Lowest math scores in the nation goes to...

[shortylickens]

Gee, who coulda thought this would turn into a flame fest.

This belongs in P&N. Its news and it quickly turned political.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

must be the lack of asians boosting the scores.

Races in Detroit:

* Black (81.6&#37😉
* White Non-Hispanic (10.5%)
* Hispanic (5.0%)
* Other race (2.5%)
* Two or more races (2.3%)
* American Indian (0.9%)

 

[Inspector Jihad]

too many pieces of shit having kids. also, the culture is not one that celebrates hard work. i'm all for that paying money for vasectomy idea :thumbsup:

 

[Exterous]

Ultimately it's the culture & parents that are to blame.

too many pieces of shit having kids. also, the culture is not one that celebrates hard work. i'm all for that paying money for vasectomy idea :thumbsup:

While my wide doesn't work for DPS she works in a district pretty close to it and I can tell you there is very little cultural motivation for doing well in school. Her and the other teacher's think it stems from the good ol automotive days in Detroit. This was back when a high school drop out could just go work at a plants and make $25+ an hour with awesome benefits. These people became parents who never saw a need for education and never decided to push their children to do well in school

And now it's biting Detroit and the surrounding areas on the ass - not that the parents can see that. They just blame the government and cry about SES or racial discrimination

 

[Exterous]

I guess Detroit has to win at something.

Yeah - it lost most dangerous city so they had to get something else.....

 

[feralkid]

...but how did they manage to make Robocop?

By using Dallas and Pittsburgh as film locations.

 

[Craig234]

:hmm:

What's your point, are you a scumbagracist?

 

[Toastedlightly]

What's your point, are you a scumbagracist?

He was merely pointing out an interesting fact about the situation. Isn't it possible that black parents care less about their child's education than white/yellow parents?

 

[hiromizu]

He was merely pointing out an interesting fact about the situation. Isn't it possible that black parents care less about their child's education than white/yellow parents?

Nah man, they take care of they kiz.

 

[Jaskalas]

A low income are having low test scores??? Well that's a first.

Goes to show that we CAN be a third world nation. Exhibit A of what happens if you collapse.

 

[Craig234]

Nah man, they take care of they kiz.

The scumbag racists are really crawlling out from under their rocks - here we have a post with nothing more than a racist caricature of a black accent.

Just goes to show what ignorant asses believe, that in their cluelessness about the legacy effects of centures of discrimination, it's something wrong with the race. Talk about blame the victim.

These jerks should go watch the 60 Minutes story last week about what happened with a school that had decent funding ($5,000 per student) in one of the worst parts, highly black, of NYC.

Over several years, their test scores have closed the huge gap with white test scores, in some cases passing them up, and you see hundreds of parents trying to get their kids in with not enough spots.

As the show says, it takes extra effort and resources to help the kids overcome the poverty, violence, and other problems in their community - while a number of the students were shot.

As usual, these racists don't understand their own ignorance and racism. They're just part of the problem, idiots hating.

Edit: I should be clear, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the gap for blacks when done in a constructive manner - it's when it's in a racist manner just to blame the victim that it's a problem, the 'it's only their own fault' comments. To be sure, blacks have a real responsibility to address these probelms, but that's only part of the picture.

Posts with slang racist caricatures are only despcable racism.

 

[Craig234]

Goes to show that we CAN be a third world nation. Exhibit A of what happens if you collapse.

For once we agree - people don't understand, in 1900 what a backwards country this was, with only the few rich getting much education, how the progressive reforms early in the century and the New Deal reforms of the 30's created our strong middle class, that is being trashed by the right-wing policies from Reagan forward.

 

[shortylickens]

The scumbag racists are really crawlling out from under their rocks - here we have a post with nothing more than a racist caricature of a black accent.

Just goes to show what ignorant asses believe, that in their cluelessness about the legacy effects of centures of discrimination, it's something wrong with the race. Talk about blame the victim.

These jerks should go watch the 60 Minutes story last week about what happened with a school that had decent funding ($5,000 per student) in one of the worst parts, highly black, of NYC.

Over several years, their test scores have closed the huge gap with white test scores, in some cases passing them up, and you see hundreds of parents trying to get their kids in with not enough spots.

As the show says, it takes extra effort and resources to help the kids overcome the poverty, violence, and other problems in their community - while a number of the students were shot.

As usual, these racists don't understand their own ignorance and racism. They're just part of the problem, idiots hating.

You're so cute.
I lol in your general direction.

