Anyway, from reading other parts of the criminal code... holy crap Texas is insane. That's reason #3,298,920 not to live there.

Yeah, every few months theres another thread about TX self-defense/deadly force laws and I get re-reminded how insane it is. Imagine you sneak into a friend's house to play a joke, he's not home, you leave and the neighbor blows your head off b/c he "reasonably" thought you were a burglar. When property becomes more important than ANY HUMAN life (even a criminal), the "culture of life' crowd really needs to get rid of the misnomer they use for a title.

 

[Lemon law]

This is not Texas law, its California law. But not enough date in the link to decide. In general, one can use deadly force to protect your life but not property.

But against the advise of a 911 dispatcher, the man attempted to make what amounts to a citizens arrest. If the burglars then made a legitimate effort to assault the man with a shotgun or had a weapon they brandished, in most cases the homeowner would be legally justified in using deadly force. But if the burglars instead ignored the man with a shot gun and ran away while making no legitimate threat to the man with a shotgun, it can be prosecuted as murder.

And there is something very wrong if they can't come with a policeman on scene in seven minutes. This is a populated area that is supposed to be policed. Not some rural area where the population is spread thinly and thinly spread police make distance a factor. Now did the 911 dispatcher do their job properly in immediately getting the police dispatched?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house...

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

So much for self-defense. Regular or extra crispy?

OK.. If I see you getting beat down by robbers who only wanted your property.... I will just walk away since I would not be defending myself.. right?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: zig3695
i cant believe some of you guys. these shitheads were BREAKING INTO A HOME which could easily have been occupied. I'd do exactly the same thing, kill them both cold. fuck them, thats exactly what they deserve. that's two less people that will regularly rob, cheat and steal their way through life. That guy is a true hero, he could have just as easily been shot by the burglars if they had weapons too. thank god they didnt, and bless that man's soul for goin all boondock saints on their thieving asses.

So in your wise, mature opinion, if a person is arrested for theft, we should execute them correct? Scumbaggery is a capital offense I believe.

Were they in the middle of being arrested

Were they on hard drugs and willing to murder someone if they tried to arrest them?

You know they were in the middle of committing ONE crime.. I guess you can tell the future and predict that they are just harmless little burglars who weren't carrying guns or knives to use to kill anyone that might try to stop them?

Anyone who commits any premeditated crime should know they might get killed in the process.. don't commit premeditated crimes.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house...

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

So much for self-defense. Regular or extra crispy?

OK.. If I see you getting beat down by robbers who only wanted your property.... I will just walk away since I would not be defending myself.. right?

Way to change the facts. This is not defense of a third person. This is defense of a third person's property. No one was getting beat down. They were fleeing with property. If TX allows you to shoot people over fleeing with chattel that's all fine, but don't preach to me about the sanctity of life.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
"We have a different opinion of criminals. I'd hang them, you probably want them back on the street after rehabilitation. " (Jaskalas)

You'd hang...every criminal? Or just some? I'm confused about your statement.

Rehabilitation works. Jail doesn't. I'm not sure whose idea it was to lock a bunch of violent criminals together and then release them back into public after a few years, but obviously they didn't study psychology...or they had never met people before.

I think he is nuts for spouting some BS like that

Humans deserve a second chance after incarceration..

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: techgamer
I dont know if I would have killed the burglars, but shooting them in the legs would have been good. idk, think he will do jail time?

You don't shoot to wound. You shoot to kill. Guns are for deadly force.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house...

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

So much for self-defense. Regular or extra crispy?

OK.. If I see you getting beat down by robbers who only wanted your property.... I will just walk away since I would not be defending myself.. right?

Way to change the facts. This is not defense of a third person. This is defense of a third person's property. No one was getting beat down. They were fleeing with property. If TX allows you to shoot people over fleeing with chattel that's all fine, but don't preach to me about the sanctity of life.

Huh? Like I said.. Criminals commonly will hurt people who try to apprehend them.. ever watch those "Amazing Car Chases" .. well.. these guys could have easily had a

Gun
Getaway car with nothing to lose ... willing to run over your children or family to escape apprehension..

