I heard the convo on tape today. Tellin the dude the stuff being stolen "wasn't worth it" just pissed him off more. The emergency person should of been like "they took what? Whoa we'll get someone over their real fast - try not to be too upset over this outrage" But no - tell the guy any crime is trivial and he needs to just eat it.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
The story so far...
Mr. Horn has yet to be charged, police are still investigating.
The election for mayor or the town is coming up, all of the 7 candidates felt he should not be charged, that gives you a hint about what will happen (prob a no bill by the grand jury)
Both of the burglars have turned out to be illegal immigrants with multiple aliases, one was deported in 99' & was on probation.
The victim's who were burglarized were Vietnamese business owners, it's suspected they were singled out because they were likely to have cash around the house, and the burglars were found with $2K in cash evidently from the house. The burglary ring they were part of preys on non native business people because of their habit of keeping cash around the house.
Mr. Horn has yet to be charged, police are still investigating.
The election for mayor or the town is coming up, all of the 7 candidates felt he should not be charged, that gives you a hint about what will happen (prob a no bill by the grand jury)
Both of the burglars have turned out to be illegal immigrants with multiple aliases, one was deported in 99' & was on probation.
The victim's who were burglarized were Vietnamese business owners, it's suspected they were singled out because they were likely to have cash around the house, and the burglars were found with $2K in cash evidently from the house. The burglary ring they were part of preys on non native business people because of their habit of keeping cash around the house.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
You have a point..... except for the FACT that these theives were caught red-handed and clearly weren't innocent.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
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Looks like both were shot in the back. So much for them lunging at him. There goes self defense...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22152984/
Do you still stand by your earlier statements that he was completely justified in shooting them now that it is a fact that they were no threat to him and the shooting was in the back?
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
I'm sure he does, the general gist in this thread wasn't about self-defense, but about the right to shoot theives fleeing with property. This won't change anyone's view, but the lawyer should quit with the "scared for his life" crap. He announced on the call that he was going to stop them, he was gonna kill them, then he went outside and did it. He may actually be justified under Texas law but let's dispense with the pretense about self-defense and have a real public discourse on killing over property.
That makes it nearly impossible to justify the shooting...however we still need to know their location when they were shot. If he was on his own property, and they charged onto it, he raised the gun, they turned, he fired, then it's still justified. Or if they made a threatening gesture with what could have been a weapon, regardless of if they were turned. He's on very thin ground now however.
If he does face charges I have a feeling it will be very minor, and a jury might let him off anyway given the atmosphere of support for his actions. I can't really argue against it either, since people are feeling abused and powerless right now by a government that refuses to act for their protection. It might just be that the only way to get a better justice system in the country is to start upping the stakes.
Get caught it the act and you are fair game. Innocent untill proven guilty only applies after you are arrested anyway (justice system). Judge his actions by the Cops own standards of shooting offences, man standing on stoop of own property (Haitian in NYC, shot dead, twenty rounds), shot for obeying cop's orders (serviceman in Kalifornia) getting shot in the back for fleeing is nothing. What is at the base of your grudge against Horn, envy?
Uh....the cops were wrong in that case and have been charged with manslaughter.
Two wrongs != right
Also, same question to you that I posed to Nebor....what crimes can you be caught in the act of that are okay to be executed for?
When the highway patrol pulls you over after radaring you, are you saying that he is now allowed to just shoot you and save the time required to write a ticket? After all, he has "caught you in an illegal act".
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,819
- 1,126
- 126
Not to mention he spoke to the dispatcher about the September expansion that gives homeowners greater protection from prosecution should they choose to confront someone breaking into their home.
Nebor
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2003
- 29,582
- 12
- 76
I was referring to violent crime. Burglary is typically a premeditated crime. They choose a place where they know no one will be.
And NYC is indeed heavily armed. Bloomberg estimates several million illegal guns per year move through and are dispersed in NYC.
I'm not going to argue that there's an inverse relationship between guns and crime though. I can only speak for myself, and my guns, and they stop crime.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
I've challenged you on this statement before. Though there are undoubtedly some guns here, compared to cities in Texas it is a real stretch to claim NYC is "heavily armed." Assuming criminals in both places have guns in roughly equal numbers (though I would speculate more in Texas do simply because they are easier to procure) lets look at civilian ownership. There's about 40,000 permits for NYC's 8 million residents, or 0.05%, and that's home ownership, not concealed carry, which requires a special permit in NYC and is very difficult to acquire. Owning an unregistered gun in NYC will get you 3 years in prison, and that's advertised in the subway and around town. In contrast, 200,000 Texans (can't find individual city stats) have concealed carry permits, and the number of homes with guns is apparently so high no one bothers to measure it.
I'm not sure what the law says about such a situation but it matters to me because of the moral judgment I make on Mr. Horn.
If he told them to stop and they ran off carrying the loot then the crime is still in progress and he has the right to chase them down, which means he is still in a life threatening situation. BUT, if they dropped the loot and ran then Mr. Horn had accomplished the goal of stopping the crime in progress and had no valid reason to shoot them as they fled.
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