Looks like godless Americans will be voting for Kerry

[judasmachine]

Muhahahaha, this satanist, and his coven of witches will definatley be voting for Kerry. booooo scary liberal satanists.......oooohhh are ya scared? you damn better should be.

BTW it only asked if you were godless, that excludes Hindus, Muslims, Christians, some Buddhists, etc. You can have a god and not be religious, and you can be religious without having a god....... anyway very scientific that is..............idiots.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I was under the assumption that people attack Bush and his religion because of his statements proclaiming that he speaks to God and attacked because God told him to.

Speaking to God is called prayer. A lot of people who have faith do it.

In fact, according to their statements, Kerry and Edwards appear to speak to God too.

Speaking TO God is one thing, but if God Speaks back, well, that's something else entirely.

And you believe that because?

1) There are the (possible)Psychiatric issues

2) There are the Biblical verification of Authenticity issues

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I never claimed that America is righteous.

The vast majority of Americans call themselves "Christians" and in the last presidential election, the vote was split.

Doesn't that suggest that Christians don't vote in a bloc?

No. The vast majority of Americans have Christian or Catholic heritages - this is monumentally different from being practicing Christians that vote according to their faith.

Try again. 🙂

 

[m316foley]

Duh. This vote is nothing new. Most religious Christian fanatics (don't flame - I'm a Christian, I just don't take it to a psychotic level) vote republican because the republicans tend to vote against Abortion and Gay & Lesbian rights. Sadly, that alone can sometimes sway their vote.

 

[catnap1972]

You people have it all wrong

Bush isn't speaking to God...he IS God!

:laugh:

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: cougarls88
You people have it all wrong

Bush isn't speaking to God...he IS God!

:laugh:

no, he's the internet, remember?

"Thou shalt not vote for the gay-bashing biggot Bush even if you feel the Iraqui war is justified."
STFU 3:9

Seriously though, you can't have a president passing laws that are religious based. I'm a devout Christian and you either have seperation of church and state or you don't. The courts say you DO have seperation, the Bible says God "gave you the law and the land" so either way you cut the cake religious or not religious laws aren't ok.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I never claimed that America is righteous.

The vast majority of Americans call themselves "Christians" and in the last presidential election, the vote was split.

Doesn't that suggest that Christians don't vote in a bloc?

No. The vast majority of Americans have Christian or Catholic heritages - this is monumentally different from being practicing Christians that vote according to their faith.

Try again. 🙂

Huh, so you expect people to vote contrary to their beliefs?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I never claimed that America is righteous.

The vast majority of Americans call themselves "Christians" and in the last presidential election, the vote was split.

Doesn't that suggest that Christians don't vote in a bloc?

No. The vast majority of Americans have Christian or Catholic heritages - this is monumentally different from being practicing Christians that vote according to their faith.

Try again. 🙂

Huh, so you expect people to vote contrary to their beliefs?

Dude - you really need to read between the lines. Most people who have some association either by heritage or some sort of weak shallow social association to Christianity really are not *practicing* Christians - in other words - their belief system is formed based upon life experiences and conclusions which are not Bibically sound.

This is why the Church - the one single social entity which can actually make a difference in this world - have failed - non-Christians see the hypocrisy and are turned away from it - we're not setting the right examples for mankind. When self-proclaimed Christians act and vote like non-Christians, the non-Christians see no reason to follow.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I never claimed that America is righteous.

The vast majority of Americans call themselves "Christians" and in the last presidential election, the vote was split.

Doesn't that suggest that Christians don't vote in a bloc?

No. The vast majority of Americans have Christian or Catholic heritages - this is monumentally different from being practicing Christians that vote according to their faith.

Try again. 🙂

Huh, so you expect people to vote contrary to their beliefs?

Dude - you really need to read between the lines. Most people who have some association either by heritage or some sort of weak shallow social association to Christianity really are not *practicing* Christians - in other words - their belief system is formed based upon life experiences and conclusions which are not Bibically sound.

