Looks like the Da Vinci Code finally struck a nerve

[DrPizza]

I haven't read it... I quit reading fiction quite a while ago.
Mathematical Mysteries - the Beauty and Magic of Numbers - Clawson... now *that's* a good book.

 

[Ramma2]

One question, is this part true or not?

...Christ wasn't considered divine until the Council of Nicea voted him so in 325 at the behest of the emperor.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Seems like we have quite the anti-Catholic crowd here -- and I've noticed that the vast majority of those people (in my experience) don't know what the Church officially teaches. There's a lot of misinformation tossed around.

Anyway...
link1
link2

There are multiple sides to every story. I wouldn't take everything that Brown says as indisputable fact, but the Church's perspective must be taken with a grain of salt. While the Church will claim that its actions and teachings have been solely motivated by religion and faith, their sphere of influence has been wide-reaching throughout history, and many of their actions were (and still are) politically motivated. It doesn't surprise me that Catholic websites would categorically deny every claim in Brown's books. The Catholic Church has been stubborn since its inception; it maintains the strength of their faith.

I don't think the Church claims that /all/ actions have been motivated by religion and faith -- there have been bad people in the Church too. We're not all perfect.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Ramma2
One question, is this part true or not?

...Christ wasn't considered divine until the Council of Nicea voted him so in 325 at the behest of the emperor.

Clement of Alexandria

"The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning?for he was in God?and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things" (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).

"Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son" (ibid., 10:110:1).



Tertullian

"The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born" (The Flesh of Christ 5:6?7 [A.D. 210]).

"That there are two gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord" (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 216]).



Origen

"Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).



Hippolytus

"Only [God?s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God" (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A.D. 228]).

link

 

[CCCHeel]

One question, is this part true or not?

...Christ wasn't considered divine until the Council of Nicea voted him so in 325 at the behest of the emperor.


No, that is not true. The Council of Nicea was not the first time they ppl sat down and said "Hey, let's make Jesus the Son of God." This council was simply an effort to clear up a lot of misinformation concerning Jesus and Christianity.

 

[sixone]

Hello: does no one understand that this book was published as FICTION????

A very good story, BTW, if you can manage to not get sidetracked by the details.

 

[DainBramaged]

*yawn*

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: sixone
Hello: does no one understand that this book was published as FICTION????

A very good story, BTW, if you can manage to not get sidetracked by the details.

Hello: Do you not understand that many people probably believe that some of it is accurate?

How well do you think a story that portrayed a certain ethnicity in a bad light..then tried to pass it off as 'just fiction'? Would that be a top seller too?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
One question, is this part true or not?

...Christ wasn't considered divine until the Council of Nicea voted him so in 325 at the behest of the emperor.


No, that is not true. The Council of Nicea was not the first time they ppl sat down and said "Hey, let's make Jesus the Son of God." This council was simply an effort to clear up a lot of misinformation concerning Jesus and Christianity.

And mold his image as they saw fit?


When the Priest of the Whore of Babylon start complaining then it might be worth reading.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I read the book. While it's an entertaining story, I found it extremely ignorant of even a basic understanding of Judaism. I attended an Orthodox Rabbincal seminary for 7 years, so I know a thing or two about it. Dan Brown doesn't have a clue. While I'm not as well versed in Christianity and it's dogma, it's safe to assume that he's just as ignorant.

Yeah, he's off on the Christian aspects too. Not sure where he got a lot of his info. I think he just made stuff up to make it fit his story. Pretty scary that people are taking this seriously.

However, there is some evidence that Jesus did survive the crucifixion. Was watching a Discovery Channel documentary on it. Pretty interesting, but nothing provable.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
How true. Most of the ppl on these threads have nothing but a visceral hatred towards anything Christian because they 1) know nothing about true Christianianity and 2) are scared little boys searching for fulfillment in life.

This book is dangerous. Dan Brown uses half-truths and outright lies to promote the selling of his book, all the while basing his story on the backdrop of "fact". The danger is that ppl who don't know much about Christianity will be pushed towards believeing the venom his book spouts, even though he does call it a book of fiction. This false information is only exacerbated by the ignorance of most of the people reading this book (and consequently the ignorance of most of these Christian-bashers on this thread).

Revelation does talk about the teachings of "false prophets" in the End Days, does it not? I think it would be a reasonable assessment, to toss this "work of 'fiction'" into that pile as well.

 

[torpid]

Why would you write a mystery book based on real events where the mystery unfolding is uncovering the truth about real events and then make up everything? No one would do that intentionally, it would be ridiculous. I could write a mystery about who really shot JFK and in it I could make the ultimate revelation that abe lincoln was a circus clown in the 1950's who conspired with genghis khan, who was born in 1928.

 

[jjzelinski]

Well technically the end of the world occured on january 1st 2000 on the gregorian calender. I have the bomb shelter with the stockpiles of biblical literature, cream of mushroom soup, and assault rifles to prove it. Or maybe it was 1997...

Ok so we're still waiting for the end of the world, right?

