Make a mistake at a game of Simon Says? You get killed.

[JSt0rm]

 

[Puffnstuff]

judge dread says the sentence is death.

Watch Judge Dredd execute his sentence.

 

[pmv]

He told him to keep his hands in the air. Then he told him to crawl. Oops. Not perfect. LYNCH THE COP for flubbing the instructions!!!!!!

He didn't shoot him for putting his hands down to crawl. He shot him when the hands inexplicably went toward the waist (a little bit after he had started crawling).

Inexplicable? My first thought was 'he's trying to pull his shorts up because this gun-point yoga-class the cop is conducting has probably caused them to slip slightly'.

Your defence of this shooting seems bizarre to me.

Of course it would take further information to decide if the problem is lousy-training of cops, recruitment of those psychologically-unsuited...or just a vicious-circle of an armed-population making cops act like an occupying army and then cops acting like that making people more supportive of having an armed population.

Whatever the reason, the US seems to have the worst cops in the first world.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Of course it would take further information to decide if the problem is lousy-training of cops, recruitment of those psychologically-unsuited...or just a vicious-circle of an armed-population making cops act like an occupying army and then cops acting like that making people more supportive of having an armed population.

That cop was filled with rage at the guy and they're supposed to be protecting the public, even the drunk ones in the hallway at some motel. How hard would it be to go over to him and cuff him without resorting to violence? Was he angry about being called out of the doughnut shop after the hot light came on?

 

[Ichinisan]

and they had him do all that in a open carry state? Does that make sense to you? Why have a open carry law if the cops just come and kill you?

It does not make sense. In my first post after reading why police were there:

I read an article.
... I don't think cops should respond with that kind of force for reports of someone with a firearm, ...

 

[Ichinisan]

Wow. Even if his problems can be traced back to knee problems, it still means he's not fit to serve in the field.

 

[Ichinisan]

Inexplicable? My first thought was 'he's trying to pull his shorts up because this gun-point yoga-class the cop is conducting has probably caused them to slip slightly'.

"Inexplicable" because the officer was very clear that hands toward waist is exactly what will get you killed. There is an obvious and very good reason for this. There is an obvious and very good reason for the officer to know if the guy is intoxicated and able to comprehend and follow instructions.

Your first thought is that he was reaching for his pants to pull them up. If you're wrong, ...

Your defence of this shooting seems bizarre to me.

Of course it would take further information to decide if the problem is lousy-training of cops, recruitment of those psychologically-unsuited...or just a vicious-circle of an armed-population making cops act like an occupying army and then cops acting like that making people more supportive of having an armed population.

Whatever the reason, the US seems to have the worst cops in the first world.

You don't get it. The guy had been inexplicably non compliant at the start. The police yelled through the megaphone for quite some time for the occupants of room 502 to acknowledge their presence and they did not. He said he wanted the female occupant to slowly walk out with hands visible...no response. After repeating all that for quite a while, the 2 occupants come strolling around the corner pretending they didn't hear anything at all from the hallway. He lied about his intoxication and the cop could only interpret certain behaviors as non-compliance.

 

[Ichinisan]

That cop was filled with rage at the guy and they're supposed to be protecting the public, even the drunk ones in the hallway at some motel. How hard would it be to go over to him and cuff him without resorting to violence? Was he angry about being called out of the doughnut shop after the hot light came on?

It was clear to me that he was following training. He was operating under the assumption that someone else could be in the room waiting to attack anyone that approached the entrance. A certain possibility considering the occupants' reluctance to emerge.

I haven't had police training, but I think that's pretty obvious.

He was going to make both of those people in the hallway come to the corner in such a manner that they would not be able to endanger the officers (keep hands visible, do not walk, DO NOT REACH FOR WAISTBAND, etc).

 

[Puffnstuff]

It was clear to me that he was following training. He was operating under the assumption that someone else could be in the room waiting to attack anyone that approached the entrance. A certain possibility considering the occupants' reluctance to emerge.