This is why the Church - the one single social entity which can actually make a difference in this world - have failed - non-Christians see the hypocrisy and are turned away from it - we're not setting the right examples for mankind. When self-proclaimed Christians act and vote like non-Christians, the non-Christians see no reason to follow.

If you are looking for hypocrisy, you are going to find it. Man is inherently flawed as are all human institutions, including churches.

That didn't stop me from becoming a Christian (in the Biblical, not the cultural sense) because I didn't look towards man but to God's word.

Anyway, getting back to the topic, why do you think many "practicing" Christians vote conservative/republican and not liberal/democrat?

 

[Shuxclams]

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity. ~ John Adams

Soon after I had published the pamphlet Common Sense, in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion. The adulterous connection of church and state, wherever it had taken place, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, had so effectually prohibited by pains and penalties, every discussion upon established creeds, and upon first principles of religion, that until the system of government should be changed, those subjects could not be brought fairly and openly before the world; but that whenever this should be done, a revolution in the system of religion would follow. Human inventions and priestcraft would be detected; and man would return to the pure, unmixed and unadulterated belief of one God, and no more.

Every national church or religion has established itself by pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet, as if the way to God was not open to every man alike.

Each of those churches show certain books, which they call revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say, that their word of God was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say, that their word of God came by divine inspiration: and the Turks say, that their word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from Heaven. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all. ~ Thomas Paine

In a free government, the security for civil rights must be the same as that for religious rights. It consists in the one case in the multiplicity of interests, and in the other in the multiplicity of sects. ~ Alexander Hamilton

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. ~ Thomas Jefferson

The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma. ~ Abraham Lincoln

We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, that religion, or the duty we owe our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. ~ James Madison

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. ~ George Washington

SHUX

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
it's sad that people place so much faith in the Bible, as if it were actually written or inspired by God.

it's sad people have so much faith there is a God....

 

[Riprorin]

I'm not sure what the point was of quoting the founding fathers, but just for balance let's look at what else George Washington had to say:

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.?
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

?The name of American, belongs to you?[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.?
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796 | photo of farewell address

What others had to say about him:

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." {Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

?He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.?
{Quote by John Marshall [Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice]}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.?
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

?O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm not sure what the point was of quoting the founding fathers, but just for balance let's look at what else George Washington had to say:

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.?
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

?The name of American, belongs to you?[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.?
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796 | photo of farewell address

What others had to say about him:

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." {Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

?He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.?
{Quote by John Marshall [Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice]}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.?
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

?O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

To balance things out further, those were his personal beliefs and not how he and others structured the government to work.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Wow, more atheists are voting for Badnarik than are voting for Bush.

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm not sure what the point was of quoting the founding fathers, but just for balance let's look at what else George Washington had to say:

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.?
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

?The name of American, belongs to you?[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.?
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796 | photo of farewell address

What others had to say about him:

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." {Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

?He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.?
{Quote by John Marshall [Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice]}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.?
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

?O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

To balance things out further, those were his personal beliefs and not how he and others structured the government to work.

That is the point. Just because a politician has a personal belief it doesnt mean it is to be OUR belief... which is just what the framers wanted. Riprorin, you would be better served to read more about John Adams and his beliefs.







SHUX

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm not sure what the point was of quoting the founding fathers, but just for balance let's look at what else George Washington had to say:

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.?
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

?The name of American, belongs to you?[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.?
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796 | photo of farewell address

What others had to say about him:

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." {Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

?He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.?
{Quote by John Marshall [Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice]}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.?
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

?O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

To balance things out further, those were his personal beliefs and not how he and others structured the government to work.

That is the point. Just because a politician has a personal belief it doesnt mean it is to be OUR belief...

SHUX

I don't think too many people will argue with that.