 

[RelaxTheMind]

hmm telling you to not read a stupid book because they are alredy brainwashed by a far more spread stupid book.

if u come out with what u feel is a better outlook on life. the book did no harm.

i would get mad too if i had 1000s of people paying for my church and producing lots of hot young alter boys, then one day some guy showed them a book that told them otherwise...

Note: I probably know more about christianity than most every one of you. the bible was a guide not a rule book. If anything Jesus was a great wise man, not anyones foresaken personal ruler. The 10(,000,000) Commandments? They have been twisted so far that they need a mini government just to keep up with it. Everyone knows whats right and whats wrong, thats basically all it comes down to in the end.

 

[jjzelinski]

You're going to hell and I'm going to heaven.

 

[hpkeeper]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I read the book. While it's an entertaining story, I found it extremely ignorant of even a basic understanding of Judaism. I attended an Orthodox Rabbincal seminary for 7 years, so I know a thing or two about it. Dan Brown doesn't have a clue. While I'm not as well versed in Christianity and it's dogma, it's safe to assume that he's just as ignorant.

You know what fiction is, right?

Yes. But he bases it on "facts". The so-called facts that he uses in this work of fiction is fiction itself.

So what? Michael Moore makes movies based on "facts" too... but everyone believes him... because this book is semi-religion based, that makes it more obtuse than a movie on politics?

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
hmm telling you to not read a stupid book because they are alredy brainwashed by a far more spread stupid book.

if u come out with what u feel is a better outlook on life. the book did no harm.

i would get mad too if i had 1000s of people paying for my church and producing lots of hot young alter boys, then one day some guy showed them a book that told them otherwise...

Note: I probably know more about christianity than most every one of you. the bible was a guide not a rule book. If anything Jesus was a great wise man, not anyones foresaken personal ruler. The 10(,000,000) Commandments? They have been twisted so far that they need a mini government just to keep up with it. Everyone knows whats right and whats wrong, thats basically all it comes down to in the end.

Well if we grant that you actually know more about christianity than everyone here, which itself is highly doubtful, based on that last statement at the end, I think we can safely say you know less about human kind than everyone else not only here, but on the planet. And I'm including some monkeys here.

 

[tnitsuj]

His other books suck as well factually. Landing an airplane at Bolling air force base?

 

[jjzelinski]

Is it getting hot in here?

 

[hpkeeper]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
hmm telling you to not read a stupid book because they are alredy brainwashed by a far more spread stupid book.

if u come out with what u feel is a better outlook on life. the book did no harm.

i would get mad too if i had 1000s of people paying for my church and producing lots of hot young alter boys, then one day some guy showed them a book that told them otherwise...

Note: I probably know more about christianity than most every one of you. the bible was a guide not a rule book. If anything Jesus was a great wise man, not anyones foresaken personal ruler. The 10(,000,000) Commandments? They have been twisted so far that they need a mini government just to keep up with it. Everyone knows whats right and whats wrong, thats basically all it comes down to in the end.

Well if we grant that you actually know more about christianity than everyone here, which itself is highly doubtful, based on that last statement at the end, I think we can safely say you know less about human kind than everyone else not only here, but on the planet. And I'm including some monkeys here.

Why? I agree with him, most people know what's right and what's wrong... it's just some people are more willing to risk the chance of the consequences, they're just ignorant of the consequences, or the consequences aren't as bad as if they didn't do the wrong thing...

case and point...

a poor person steals a TV to sell for food.

stealing of TV to sell: $150 in back pocket for food
Not stealing TV: Sitting in cardboard box starving

Sure it's wrong, but it's survival.

Do you think he was neglegent of the fact that stealing a TV was wrong? no... the outcome would have been worse had he not stolen the TV. It's basic human instinct to know right from wrong, some people just accept the outcome and roll the dice with them more often than others.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
hmm telling you to not read a stupid book because they are alredy brainwashed by a far more spread stupid book.

if u come out with what u feel is a better outlook on life. the book did no harm.

i would get mad too if i had 1000s of people paying for my church and producing lots of hot young alter boys, then one day some guy showed them a book that told them otherwise...

Note: I probably know more about christianity than most every one of you. the bible was a guide not a rule book. If anything Jesus was a great wise man, not anyones foresaken personal ruler. The 10(,000,000) Commandments? They have been twisted so far that they need a mini government just to keep up with it. Everyone knows whats right and whats wrong, thats basically all it comes down to in the end.

Well if we grant that you actually know more about christianity than everyone here, which itself is highly doubtful, based on that last statement at the end, I think we can safely say you know less about human kind than everyone else not only here, but on the planet. And I'm including some monkeys here.

Why? I agree with him, most people know what's right and what's wrong... it's just some people are more willing to risk the chance of the consequences, they're just ignorant of the consequences, or the consequences aren't as bad as if they didn't do the wrong thing...

case and point...

a poor person steals a TV to sell for food.

stealing of TV to sell: $150 in back pocket for food
Not stealing TV: Sitting in cardboard box starving

Sure it's wrong, but it's survival.

