M&S Faces Boycott As It Lets Muslim Staff Refuse To Sell Alcohol Or Pork

[Incorruptible]

You really cant blame her, she is just following what she thinks her religion demands of her. The folks to be blamed are the management, who should have known that at Christmas time this would become a issue. Its only the busiest time of year for Wine sales and Pork! And im sure the issue caused a long line and some complaints to...The best thing they could do is move her off the registers. Problem largely solved.

There shouldn't be pandering at all though. They shouldn't have hired her or she needs to grow up and stop acting like an idiot. It's clear that she doesn't really care about the customer.

 

[WelshBloke]

The only pandering that's going on is in not banning you.

There shouldn't be pandering at all though.

For once I agree with you.

 

[Incorruptible]

For once I agree with you.

Glad we agree. You need to speak out against what's going on or otherwise it will be too late.

 

[xj0hnx]

She should never have been hired if she pulls this crap. This is just too much political correctness and pandering along with the failure of multiculturalism.

Is it too much political correctness and pandering if she had refused to issue marriage certificates to gay couples?

 

[Darwin333]

There shouldn't be pandering at all though. They shouldn't have hired her or she needs to grow up and stop acting like an idiot. It's clear that she doesn't really care about the customer.

Why shouldn't they have hired her?

 

[Darwin333]

Not going to comment on incor's position, he gets enough shit and it always derails threads. I swear he has stalkers.

Anyway, IMO, I think the person refusing to sell the pill should never have worked there in the first place knowing it could be a possibility. If an employer asks a prospective employee: "Would you have any problems selling a morning after pill to a customer?" during the interview that could prevent some problems. Same with pork/alcohol.

Of course some will scream exclusion of a protected class, but since the companies are selling legal products I don't personally feel that applies in a case like this, where it is the employee refusing service based on religious grounds. (ie: don't extend that to a racial thing)

Again, lets find a way to weed these problems out during interview process, but I imagine that would be a legal headache as it could tangentially identify ones religion. But then if the employee is going to use religious grounds to not perform a duty of their position...

I dunno. It seems to happen so absurdly rarely (the fact that it is news supports that) that I can't see why any company would risk a potential lawsuit everytime they hire someone to stop a problem they can easily and swiftly deal with in the very rare case that it comes up.

 

[WelshBloke]

Glad we agree. You need to speak out against what's going on or otherwise it will be too late.

Indeed. The mods seem to see fit to keep you around though.

They must have a dark sense of humour.

 

[Darwin333]

The employee knew that the store served alcohol and pork yet she still worked there. How about find a different place to work.

Where does it say in the Quran for her to refuse service to a loyal customer?

The employee should have been punished or fired and an apology issued along with measures taken so this never happens again.

Gotta love the hypocrisy where the same people who attack Christians don't say anything here.

I'm an equal opportunity offender and asshole. The dumb bitch from the op is a dumb bitch and if it was my store I would fire her. Seeing how it isn't my store, I can't say what disciplinary action they should take. If the consumer thinks that said actions are not good enough they are free to not shop there anymore. That is the way capitalism works.

Why do you hate capitalism so much?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Why do you hate capitalism so much?

He's a good Christian, Jesus was a socialist.

 

[Incorruptible]

Why shouldn't they have hired her?

Because clearly she doesn't do her job. If she actually thinks it was appropriate to refuse service and call for someone else she needs to be fired. She knew they had alcohol and pork. It's not like they were forcing her to consume it but just handle it for less than a minute.

What she did was wrong and not good customer service.

I'm an equal opportunity offender and asshole. The dumb bitch from the op is a dumb bitch and if it was my store I would fire her. Seeing how it isn't my store, I can't say what disciplinary action they should take. If the consumer thinks that said actions are not good enough they are free to not shop there anymore. That is the way capitalism works.

Why do you hate capitalism so much?

I am one of the biggest defenders of Capitalism since there is so much hatred towards it on here.

I am voicing my opinion and quote me where I said the government should get involved.

If it was my business I would have fired her immediately. No way you disrespect the customer like that. The same customer who pays your wages.

 

[Geosurface]

Indeed. The mods seem to see fit to keep you around though.

They must have a dark sense of humour.

I haven't much use for Incorruptible, but this attitude of openly wishing for censorship and someone else's opinions (no matter how stupid they may be) to be removed from your sight, by force, is a vile urge and worse than anything he has posted.

 

[WelshBloke]

I haven't much use for Incorruptible, but this attitude of openly wishing for censorship and someone else's opinions (no matter how stupid they may be) to be removed from your sight, by force, is a vile urge and worse than anything he has posted.