 

[Riprorin]

In his personal diary, on February 22, 1756, John Adams wrote::

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God ? What a Utopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm not sure what the point was of quoting the founding fathers, but just for balance let's look at what else George Washington had to say:

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.?
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

?The name of American, belongs to you?[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.?
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796 | photo of farewell address

What others had to say about him:

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." {Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

?He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.?
{Quote by John Marshall [Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice]}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.?
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

?O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

To balance things out further, those were his personal beliefs and not how he and others structured the government to work.

That is the point. Just because a politician has a personal belief it doesnt mean it is to be OUR belief...

SHUX

I don't think too many people will argue with that.

Then why do they? Why do the "social morality police" (The Far right) consitintantly want to argue about this?




SHUX

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm not sure what the point was of quoting the founding fathers, but just for balance let's look at what else George Washington had to say:

?What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.?
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

?The name of American, belongs to you?[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.?
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796 | photo of farewell address

What others had to say about him:

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], ?Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." {Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

?He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.?
{Quote by John Marshall [Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice]}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.?
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

?O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.?
? I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.?

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

To balance things out further, those were his personal beliefs and not how he and others structured the government to work.

That is the point. Just because a politician has a personal belief it doesnt mean it is to be OUR belief...

SHUX

I don't think too many people will argue with that.

Then why do they? Why do the "social morality police" (The Far right) consitintantly want to argue about this?

SHUX

What politician has told you what your religious beliefs should be?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
In his personal diary, on February 22, 1756, John Adams wrote::

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God ? What a Utopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

Too bad the Constitution doesn't agree.

<---------------------Godless American who will be voting for Kerry.

 

[Shuxclams]

Now read what was written about and for our country rather than his personal convictions...... He was a very strong believer in Christ and the Bible, yet was still able to make the right choice in making sure Religion was kept far from Goverment.

Riprorin, your welcome. Now you have a real Jesus freak to quote... At least the well learned and wise will know that your quoting someone who felt very strongly about seperation of church and state...... I just hope the rest of the "lesser edjurcated folk" understand who and what they arte quoting.













SHUX

 

[Riprorin]

And what about John Adams' son, John Quincy Adams:

America's Chrisitan Rulers: John Quincy Adams
John Quincy Adams was born in Braintree, now Quincy, Massachusetts, the son of John Adams, the second President of the United States. On March 4th 1825, he was inaugurated as President and served one term. His inaugural address closed with these words:

"Knowing that 'except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain,' with fervent supplications for His favor, to His overruling providence I commit, with humble, but fearless confidence, my own fate, and the future destinies of my country."

Known as a great orator, he was a popular speaker in many places. He owed his influence, not to his manner, presence or pleasing tones, but to the fact that what he said was worth hearing. When it was feared that Christian influence was waning in New England, he prepared a lecture on Truth, which he delivered in many places. The premise was: "A man to be a Christian must believe in God, in the Bible, in the Divinity of the Savior's mission, and in a future state of rewards and punishments."

Adams wrote a series of letters to his son on "The Bible and its Teachings" which were published in the New York Tribune, in which he stated: "I have myself for many years made it a practice to read through the Bible once every year. I have always endeavored to read it with the same spirit and temper of mind which I now recommend to you; that is, with the intention and desire that it contribute to my advancement in wisdom and virtue ... My custom is, to read four or five chapters every morning, immediately after rising form my bed. It employs about an hour of my time, and seems to me the most suitable manner of beginning the day."

John Quincy Adams was the only President to have ever been elected to serve as a congressman after his term as President was completed. In being nominated for this position he said: "Not in my opinion would an ex-President of the United States be degraded by serving as a selectman of his town, if elevated thereto by the people."

During his time of service as a Representative from Massachusetts he presented petitions for the abolition of slavery to Congress. On another occasion, he presented a petition against the annexation of Texas as a slave state, which was signed by several women. When these women were rebuked by Representative Howard from Maryland for turning from their domestic duties, Adams countered:

"Are women to have no opinions or actions on subjects relating to the general welfare? Where did the gentleman get this principle? Did he find it in the sacred history (the Bible) - in the language of Miriam the prophetess, in one of the noblest and most sublime songs of triumph that ever met the human eye or ear? Did the gentleman never hear of Deborah, to whom the children of Israel came up for judgment? Has he forgotten the deed of Jael, who slew the dreaded enemy of her country? Has he forgotten Esther, who by her petition saved her people and her country?"

