Maine might use stimulus funds for... APPLE LAPTOPS???

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

jpeyton is glossing over several crucial disadvantages to laptops. But really, anyone surprised?

Serious waste of money.

jbourne77 is ignoring several crucial advantages of laptops and contemporary technolgy over printed textbooks, but really, NO ONE is suprised. :roll:

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Harvey

I don't know what century you live in, but history changes faster, and the impact of those changes spread faster and wider than in previous years. Try looking up Osama Bin Ladin or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the causes and effects of the current worldwide financial collapse in your ten year old textbooks. Then, try to teach the equivalent growth of scientific and technical information over the same period.

In the 21st century, a ten year old history or science textbook may as well be an archological relic for all the good it is. :light:

Yes, because the bulk of teaching in schools is about developments that have taken place in the last 10 years, and almost none of it focuses on the previous hundred million years. 😕

A ten year old textbook, supplemented with some internet or magazine articles (or even articles written by the teacher) is fine for 99% of pre-college classes.

Back on topic: The stimulus was all about pork to begin with. This is nothing new, and certainly isn't the worst waste of money. It still sucks though. Where's MY free Macbook?

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: jbourne77

jpeyton is glossing over several crucial disadvantages to laptops. But really, anyone surprised?

Serious waste of money.

jbourne77 is ignoring several crucial advantages of laptops and contemporary technolgy over printed textbooks, but really, NO ONE is suprised. :roll:

I can get a helluva lot of books for $600 that will last more than one year. And that $600 is per student. I can also spend a lot less and provide a computer lab to get kids exposed to computers.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: rudder]

I can get a helluva lot of books for $600 that will last more than one year. And that $600 is per student. I can also spend a lot less and provide a computer lab to get kids exposed to computers.

But can you get a hell of a lot of books for $600 that will last more than five or six years? 😕

The lab is just to teach students how to use the machine. Its' what they can do with it once they've learned the basics that makes it worthwhile. Once the student has the machine, it can hold all the books they'll need for their entire time in middle school and highschool, including assigned extra reading and other books of choice. 😎

And you're still ignoring all the other things they can do with it that I've noted in my previous posts.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: Harvey

I don't know what century you live in, but history changes faster, and the impact of those changes spread faster and wider than in previous years. Try looking up Osama Bin Ladin or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the causes and effects of the current worldwide financial collapse in your ten year old textbooks. Then, try to teach the equivalent growth of scientific and technical information over the same period.

In the 21st century, a ten year old history or science textbook may as well be an archological relic for all the good it is. :light:

Yes, because the bulk of teaching in schools is about developments that have taken place in the last 10 years, and almost none of it focuses on the previous hundred million years. 😕

A ten year old textbook, supplemented with some internet or magazine articles (or even articles written by the teacher) is fine for 99% of pre-college classes.

Back on topic: The stimulus was all about pork to begin with. This is nothing new, and certainly isn't the worst waste of money. It still sucks though. Where's MY free Macbook?

You'll have to excuse him, when Harvey was in school there was only about 10 years of recorded history....😛

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: rudder]

I can get a helluva lot of books for $600 that will last more than one year. And that $600 is per student. I can also spend a lot less and provide a computer lab to get kids exposed to computers.

But can you get a hell of a lot of books for $600 that will last more than five or six years? 😕

The lab is just to teach students how to use the machine. Its' what they can do with it once they've learned the basics that makes it worthwhile. Once the student has the machine, it can hold all the books they'll need for their entire time in middle school and highschool, including assigned extra reading and other books of choice. 😎

And you're still ignoring all the other things they can do with it that I've noted in my previous posts.

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Hacp

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

I'm even more sure than you are that any school using an e-textbook system will have paid the licensing fees for the works they assign and distribute through the school's system. Those same licensing fees would be part of the cost of any book, but there's still no printing, no paper and no shipping costs, and the e-books are still infinitely updatable without further cost.

I'm really getting bored with your pathetic whining and faux outrage over a non-issue. :roll:

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

At least they weren't Dell's (look up the UK and Dell trades if you want to know a horror story of lousy equipment).