Yeah I'm totally suggesting that the mods should go round to his house and break his fingers to stop him posting. 😕

Or is your idea of force something different?

 

[Geosurface]

Yeah I'm totally suggesting that the mods should go round to his house and break his fingers to stop him posting. 😕

Or is your idea of force something different?

I'm simply talking about your desire for those you disagree with to be removed. I find that impulse to censor to be one of the worst qualities a person can have. I felt exactly the same when I was still a liberal, too. I realize now that made me unusual within that group. Liberals talk a good game about free expression of ideas, but I've come to realize they are more censorious (at least currently) than conservatives.

 

[alzan]

So apparently you know as little about Fascism and Socialism as you do about the historical concept of marriage.

Ok.

But he does know a lot about man-toaster relationships, or is at least very curious...

I have no problem with company hiring who they want. It's a private company, let 'em do what they want.

I have no problem with people boycotting them for it. It's their money and they can spend it where they wish.

Fern

This

 

[alzan]

I'm simply talking about your desire for those you disagree with to be removed. I find that impulse to censor to be one of the worst qualities a person can have. I felt exactly the same when I was still a liberal, too. I realize now that made me unusual within that group. Liberals talk a good game about free expression of ideas, but I've come to realize they are more censorious (at least currently) than conservatives.

Are you sure there isn't a wider brush with which you can paint?

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm simply talking about your desire for those you disagree with to be removed.

I disagree with about 95% of the forum so it's really nothing to do with that but do carry on pulling theories out of your butt.

 

[shady28]

This kind of thing is a lot more common than most people are aware. For example, a Jewish person who works in an area that requires them to be on-call, refusing the answer their pager on Saturday.

Most companies have a very simple policy on this kind of thing. Doing your job function is a "term of employment". If you refuse to do a task that is a part of your job, and a reasonable accommodation cannot be made, then you can either quit or you get fired.

I don't think it gets simpler than that. Refuse to do your job function = no job.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Just to get back to the original post for a minute. Basically every concern raised in the original post (quoted below) was answered in a reasonable and fact based manner.

And now you're simply raving? What? Did a Muslim kick your puppy when you were 5?

You're ranting and raving has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of the situation. Hell, if it's all about the rant, then just rant. Don't bother pretending (poorly) that you actually want a debate.

Customers at Marks & Spencer were outraged when a Muslim worker refused to serve customers who wanted to buy alcohol or pork.


This is just wrong. What about Sikh and Hindu employees who can't eat meat or have alcohol? They don't complain but do the job and it's not like they're being forced to consume them.

Would they allow this for a Christian refusing to serve gay people or a Jewish employee not wanting to handle pork?

Many customers were furious over this and have rightfully threatened to boycott the store. If employees don't want to handle pork, alcohol or other meat then don't work there.

Were the customers right to be angry and threaten a boycott? Should the employee be punished and not get special privileges?

The good news out of this is the customers fought back and threatened a boycott. Hopefully this doesn't happen again but I have my doubts.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fuse-serve-customers-buying-alcohol-pork.html

And again, just for the record, you first raise the issue of religious fairness. This was answered with the direct statement by the company spokesperson that said that their company policy covered *all* religions and gave examples of Christians or Jews not being asked to work on their respective Sabbaths if they felt it ran against their religious beliefs.

So, if the company policy has a 'religion blind' tolerance built into their company's work policy what's your issue?

The Company also stated that the employee in question had been mistakenly (as in contrary to the company's own policy) assigned to that position that day. In other words, *she* didn't screw up in any way, the company made the mistake and owned up to it.

As for the customers that were interviewed in that article, most of them simply sound like they don't know the whole story.

The bottom line is that the company screwed up and the company apologized to both the public and the employee. Personally, I see 'much ado about nothing'. Everyone should just get a life and move on. There are actual serious grown-up things out there to worry about.

 

[Victorian Gray]

She should never have been hired if she pulls this crap. This is just too much political correctness and pandering along with the failure of multiculturalism.

One more time for the hard of hearing and, or, blind. Company policy! Company policy! company policy! Works for *all* religions!

Seems to me that if there are any Christians, Jews, Hindus or any other followers of religion who have any kind of religious accommodation with the company you better start raving about them as well.

Oh, sorry, I forgot, you only wish to disparage Muslims.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Because clearly she doesn't do her job. If she actually thinks it was appropriate to refuse service and call for someone else she needs to be fired. She knew they had alcohol and pork. It's not like they were forcing her to consume it but just handle it for less than a minute.

What she did was wrong and not good customer service.