John Quincy Adams died in the Speaker's room in Washington on February 23, 1848, while serving his last term as Representative. His last words were: "This is the last of earth. I am content."

Adapted from American Christian Rulers, Rev. Edward J. Gidding (New York: Bromfield &amp; Company, 1890) pp. 6-13.

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
And what about John Adams' son, John Quincy Adams:

America's Chrisitan Rulers: John Quincy Adams
John Quincy Adams was born in Braintree, now Quincy, Massachusetts, the son of John Adams, the second President of the United States. On March 4th 1825, he was inaugurated as President and served one term. His inaugural address closed with these words:

"Knowing that 'except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain,' with fervent supplications for His favor, to His overruling providence I commit, with humble, but fearless confidence, my own fate, and the future destinies of my country."

Known as a great orator, he was a popular speaker in many places. He owed his influence, not to his manner, presence or pleasing tones, but to the fact that what he said was worth hearing. When it was feared that Christian influence was waning in New England, he prepared a lecture on Truth, which he delivered in many places. The premise was: "A man to be a Christian must believe in God, in the Bible, in the Divinity of the Savior's mission, and in a future state of rewards and punishments."

Adams wrote a series of letters to his son on "The Bible and its Teachings" which were published in the New York Tribune, in which he stated: "I have myself for many years made it a practice to read through the Bible once every year. I have always endeavored to read it with the same spirit and temper of mind which I now recommend to you; that is, with the intention and desire that it contribute to my advancement in wisdom and virtue ... My custom is, to read four or five chapters every morning, immediately after rising form my bed. It employs about an hour of my time, and seems to me the most suitable manner of beginning the day."

John Quincy Adams was the only President to have ever been elected to serve as a congressman after his term as President was completed. In being nominated for this position he said: "Not in my opinion would an ex-President of the United States be degraded by serving as a selectman of his town, if elevated thereto by the people."

During his time of service as a Representative from Massachusetts he presented petitions for the abolition of slavery to Congress. On another occasion, he presented a petition against the annexation of Texas as a slave state, which was signed by several women. When these women were rebuked by Representative Howard from Maryland for turning from their domestic duties, Adams countered:

"Are women to have no opinions or actions on subjects relating to the general welfare? Where did the gentleman get this principle? Did he find it in the sacred history (the Bible) - in the language of Miriam the prophetess, in one of the noblest and most sublime songs of triumph that ever met the human eye or ear? Did the gentleman never hear of Deborah, to whom the children of Israel came up for judgment? Has he forgotten the deed of Jael, who slew the dreaded enemy of her country? Has he forgotten Esther, who by her petition saved her people and her country?"

John Quincy Adams died in the Speaker's room in Washington on February 23, 1848, while serving his last term as Representative. His last words were: "This is the last of earth. I am content."

Adapted from American Christian Rulers, Rev. Edward J. Gidding (New York: Bromfield &amp; Company, 1890) pp. 6-13.

SPUN - I offered you a Framer without spin, I would appreciate the same in return. The same could be written for a few more including Benjamin Franklin, but that is irrelevent to the point I presented.







SHUX

 

[Riprorin]

Shux, I don't know anyone who is against the separation of church and state. The issue is what does the separation of church and state really mean.

I think that it's fairly clear though that founding fathers had a different view than the ACLU and most liberals today.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: busmaster11
This is hilarious. I'm sure all you arrogant neocons would just love to perpetuate this same misconception. If any of you "Christians" actually cared to read the Gospel I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that Jesus would be a republican (though I'd admit he'd be too disgusted to be either).

Wow, this post is a bolt out of the blue. Can you explain how it relates to the topic?

Religion and politics. Done.