I had to buy my own phone and laptop for anything to work and so did almost everyone else.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: rudder]

I can get a helluva lot of books for $600 that will last more than one year. And that $600 is per student. I can also spend a lot less and provide a computer lab to get kids exposed to computers.

But can you get a hell of a lot of books for $600 that will last more than five or six years? 😕

The lab is just to teach students how to use the machine. Its' what they can do with it once they've learned the basics that makes it worthwhile. Once the student has the machine, it can hold all the books they'll need for their entire time in middle school and highschool, including assigned extra reading and other books of choice. 😎

And you're still ignoring all the other things they can do with it that I've noted in my previous posts.

Good luck getting them to last 5-6 years if they can take them off campus. They will get lost, stolen,hawked,dropped, spilled on or ruined in other ways. Unless the parents are willing to put a deposit down in case the kid ruins his expenisve mac book then nope stick to text books.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

I'm even more sure than you are that any school using an e-textbook system will have paid the licensing fees for the works they assign and distribute through the school's system. Those same licensing fees would be part of the cost of any book, but there's still no printing, no paper and no shipping costs, and the e-books are still infinitely updatable without further cost.

I'm really getting bored with your pathetic whining and faux outrage over a non-issue. :roll:

And you'd expect publishers to give significant discounts? And howd you come up with the 600 dollar number? Last I checked, apple laptops were 1000 dollars.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Topic Title: Maine might use stimulus funds for... APPLE LAPTOPS???
Topic Summary: Your tax dollars hard at work

At least it's Apples and not Dells.

 

[Vic]

Oh noes! Maine used stimulus money to buy school computers! :Q

 

[Acanthus]

On a side note, where are apple computers assembled?

I know for a fact they employ only people inside the US for tech support, and have the highest rating for service and support in the industry from consumer reports.

So the money is going to an American company that employs American workers to help American children learn...

And if your kids dont have laptops in this point of the game... you must live in a red state.

Trickle down some laptops for your kids.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

I'm even more sure than you are that any school using an e-textbook system will have paid the licensing fees for the works they assign and distribute through the school's system. Those same licensing fees would be part of the cost of any book, but there's still no printing, no paper and no shipping costs, and the e-books are still infinitely updatable without further cost.

I'm really getting bored with your pathetic whining and faux outrage over a non-issue. :roll:

And you'd expect publishers to give significant discounts? And howd you come up with the 600 dollar number? Last I checked, apple laptops were 1000 dollars.

Academic discounts, most all Computer Manufacturers give them, especially when their products are bought in bulk.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Better yet, save a few trees, and hit Google for far more in depth and wider ranging sources of info. But if you didn't fail arithmetic in your school, I'll give you something to chew on with figures I'm pulling out of thin air, but they're reasonable...

If a MacBook costs $1,000 at the schoolboard's quantity and an educational discount, and an average textbook costs around $35, that will buy each student a little over 28 books, or four books for each of seven classes, or two books for fourteen classes, over the student's full time in middleschool and highschool.

During that time, every one of those e-textbooks can be continually updated and errata can be corrected, and every one of those students can hand in their homework, write their papers, and get their grades and individual counseling and assistance from all of their teachers, counselors and advisors, all without wasting paper or spending a penny for gas beyond what they need to get to and from school for classes.

Did I mention they can also do group projects and group study sessions with the same savings?

None of this replaces or removes the need for good teachers and caring parents because the technology can just as easily be used for mischief, but get over your faux outrage, and get used to taking advantage of technology in the 21st century. That's what other nations are doing, and right now, they're eating our lunch when it comes education and our future. 🙁

Truth.

 

[Carmen813]

I don't know if this was brought up, but you can report fraud and abuse of stimulus funds at:
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=con.../fraud-waste-and-abuse

Maybe a few of you would like to do that....

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

I'm even more sure than you are that any school using an e-textbook system will have paid the licensing fees for the works they assign and distribute through the school's system. Those same licensing fees would be part of the cost of any book, but there's still no printing, no paper and no shipping costs, and the e-books are still infinitely updatable without further cost.