Just don't be committing premeditated crimes

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Texas law:

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property



looks like everybody's a winner in this situation

it depends if the burglars went into his yard or not. they need to do some csi stuff to figure out whether the burglars went into the man's hard or not.

but, let's be honest... the guy's not gonna go to jail. the burglars were black and they're in texas. whether he was wrong or right in what he did, he probably wouldn't go to jail for it.

on a personal note, i don't think what he did was right, but i don't think it was entirely wrong, either. a man should have a right to protect his neighborhood. he shoulda used a handgun or rifle... or at least some bird shot or something.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house...

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

So much for self-defense. Regular or extra crispy?

OK.. If I see you getting beat down by robbers who only wanted your property.... I will just walk away since I would not be defending myself.. right?

No of course not. They are assaulting someone in your example. The law is very clear that you can use force to stop someone from being hurt or killed.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: techgamer
I dont know if I would have killed the burglars, but shooting them in the legs would have been good. idk, think he will do jail time?

You don't shoot to wound. You shoot to kill. Guns are for deadly force.

Exactly.. shooting them in the leg does not stop them from grabbing the gun they are hiding and shooting you or your family in the head

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
"We have a different opinion of criminals. I'd hang them, you probably want them back on the street after rehabilitation. " (Jaskalas)

You'd hang...every criminal? Or just some? I'm confused about your statement.

Rehabilitation works. Jail doesn't. I'm not sure whose idea it was to lock a bunch of violent criminals together and then release them back into public after a few years, but obviously they didn't study psychology...or they had never met people before.

Mostly pertaining to violent crimes in which the circumstances are clear and not grey. Home invasion robbery is certainly a candidate though.

You?re right, jail isn?t working. I have a solution, you have a solution.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house...

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

So much for self-defense. Regular or extra crispy?

OK.. If I see you getting beat down by robbers who only wanted your property.... I will just walk away since I would not be defending myself.. right?

No of course not. They are assaulting someone in your example. The law is very clear that you can use force to stop someone from being hurt or killed.

Were these criminals going to stop if the neighbor yelled at them to stop or if the cops told them to freeze.. would they have pulled a gun on the neighbor if given the chance

How do we not know they didn't already kill the homewoner

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Were these criminals going to stop if the neighbor yelled at them to stop or if the cops told them to freeze.. would they have pulled a gun on the neighbor if given the chance

How do we not know they didn't already kill the homewoner

You have to have a reasonable reason to believe that they had killed the homeowner. There is no evidence that he had such. You have to have a reasonable cause to believe that they posed an imminent threat to you or someone else. There is no evidence of that either. The law works around evidence FOR something, not lack of evidence AGAINST something.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

...snip...

And there is something very wrong if they can't come with a policeman on scene in seven minutes. This is a populated area that is supposed to be policed. Not some rural area where the population is spread thinly and thinly spread police make distance a factor. Now did the 911 dispatcher do their job properly in immediately getting the police dispatched?

Welcome to the real world where bad things happen and the criminals get away because the police are spread few are far between, and their "Leadership" has them writing traffic tickets because they want the easy money.

This is why most normal Americans outside of the rabid liberal zones absolutely shake their heads and laugh at gun laws preventing law abiding Americans from the right to bear arms. Because for sure, at some point, these criminals would break into a house with people inside it, and - like usual - the police wouldn't be there. Better to have at least a fighting chance of protecting you and yours rather than just get F'd (sometimes literally) because someone with a gun paranoia wanted you to depend on the police. Depend on the police...I actually just laughed...that's little better than depending on the UN...

Chuck

 

[Lemon law]

In general the honest and dishonest may learn something from this case if its widely publicized. But this is always a rare occupational hazard downside to the burglary business.

Its always in the back of their mind and quite rightfully so. Sometimes career criminals meet a justice system they can't exploit as easily and the revolving door finally quits revolving for them. Long odds, they had a rap sheet as long as your arm. And if caught by the cops, would have been only slightly punished as they plea bargained it down to a basic nothing.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Welcome to the real world where bad things happen and the criminals get away because the police are spread few are far between, and their "Leadership" has them writing traffic tickets because they want the easy money.