And here you are simply a liar. The facts of the situation have been posted multiple times and you are simply ignoring the truth of the matter. She behaved in a manner completely in line with the company's work policies. She did absolutely nothing wrong and you damn well know it.

I am one of the biggest defenders of Capitalism since there is so much hatred towards it on here.

I am voicing my opinion and quote me where I said the government should get involved.

If it was my business I would have fired her immediately. No way you disrespect the customer like that. The same customer who pays your wages.

Once again, you are simply ignoring the actual facts of the situation and continuing to discuss it using exaggerations, hyperbole and outright lies.

Shame on you. Maybe it's time to grow up.

 

[brycejones]

And here you are simply a liar. The facts of the situation have been posted multiple times and you are simply ignoring the truth of the matter. She behaved in a manner completely in line with the company's work policies. She did absolutely nothing wrong and you damn well know it.



Once again, you are simply ignoring the actual facts of the situation and continuing to discuss it using exaggerations, hyperbole and outright lies.

Shame on you. Maybe it's time to grow up.

Welcome to attempting to have an intelligent discussion with incorruptible. He consistently refuses to acknowledge any information that doesn't fit in with his pre-determined narrative.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Welcome to attempting to have an intelligent discussion with incorruptible. He consistently refuses to acknowledge any information that doesn't fit in with his pre-determined narrative.

So it appears. <sigh>

 

[Incorruptible]

One more time for the hard of hearing and, or, blind. Company policy! Company policy! company policy! Works for *all* religions!

Seems to me that if there are any Christians, Jews, Hindus or any other followers of religion who have any kind of religious accommodation with the company you better start raving about them as well.

Oh, sorry, I forgot, you only wish to disparage Muslims.

I have made my views on clear on private business and pandering. She should have worked somewhere else.

Oh, sorry, I forgot, you only wish to engage in your usual tactics.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I have made my views on clear on private business and pandering. She should have worked somewhere else.

Why should she have worked somewhere else? According to the company's own policies she, as an employee, did absolutely nothing wrong. If her behavior in situations like this is acceptable to the company that hired her, why on earth should she not apply to work for this company?

As for 'pandering' are you prepared to say that a Christian who is not willing to work on Sundays due to their professed religious beliefs should not be 'pandered' to and that they should also not be working for the company?

Are you prepared to say that a Jew who is not willing to handle pork due to his/her professed religious beliefs should not be 'pandered' to and that they should also not be working for the company?

Are you prepared to say that a Hindu who is not willing to handle beef due to his/her professed religious beliefs should not be 'pandered' to and that they should also not be working for the company?

Oh, sorry, I forgot, you only wish to engage in your usual tactics.

Once again, what are these "usual tactics"? You've called me on this kind of stuff twice now, once using the word "typical" and now "usual tactics". Given that I've only been registered for roughly a month and have posted less than 60 messages I have to ask, what the heck are you talking about? You know virtually nothing about me, my belief system, politics or anything else.

Seriously, stop acting like some kid in high school and actually engage in discussion rather than simply repeating the same content-less sloganeering over and over again.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Why should she have worked somewhere else? According to the company's own policies she, as an employee, did absolutely nothing wrong. If her behavior in situations like this is acceptable to the company that hired her, why on earth should she not apply to work for this company?

As for 'pandering' are you prepared to say that a Christian who is not willing to work on Sundays due to their professed religious beliefs should not be 'pandered' to and that they should also not be working for the company?

Are you prepared to say that a Jew who is not willing to handle pork due to his/her professed religious beliefs should not be 'pandered' to and that they should also not be working for the company?

Are you prepared to say that a Hindu who is not willing to handle beef due to his/her professed religious beliefs should not be 'pandered' to and that they should also not be working for the company?



Once again, what are these "usual tactics"? You've called me on this kind of stuff twice now, once using the word "typical" and now "usual tactics". Given that I've only been registered for roughly a month and have posted less than 60 messages I have to ask, what the heck are you talking about? You know virtually nothing about me, my belief system, politics or anything else.

Seriously, stop acting like some kid in high school and actually engage in discussion rather than simply repeating the same content-less sloganeering over and over again.

Many have tried before you and failed. You will never get anything more than one line talking points and accusations of usual tactics. It's a losing battle in that he will never engage beyond what you seen now.

Someone said it earlier and it's sadly quite true. For every outrage he posts about muslims you will find other posts taking the complete opposite position in favour of Christians. I've often quoted his own words from other threads as replies and he remains completely clueless. Yet routinely he will accuse everyone's see of being hypocrites.

As you see here he doesn't even understand what he is posting about and won't acknowledge those who have repeatedly clarified what actually occurred.

A valiant effort, but sadly the deck has been stacked against you since the beginning.