I'm really getting bored with your pathetic whining and faux outrage over a non-issue. :roll:

And you'd expect publishers to give significant discounts?

Textbook publishers have routinely dealt with educational systems for decades, and they include all licensing fees in the price of the books they sell.

With e-textbooks, I expect the suppliers of text materials would continue the same kinds of routine contractual agreements with educational systems. Nothing would change except the physical nature of the medium and the means of delivery, both of which cost less and use fewer natural resources than with physical paper books.

And howd you come up with the 600 dollar number? Last I checked, apple laptops were 1000 dollars.

What $600 number? Read my post. Apple has always given large discounts to educational institutions, but I used the far more conservative $1,000 estimate, which I said I was pulling out of thin air as an example, and the numbers still work for e-texts.

Converting to e-books wouldn't be free, but it would provide much better, more current and more diverse text materials for far less money.

If you're complaining because you consider yourself a genuine "conservative," that should make you very happy.

If you're complaining because you're looking for stones to throw at Obama's stimulus program, get over yourself, your pathetic whining and your faux outrage over a non-issue, and get used to the the idea that technology can be used to do at least some things better.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

I'm even more sure than you are that any school using an e-textbook system will have paid the licensing fees for the works they assign and distribute through the school's system. Those same licensing fees would be part of the cost of any book, but there's still no printing, no paper and no shipping costs, and the e-books are still infinitely updatable without further cost.

I'm really getting bored with your pathetic whining and faux outrage over a non-issue. :roll:

And you'd expect publishers to give significant discounts?

Textbook publishers have routinely dealt with educational systems for decades, and they include all licensing fees in the price of the books they sell.

With e-textbooks, I expect the suppliers of text materials would continue the same kinds of routine contractual agreements with educational systems. Nothing would change except the physical nature of the medium and the means of delivery, both of which cost less and use fewer natural resources than with physical paper books.

And howd you come up with the 600 dollar number? Last I checked, apple laptops were 1000 dollars.

What $600 number? Read my post. Apple has always given large discounts to educational institutions, but I used the far more conservative $1,000 estimate, which I said I was pulling out of thin air as an example, and the numbers still work for e-texts.

Converting to e-books wouldn't be free, but it would provide much better, more current and more diverse text materials for far less money.

If you're complaining because you consider yourself a genuine "conservative," that should make you very happy.

If you're complaining because you're looking for stones to throw at Obama's stimulus program, get over yourself, your pathetic whining and your faux outrage over a non-issue, and get used to the the idea that technology can be used to do at least some things better.

And you think publishers will give significant discounts why? They'll probably charge as much as they can. Remember, these guys have the markets to themselves. 4-5 companies basically own the text book industry. They have no reason to give huge discounts on the ebook versions. 20-30%? Maybe. But that won't be enough to offset the costs of apple laptops. Won't be close.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hacp

I'm sure you won't ever need to buy the rights to access the digital copies of the books. Ever...

I'm even more sure than you are that any school using an e-textbook system will have paid the licensing fees for the works they assign and distribute through the school's system. Those same licensing fees would be part of the cost of any book, but there's still no printing, no paper and no shipping costs, and the e-books are still infinitely updatable without further cost.

I'm really getting bored with your pathetic whining and faux outrage over a non-issue. :roll:

And you'd expect publishers to give significant discounts?

Textbook publishers have routinely dealt with educational systems for decades, and they include all licensing fees in the price of the books they sell.

With e-textbooks, I expect the suppliers of text materials would continue the same kinds of routine contractual agreements with educational systems. Nothing would change except the physical nature of the medium and the means of delivery, both of which cost less and use fewer natural resources than with physical paper books.

And howd you come up with the 600 dollar number? Last I checked, apple laptops were 1000 dollars.

What $600 number? Read my post. Apple has always given large discounts to educational institutions, but I used the far more conservative $1,000 estimate, which I said I was pulling out of thin air as an example, and the numbers still work for e-texts.

Converting to e-books wouldn't be free, but it would provide much better, more current and more diverse text materials for far less money.

If you're complaining because you consider yourself a genuine "conservative," that should make you very happy.