Also,

 

[F1N3ST]

It's hard to care about school if you're high I would assume... My last standardized test the ACT I got a uhh 28 on the math part, it was the part I did best on 🙁 average score is 21...so I did a third better I guess. 😉

 

[Toastedlightly]

The scumbag racists are really crawlling out from under their rocks - here we have a post with nothing more than a racist caricature of a black accent.

Just goes to show what ignorant asses believe, that in their cluelessness about the legacy effects of centures of discrimination, it's something wrong with the race. Talk about blame the victim.

These jerks should go watch the 60 Minutes story last week about what happened with a school that had decent funding ($5,000 per student) in one of the worst parts, highly black, of NYC.

Over several years, their test scores have closed the huge gap with white test scores, in some cases passing them up, and you see hundreds of parents trying to get their kids in with not enough spots.

As the show says, it takes extra effort and resources to help the kids overcome the poverty, violence, and other problems in their community - while a number of the students were shot.

As usual, these racists don't understand their own ignorance and racism. They're just part of the problem, idiots hating.

Part of school funding does come from parental support. Who helps vote on, campaign for, and pass the tax increases that school districts want? Parents need to care.

When I was a kid, most of my learning was done at home with the support of my parents. Parental support is absolutely required to be raised as a successful person.

Watching the video now. Will report.

Thoughts on the video:

6 students to 1 teacher!?
On site medical clinic!?
ALL kids go to college or the teachers are fired?

Oh wow. You can throw money at the problem Craig. In this case, it is far in excess of your "5000" dollars. Far.

Total cost for this:
76 million dollars a year.
I have no idea how they got the 5000 dollars per kid per year.

 

[Toastedlightly]

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5914322n

For other who want to watch the video.

 

[Craig234]

Part of school funding does come from parental support. Who helps vote on, campaign for, and pass the tax increases that school districts want? Parents need to care.

When I was a kid, most of my learning was done at home with the support of my parents. Parental support is absolutely required to be raised as a successful person.

Watching the video now. Will report.

Thoughts on the video:

6 students to 1 teacher!?
On site medical clinic!?
ALL kids go to college or the teachers are fired?

Oh wow. You can throw money at the problem Craig.

Rather than respond to your post now, I want to say what a pleasant surprise it is you are watching the video, and to not there was an addition to my post.

But I will make one comment - you seem to be missing why I referenced this video - it's to dispell the racism of people who say 'doen't matter what's done, those back kids are not going to do well since their culture is so bad', if they aren't saying even worse based on race. Watch the change in that kid they interviewed years ago and now. It's simply to point out that it's not a race problem, it's an environment problem.

Just as armchair posters can comment with expertise on why foreign people and cultures do what they do with terrible ignorance, they do the same about urban black kids they have no experience with.

By pointing this out, I'm tring to redirect the topic from idiotic racist comments to the relevant question of what if anything can be done to help the kids' environement.

We can't easily change the effects caused by centuries of racism, can't easily cure the poverty (though we should work on that too), but it's more practical to look at how to give them better education.

 

[F1N3ST]

It's their "culture" probably is the biggest issue. And, living near Detroit schools, I hear a lot on the news about kids bringing guns, knives etc to school, so they have been spending money on metal detectors instead of new books, teachers etc. Plus, drugs and everything like that associated with Detroit make for an environment almost impossible to learn in I would assume. A couple months ago, some kids were shot at a bus stop (gang violence), makes me not want to go to school D: but yeah, gangs are also a pretty big issue...

 

[Toastedlightly]

Rather than respond to your post now, I want to say what a pleasant surprise it is you are watching the video, and to not there was an addition to my post.

But I will make one comment - you seem to be missing why I referenced this video - it's to dispell the racism of people who say 'doen't matter what's done, those back kids are not going to do well since their culture is so bad', if they aren't saying even worse based on race. Watch the change in that kid they interviewed years ago and now. It's simply to point out that it's not a race problem, it's an environment problem.

Just as armchair posters can comment with expertise on why foreign people and cultures do what they do with terrible ignorance, they do the same about urban black kids they have no experience with.

By pointing this out, I'm tring to redirect the topic from idiotic racist comments to the relevant question of what if anything can be done to help the kids' environement.

We can't easily change the effects caused by centuries of racism, can't easily cure the poverty (though we should work on that too), but it's more practical to look at how to give them better education.

My response is parents are the ones who make up the environment. If the parents don't value education, how can we expect these values to be instilled in their children?