There's a difference in verbally instructing someone to perform a specific task and angrily yelling at them which this cop was clearly demonstrating. If he was merely parroting his training then his department should be sued for training negligence.

 

[Ichinisan]

There's a difference in verbally instructing someone to perform a specific task and angrily yelling at them which this cop was clearly demonstrating.

He made it extremely clear that he was serious about the hands going toward the waistband. You know what? They still went to the waistband. "Oh he talked too strongly." Apparently not strongly enough.

Certainly any sober person would have understood the situation and responded appropriately. That's why it was important to correctly understand whether he was intoxicated or not.

You also seem to ignore the initial non-compliance. They spoke loud and clear into the megaphone. The occupants did not acknowledge their presence and did not emerge in the way they were instructed. They came strolling down the hallway together!

Yeah. I guess they should be more gentle and less assertive after these two had already demonstrated unwillingness to comply.

If he was merely parroting his training then his department should be sued for training negligence.

They would get sued for negligence when officers die because they don't approach this encounter with the necessary precautions. Training them to approach the doorway to apprehend them would be a huge mistake.

 

[Engineer]

The cop should be in jail and the whoever came up with the verdict should be hanged on this one. His family should sue the living fuck out of the police department, city and country for this (since there will be no other justice for this poor man).

 

[ivwshane]

He made it extremely clear that he was serious about the hands going toward the waistband. You know what? They still went to the waistband. "Oh he talked too strongly." Apparently not strongly enough.

Certainly any sober person would have understood the situation and responded appropriately. That's why it was important to correctly understand whether he was intoxicated or not.

You also seem to ignore the initial non-compliance. They spoke loud and clear into the megaphone. The occupants did not acknowledge their presence and did not emerge in the way they were instructed. They came strolling down the hallway together!

Yeah. I guess they should be more gentle and less assertive after these two had already demonstrated unwillingness to comply.


They would get sued for negligence when officers die because they don't approach this encounter with the necessary precautions. Training them to approach the doorway to apprehend them would be a huge mistake.

Let me get this straight. When a cop asks someone if they are intoxicated and the person answers, the cop should take their response as gospel and continue the interaction based on the person's response?

I just have one question for you; are you fucking retarded?

 

[Jhhnn]

It's OK for cops to be trigger happy if they're trained to be trigger happy, right? That makes everything peachy.

It's bullshit. Don't shoot until you see a gun, particularly when you have the suspect in your sights.

 

[pmv]

"

Your first thought is that he was reaching for his pants to pull them up. If you're wrong, ...

Then I'm fine, because I don't live in a country that is full of guns. Which also isn't a country where you have to learn a checklist of exact procedures to follow to the letter when dealing with the police, just in order to not be shot dead.

As I said, you have the worst cops in the Western world. The precise reasons are left as an exercise to the reader (I'm not going to declare which of the three possible causes I gave is 'correct', not my place to do so, but the end results seem pretty clear).

 

[theeedude]

Welcome to Republican "Law and Order" America.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Welcome to Republican "Law and Order" America.

Here's an instructional video to help you navigate those waters.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Yep saw this in another forum. The cop should be prosecuted and convicted of 2nd or 3rd degree murder. It was disgusting to see that video and the unreasonable bullshit they put that guy through. This from a pro-gun and usually pro-cop guy.

 

[JSt0rm]

He made it extremely clear that he was serious about the hands going toward the waistband. You know what? They still went to the waistband. "Oh he talked too strongly." Apparently not strongly enough.

How about taking 2 minutes to calm the guy down instead of yelling more and more nonsense at him?

Certainly any sober person would have understood the situation and responded appropriately. That's why it was important to correctly understand whether he was intoxicated or not.

I was confused hearing the commands coming from those cops. Im pretty sure any sober person wouldnt understand crawling with your hands up isnt crawling. We learn to crawl at 6 months old. its on all 4's.

You also seem to ignore the initial non-compliance. They spoke loud and clear into the megaphone. The occupants did not acknowledge their presence and did not emerge in the way they were instructed. They came strolling down the hallway together!