If you're complaining because you're looking for stones to throw at Obama's stimulus program, get over yourself, your pathetic whining and your faux outrage over a non-issue, and get used to the the idea that technology can be used to do at least some things better.

And you think publishers will give significant discounts why? They'll probably charge as much as they can. Remember, these guys have the markets to themselves. 4-5 companies basically own the text book industry. They have no reason to give huge discounts on the ebook versions. 20-30%? Maybe. But that won't be enough to offset the costs of apple laptops. Won't be close.

BULLSHIT! You're being repetitive and redundant again, and again, and again. Then, you repeat yourself. :roll:

I'm beginning to think you're just pissed and jealous because the schools you attended failed to give you adequate reading and math skills.

 

[Jaskalas]

Since 2002, the Maine Technology Learning Initiative (MTLI) has provided middle school students across the state with MacBook laptops. The state's Department of Education decided to expand the offering so students in grades 7 up to 12 will have access to the state-funded laptops.

Huh.

A chicken in every pot has turned to a laptop for every child? Perhaps I cannot argue on this one until I can determine what the merits are for it. Are these classroom laptops that do not leave their desk, or do the children wholly own and take them home?

Seems like one hell of a gift, unless it's specifically used as a tool in the classroom. In which case it might very well be worthy.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

A chicken in every pot has turned to a laptop for every child? Perhaps I cannot argue on this one until I can determine what the merits are for it. Are these classroom laptops that do not leave their desk, or do the children wholly own and take them home?

Seems like one hell of a gift, unless it's specifically used as a tool in the classroom. In which case it might very well be worthy.

Or the schools could issue them to each student to be returned at the end of the school year. There are lots of ways the details could be worked out to maximize the academic return on the investment, as well as the security of the hardware.

But thanks for some good, critical thinking, instead of rejecting the idea based on a gut reaction to a supposed "abuse" of stim funds. :thumbsup:

 

[Jaskalas]

I?m not against the idea at all, I just hope it is put to good use.

 

[teclis1023]

I hardly think that kids need laptops in K-12 school. Several people said this before, and I'll agree - desktops are a much better bang-for-the-buck.

And unless these schools are locking the wi-fi down, the kids are most DEFINITELY spending a lot of their time on facebook. But the rub is, IF they ARE locking wifi down, then these laptops are nothing more than expensive pads of paper.

And as for the mac-hate and pc-hate ... it's all dumb. The kids can do just fine on netbooks loaded with linux.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
I hardly think that kids need laptops in K-12 school. Several people said this before, and I'll agree - desktops are a much better bang-for-the-buck.

And unless these schools are locking the wi-fi down, the kids are most DEFINITELY spending a lot of their time on facebook. But the rub is, IF they ARE locking wifi down, then these laptops are nothing more than expensive pads of paper.

And as for the mac-hate and pc-hate ... it's all dumb. The kids can do just fine on netbooks loaded with linux.

I agree netbooks with Linux would be much better. Especially those older asus 8.9 inch netbooks they are built tough and dirt cheap. I see enough laptops ruined by professional adults I can only imagine kids with them. I don't think kids need some ubar expensive mac book that Will be lucky to last 1 school year with out being destroyed or stolen.

 

[maluckey]

Not much Wi-Fi outside of Southern Maine. There's still places that dial-up or satellite is the only option. And the there's places that won't EVER get faster connection.

My guess is that these are for school use only, and not for take home. Laptops don't do so well at 25 below zero (without wind chill) at the bus stop for half an hour. Even if it could withstand that sort of cold, you'd need to let it warm up for well over an hour, out of the carrying case to avoid damaging the unit. Many locations get snow in October and spring is March or April when the Ice goes out of the lakes. The average low temperatures in May (in the middle of the state are in the 30"s).

Maine has one the highest literacy rates in the U.S., but overall they are pretty sheltered in the North. Partly because of the terrain, partly the weather and partly because the history of Maine being what it was, had some pretty stubborn and set in their ways stock as the original settlers. Genetics is hard to beat, and forcing them into the computer age MIGHT help.