This is why most normal Americans outside of the rabid liberal zones absolutely shake their heads and laugh at gun laws preventing law abiding Americans from the right to bear arms. Because for sure, at some point, these criminals would break into a house with people inside it, and - like usual - the police wouldn't be there. Better to have at least a fighting chance of protecting you and yours rather than just get F'd (sometimes literally) because someone with a gun paranoia wanted you to depend on the police. Depend on the police...I actually just laughed...that's little better than depending on the UN...

Chuck

What was that about gun control?

Of course they don't say exactly what laws they would tighten, etc but an awful lot of people apparently think gun control laws should be even stricter then they are now. I guess 60% of the country or so is "rabidly liberal".

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: dahunan

Were these criminals going to stop if the neighbor yelled at them to stop or if the cops told them to freeze.. would they have pulled a gun on the neighbor if given the chance

How do we not know they didn't already kill the homewoner

You have to have a reasonable reason to believe that they had killed the homeowner. There is no evidence that he had such. You have to have a reasonable cause to believe that they posed an imminent threat to you or someone else. There is no evidence of that either. The law works around evidence FOR something, not lack of evidence AGAINST something.

I still feel that anyone willing to enter a residential dwelling is willing to kill or seriously maim anyone who tries to apprehend or stop them.. personally that is evidence enough for me.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: chucky2
Welcome to the real world where bad things happen and the criminals get away because the police are spread few are far between, and their "Leadership" has them writing traffic tickets because they want the easy money.

This is why most normal Americans outside of the rabid liberal zones absolutely shake their heads and laugh at gun laws preventing law abiding Americans from the right to bear arms. Because for sure, at some point, these criminals would break into a house with people inside it, and - like usual - the police wouldn't be there. Better to have at least a fighting chance of protecting you and yours rather than just get F'd (sometimes literally) because someone with a gun paranoia wanted you to depend on the police. Depend on the police...I actually just laughed...that's little better than depending on the UN...

Chuck

What was that about gun control?

Of course they don't say exactly what laws they would tighten, etc but an awful lot of people apparently think gun control laws should be even stricter then they are now. I guess 60% of the country or so is "rabidly liberal".

Only curious.. in those countries that outlaw guns and have a lower violent crime/murder rate.. How long have they outlawed guns.. did they ever allow them or have such a law written into their constitution?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: chucky2
Welcome to the real world where bad things happen and the criminals get away because the police are spread few are far between, and their "Leadership" has them writing traffic tickets because they want the easy money.

This is why most normal Americans outside of the rabid liberal zones absolutely shake their heads and laugh at gun laws preventing law abiding Americans from the right to bear arms. Because for sure, at some point, these criminals would break into a house with people inside it, and - like usual - the police wouldn't be there. Better to have at least a fighting chance of protecting you and yours rather than just get F'd (sometimes literally) because someone with a gun paranoia wanted you to depend on the police. Depend on the police...I actually just laughed...that's little better than depending on the UN...

Chuck

What was that about gun control?

Of course they don't say exactly what laws they would tighten, etc but an awful lot of people apparently think gun control laws should be even stricter then they are now. I guess 60% of the country or so is "rabidly liberal".

Bail out now, I've seen this thread before, I know where it goes.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Lock him up. He went vigilante. Clearly no danger to him here.

:roll:
where do you clowns get this crap? he doesn't have to be in danger to shoot.

 

[Moonbeam]

He called the cops so we know what his intentions were, but when the looked to be getting away he shot them, right. Tough luck for the burglars, in my opinion. Why should his neighbor's house be any different than his own. Us liberals are our brothers keepers.

In Saudi Arabia they cut your hand off if you steal. It's pretty barbaric, except for the fact, there's hardly ever any theft. If we have lots and lots of burglars dying at the scene I bet the crime rate drops.

 

[Number1]

Would a cop get away with this?

I mean, is it standard operating procedure in CALIFORNIA for cops to shoot unarmed criminals running away from a burglary?

I doubt it.

Why should this guy get away with this?