"oh lets go talk to those cops. There was a misunderstanding" How would you even know they are talking to you? You are in a hotel with a hundred people and you haven't done anything illegal.

Yeah. I guess they should be more gentle and less assertive after these two had already demonstrated unwillingness to comply.

The order itself was illegal in a open carry state as you already agreed.

They would get sued for negligence when officers die because they don't approach this encounter with the necessary precautions. Training them to approach the doorway to apprehend them would be a huge mistake.

Oh Really? And what did the cops do after they killed this guy? They walked right up to and stood infront of this doorway and bumbled with the keycards. Clearly their training is shit.

Also, That guy should never have that caliber weapon on a interior. They should of been carrying mp5 with 9mm to minimize penetration into walls as the place is a fucking hotel. So don't talk about these morons training as if it was good.

 

[Jerem]

Snip

Also, That guy should never have that caliber weapon on a interior. They should of been carrying mp5 with 9mm to minimize penetration into walls as the place is a fucking hotel. So don't talk about these morons training as if it was good.

Yeah, but he really wanted to break in his personal AR, the one that had "You're Fucked" inscribed on it

 

[Ichinisan]

Let me get this straight. When a cop asks someone if they are intoxicated and the person answers, the cop should take their response as gospel and continue the interaction based on the person's response?

I just have one question for you; are you fucking retarded?

OK. What's the point of even asking then? If he had told the truth, the officer would have proceeded differently. He would have expected diminished coordination / concentration / comprehension. Instead of making assumptions, he asked. Lying means he's partially responsible for setting incorrect expectations.

 

[Ichinisan]

It's OK for cops to be trigger happy if they're trained to be trigger happy, right? That makes everything peachy.

It's bullshit. Don't shoot until you see a gun, particularly when you have the suspect in your sights.

Ha ha ha!

"Don't shoot until you see a gun" (when it's likely too late).

Well then. They better quadruple what they pay these officers in dangerous situations, and the compensation their families receive when an officer is injured or killed.

 

[Ichinisan]

Then I'm fine, because I don't live in a country that is full of guns. Which also isn't a country where you have to learn a checklist of exact procedures to follow to the letter when dealing with the police, just in order to not be shot dead.

He didn't have to "learn" anything. The consequences were spelled out loudly and clearly to deter any dangerous resistance. Lying about his impairment directly contributed to his death.

As I said, you have the worst cops in the Western world. The precise reasons are left as an exercise to the reader (I'm not going to declare which of the three possible causes I gave is 'correct', not my place to do so, but the end results seem pretty clear).

Good cops should let someone shoot them. Got it.

 

[Maxima1]

Ha ha ha!

"Don't shoot until you see a gun" (when it's likely too late).

Well then. They better quadruple what they pay these officers in dangerous situations, and the compensation their families receive when an officer is injured or killed.

Cops don't even make it in the top ten of dangerous jobs each year. Half of their deaths are traffic accidents. A taxi driver or trucker has the same rate and many others like roofers are higher. In private sector, the premium for risk is zilch or not a whole lot. Heck, it can even possibly be negative.

Any idiot could do this guy's job with their standards. I can't blame him for it all, however, because they're taught not to take ANY risks whatsoever even if it's infinitesimal such as this case. You know, the whole rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 thing.

 

[JSt0rm]

Ha ha ha!

"Don't shoot until you see a gun" (when it's likely too late).

Well then. They better quadruple what they pay these officers in dangerous situations, and the compensation their families receive when an officer is injured or killed.

The last cop to be killed in mesa az was in 1913. They chose to be police. We chose to be citizens. Citizens shouldn't be put in danger because cops want less risk. soldiers operating in iraq had more strict rules of engagement then us police officers.

 

[JSt0rm]

Good cops should let someone shoot them. Got it.

The worst outcome is a cop killing someone who shouldnt be killed. The second worst outcome is a cop dying because they were slow to react.

you have these backwards.