It is nice that these kids are doing so well, but at what price? The parents in the video seemed to see this as their child's only way out. They see their involvement (granted, this is from a short 15 minute video) as inconsequential.

Who cares what I do as long as my child gets in? It is exemplified by the parents asking Canada what they should do now that he has condemned their child to a worse life.

Now this is where it comes back to race (unfortunately). It seems more prevalent among blacks to disregard the virtues of education and instead place other values higher on the list, ones which may not assist the child to success in life (as measured by a societal whole, not the fragment of society which prizes that value).

 

[Craig234]

You're so cute.

You're one of the racist idiots who don't know what the race cad is.

You use the phrase to refer to any reference to race to critcize your statements no matter how valid.

By doing so, you fail to address the real race issues, and continue your ignorant racism.

The phrase 'the race card' refers only to one type of use of race in a discussion - the cynical misuse of race when it doesn't apply, by exploiting people's sensitivity to it.

So if a black person does badly in a job for reasons having nothing to do with their race, but when punished claims the reason was racism when it wasn't, that's "playing the race card".

You just idiotically parrot the phrase the moment race is raised, without any measure of how valid the argument is.Your rock misses you.

 

[Craig234]

My response is parents are the ones who make up the environment. If the parents don't value education, how can we expect these values to be instilled in their children?

Give me a break. You saw the hundreds of parents who were trying to get their kids in the school - these poor, uneucated people are not in much position to fix the issue alone.

This is part of the informationm gap I'm referring to when people who had a lot better system and situation sit back and point fingers at the poor.

Whites benefit generally from a better situation, a better system, the advantage of generations of not being held back by racist policies, and you ignore that no matter how many times I mention it.

It is nice that these kids are doing so well, but at what price?

$5,000 a year. Could it much cllearer when they talk about how cheap that is compared to not doing it?

During the last century we did a lot of investing for whites but not as much for blacks.

The parents in the video seemed to see this as their child's only way out. They see their involvement (granted, this is from a short 15 minute video) as inconsequential.

Yes, poor, poorly educated parents aren't able to all homeschool their kids as the solution. You are surprised by this?

Who cares what I do as long as my child gets in? It is exemplified by the parents asking Canada what they should do now that he has condemned their child to a worse life.

Now this is where it comes back to race (unfortunately). It seems more prevalent among blacks to disregard the virtues of education and instead place other values higher on the list, ones which may not assist the child to success in life (as measured by a societal whole, not the fragment of society which prizes that value).

I'd like to put you in the situation of a poor black parent, culturally, geographically, education, for a bit and then let you post again. Stop pointing fingfers and try to understand the situation a bit and what helps.

Yes, poor Asians on average seem to do better than poor blacks at providing one part of the environment for their children to get better educations. That's not an answer - 'blacks are just worse' - it's a question - 'why is that and what can help with it'? The answer IMO includes the effects of the long history of cultural discsimination that whites tend not to have a clue about. It's not normally part of what they're taught, of the normal political debate, and so they don't get it.

But again, I appreciate you watching the video at all, it does help the discussion.

 

[umbrella39]

The schools are like that because no one in the community cared enough to fix them. Everyone knows this.

Fixed for you. There is an effort right now in Detroit to fix things. They had to cut off the head first (Kwami) and work down from there which they now are. Most of the dead weight from city council is finally gone after this past election. As far as the schools go, Robert Bobb is finally starting to shake things up. At least they are trying now which is a refreshing but it is going to take a long, long time and a massive economic recovery combined with a concerted community effort to pull this part of the country out of the shit hole.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Give me a break. You saw the hundreds of parents who were trying to get their kids in the school - these poor, uneucated people are not in much position to fix the issue alone.

My parents are not engineers. My mom is a house-wife turned cafeteria cook and my father was a car salesman. By the time I was in 6th grade I was doing school work above my parent's level.

The way they helped me was by encouraging me. That is how the culture can change. More parental encouragement (not helicopter parents, that is the other extreme)


This is part of the informationm gap I'm referring to when people who had a lot better system and situation sit back and point fingers at the poor.

Whites benefit generally from a better situation, a better system, the advantage of generations of not being held back by racist policies, and you ignore that no matter how many times I mention it.

And the way that will change is a change in culture surrounding education and that needs to be done by those who have the most face-time with the students, by those that have the power to encourage, by those who are raising them.



$5,000 a year. Could it much cllearer when they talk about how cheap that is compared to not doing it?

During the last century we did a lot of investing for whites but not as much for blacks.