Do you think he was neglegent of the fact that stealing a TV was wrong? no... the outcome would have been worse. It's basic human instinct to know right from wrong, some people just accept the outcome and roll the dice with them more often than others.

Most people <> everyone.

Edit: and you would be the second most clueless person about humankind if you think right vs wrong is something innate in human nature.

 

[RelaxTheMind]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
hmm telling you to not read a stupid book because they are alredy brainwashed by a far more spread stupid book.

if u come out with what u feel is a better outlook on life. the book did no harm.

i would get mad too if i had 1000s of people paying for my church and producing lots of hot young alter boys, then one day some guy showed them a book that told them otherwise...

Note: I probably know more about christianity than most every one of you. the bible was a guide not a rule book. If anything Jesus was a great wise man, not anyones foresaken personal ruler. The 10(,000,000) Commandments? They have been twisted so far that they need a mini government just to keep up with it. Everyone knows whats right and whats wrong, thats basically all it comes down to in the end.

Well if we grant that you actually know more about christianity than everyone here, which itself is highly doubtful, based on that last statement at the end, I think we can safely say you know less about human kind than everyone else not only here, but on the planet. And I'm including some monkeys here.

well if you dont know whats right or wrong, your parents/guardians did something wrong or you specifically choose to do what you want. And if in the "christian" sense, it is you who has to let Him into your life in the first place.

i know less about human kind? well if you say so. If you cant get any idea of whats right from wrong on your own you are say we have less instinct than a "monkey". "monkeys" are not influenced by religion yet they seem to live out long fullfiling lives. so your saying humans are inferior to monkeys? hmm...your point?

keep it coming. i have many years of theology and seminary school under my belt. might as well put it to use.

 

[Feldenak]

Well, you guys have proved that Cardinal right in one thing...

Asked about commentary that the book?s success is ?only further proof of the fact that anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice,? the cardinal exclaimed. ?It?s the truth.?
?There?s a great anti-Catholic prejudice,? Bertone said. ?I ask myself if a similar book was written, full of lies about Buddha, Mohammed, or, even, for example, if a novel came out which manipulated all the history of the Holocaust or of the Shoah, what would have happened??

Personally, I'm not a big fan of organized religion but the degree to which some of you appear to hate the Catholic Church makes me think some of you need to aim that fault-finding magnifying glass at yourself.

 

[hpkeeper]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
hmm telling you to not read a stupid book because they are alredy brainwashed by a far more spread stupid book.

if u come out with what u feel is a better outlook on life. the book did no harm.

i would get mad too if i had 1000s of people paying for my church and producing lots of hot young alter boys, then one day some guy showed them a book that told them otherwise...

Note: I probably know more about christianity than most every one of you. the bible was a guide not a rule book. If anything Jesus was a great wise man, not anyones foresaken personal ruler. The 10(,000,000) Commandments? They have been twisted so far that they need a mini government just to keep up with it. Everyone knows whats right and whats wrong, thats basically all it comes down to in the end.

Well if we grant that you actually know more about christianity than everyone here, which itself is highly doubtful, based on that last statement at the end, I think we can safely say you know less about human kind than everyone else not only here, but on the planet. And I'm including some monkeys here.

Why? I agree with him, most people know what's right and what's wrong... it's just some people are more willing to risk the chance of the consequences, they're just ignorant of the consequences, or the consequences aren't as bad as if they didn't do the wrong thing...

case and point...

a poor person steals a TV to sell for food.

stealing of TV to sell: $150 in back pocket for food
Not stealing TV: Sitting in cardboard box starving

Sure it's wrong, but it's survival.

Do you think he was neglegent of the fact that stealing a TV was wrong? no... the outcome would have been worse. It's basic human instinct to know right from wrong, some people just accept the outcome and roll the dice with them more often than others.

Most people <> everyone.

Edit: and you would be the second most clueless person about humankind if you think right vs wrong is something innate in human nature.

Yeah, I might be, but at least I'm open minded to it where as I could be a religious zealot like yourself following leaders that can't see beyond their hand as far as a lifestyle outside of an Orthodox christianity because all they've ever known of a life is the Vatican bubble of religion that they reside in. They've only read one book and we know what it is... There are hundreds of books on religion and the fallacies of it... the only reason that this one is getting any attention is because of it's popularity. So obviously we have to tone it down it would be bad for the church if we let this go on... Fvck the church.

The church still thinks it has the power it had during the crusades. If you want to talk about who knows what about humankind, you should write to the cardinal about the influence he has, and that for the most part (at least on this forum) and tell him that ALL human kind don't like being told they are wrong. The mere fact that you corrected him should get the point across. So why don't you stop wasting your time taking shots at me and torpid, stop wasting your time telling us who's right and wrong unless you feel like explain to us what you thing is innate to human nature once you get past the language barrier.

edit: Note: I don't know a lot about religion, nor have claimed to know, but the reason is, is because I know all that I want to know. *spits on topic*

 

[Joemonkey]

there is good reason for men of science to hate the catholic church. we could all have our own hoverbikes by now if not for them...