I am not sure where 5000 per student comes from. I saw $76000000 a year total funding. With 10,000 students (which I believe was the figured number that they wish to cater to) that comes out to around $7600 per student, which is awfully close to my former districts $8500 per year (2005-2006) per student. This is done on a total funding basis for our disctrict.

However, I notice that they had ~250 spots open for kindergarten. That places the total students at ~3250 (assuming all class sizes are the same). Now taking a look at that funding, 76000000 / 3250 = ~$23,000 dollars per student per year. Now I know not all of that may go directly into the students, but I am using the same metrics as my former school district.

Yes, poor, poorly educated parents aren't able to all homeschool their kids as the solution. You are surprised by this?

Read above. I was not homeschooled. I was taught the value of being educated. The prospects of doing well in school. These are the topics parents can teach about.

I'd like to put you in the situation of a poor black parent, culturally, geographically, education, for a bit and then let you post again. Stop pointing fingfers and try to understand the situation a bit and what helps.

I am understanding the situation. I am looking at it from a "how do we fix this" not a "how much pity do we need" way. Bill Cosby agrees with my sentiment even.

Yes, poor Asians on average seem to do better than poor blacks at providing one part of the environment for their children to get better educations. That's not an answer - 'blacks are just worse' - it's a question - 'why is that and what can help with it'? The answer IMO includes the effects of the long history of cultural discsimination that whites tend not to have a clue about. It's not normally part of what they're taught, of the normal political debate, and so they don't get it.

Once again, the cultural attitudes of blacks towards education needs to improve if we wish to see an improvement in the metrics of their eduction

But again, I appreciate you watching the video at all, it does help the discussion.

Commented

 

[Craig234]

Commented

I mention the effect of several generations of racism - denied education, employment, wealth, segregation - on a group, and you respond that you think it's the same as having your parents who weren't educated tell you the value. That tells me you - understandably - really don't understand the 'cultural' issues you reference.

Saying 'the culture needs to improve' is like saying 'the problem with hunger is more food is needed'.

Ya, great, now do you have any idea how to do that? This is why I try to say to non-blacks - as I have had to get somke understanding - to try to recognize you don't likely understand some things.

And it's all too easy because of that to jump to racist or hopeless or finger-pointing or other unhelpful conclusions. And that's not to say that blacks aren't their own worst enemies a lot of the time too.

The $5000 figure was from the video, if I recall its context correctly. But again the amount isn't important to the point I was making that it's not some racist inherent problem.

This is what ytou hear from a lot on the right, the 'you can't improve it by throwing money at it' line. It's possible to spend the money badly - but when do we see great improvement without the money?

Don't make too much of the video clip, it has some useful info but it's not the main answer to the issue.

It's just important to recognize that we need to better understand what the challenges are and how to address them better. Well resourced schools with a good approach are important for that.

It's all too easy for the majority to brush off the issue with a cliche about why you can't do anything and ignore it. Someone's gotta clean the toilets seems to be the message.

 

[Toastedlightly]

I mention the effect of several generations of racism - denied education, employment, wealth, segregation - on a group, and you respond that you think it's the same as having your parents who weren't educated tell you the value. That tells me you - understandably - really don't understand the 'cultural' issues you reference.

Saying 'the culture needs to improve' is like saying 'the problem with hunger is more food is needed'.

Ya, great, now do you have any idea how to do that? This is why I try to say to non-blacks - as I have had to get somke understanding - to try to recognize you don't likely understand some things.

And it's all too easy because of that to jump to racist or hopeless or finger-pointing or other unhelpful conclusions. And that's not to say that blacks aren't their own worst enemies a lot of the time too.

The $5000 figure was from the video, if I recall its context correctly. But again the amount isn't important to the point I was making that it's not some racist inherent problem.

This is what ytou hear from a lot on the right, the 'you can't improve it by throwing money at it' line. It's possible to spend the money badly - but when do we see great improvement without the money?

Don't make too much of the video clip, it has some useful info but it's not the main answer to the issue.

It's just important to recognize that we need to better understand what the challenges are and how to address them better. Well resourced schools with a good approach are important for that.

It's all too easy for the majority to brush off the issue with a cliche about why you can't do anything and ignore it. Someone's gotta clean the toilets seems to be the message.

What I am implying is that the final step in the solution is more parental involvement. How do we get more parental involvement? I honestly don't know.

Craig, how long can we let people use their race as an excuse? Yes, I understand segregation, racism, and the role it has played. What can I do about it? How can I help people who just want to blame their problems on me without working with me to solve them?