Looking for recommendations: 24" IPS 8 bit monitor

[Ajay]

I do, and I would, but it's $70 more Amazon right now. I used to go mainly with Newegg, but they've gotten kind of lame, so I go with Amazon unless their price s*cks. Hmm, don't know if they'd price match???

Doh! Need to put my reading glasses on or something, they are about the same price.

 

[blackened23]

If you can find a PLS monitor in a similar price range, it is something to consider. I've viewed several PLS monitors, and in my opinion it's basically identical to IPS (in terms of viewing angles) with slightly better black levels. Mind you, the black levels aren't as good as VA (VA has it's own problems as TN does...) but it is something to consider.

In fact, I would say that the PLS samsung S27B970D is the hands down the best 2560x1440 monitor i've ever seen. By a mile. But, I know you're not looking for a WQHD 27 incher....Anyway - IIRC, both Asus and Samsung have 24 inch PLS monitors, 8 bit, available. One advantage they have is that they used semi-glossy matte as compared to the full matte used on 2010-2012 model Dell screens, you'll find that the full matte is much thicker and text / colors will not be as vibrant as they would with semi glossy matte.

Edit: another note about Dell screens - all of their 2013 model screens are using the better semi glossy matte. That includes the 2413, 2713HM, 2713H, and u3014. All of the 2012 and prior models are using full, thick matte (which is worse). Actually, nearly all 2012 and prior IPS models use full matte, but LG is only producing semi glossy panels now. So, that's another purchasing data point for you. I think semi glossy is just way, way better. Text on white backgrounds is significantly sharper and easier to read on a semi glossy anti-reflective screen as compared to full matte.

 

[Avalon]

If you can handle 6bit + FRC, the U2412m is tough to beat. Got mine on sale for $290, and it kicks ass. Panel on mine is quite uniform and there is little to no bleeding, but YMMV. Great angles and picture quality, though. Very low input lag, too.

 

[Ajay]

Edit: another note about Dell screens - all of their 2013 model screens are using the better semi glossy matte. That includes the 2413, 2713HM, 2713H, and u3014. All of the 2012 and prior models are using full, thick matte (which is worse). Actually, nearly all 2012 and prior IPS models use full matte, but LG is only producing semi glossy panels now. So, that's another purchasing data point for you. I think semi glossy is just way, way better. Text on white backgrounds is significantly sharper and easier to read on a semi glossy anti-reflective screen as compared to full matte.

Thanks for the input, especially about the heavy AG on pre-2012 Dell's, that would have been annoying. Now I just need to find a good 24" PLS with low latency (Class 1 by TFTCentral standards). Geez, it was easy to buy an LCD monitor 5 years ago!

 

[Phynaz]

I do, and I would, but it's $70 more Amazon right now. I used to go mainly with Newegg, but they've gotten kind of lame, so I go with Amazon unless their price s*cks. Hmm, don't know if they'd price match???

Huh? It's $279.

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraShar...eywords=u2412m

Amazon is pretty good on dropping their prices when Newegg does.

 

[Micrornd]

Find a NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi or 2690WUXi and you'll then know what an IPS panel should really look like.
Compare these 3-4 year old IPS panels to the latest Dells and LGs and you will buy the used NECs rather than the new ones.
Seriously, find one to actually look at in person and you will be convinced. 😉

 

[Ajay]

Find a NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi or 2690WUXi and you'll then know what an IPS panel should really look like.
Compare these 3-4 year old IPS panels to the latest Dells and LGs and you will buy the used NECs rather than the new ones.
Seriously, find one to actually look at in person and you will be convinced. 😉

Yeah, I've heard they look stunning, but aren't good for gaming (and of course they are good $$$$s!).

 

[Ajay]

The price is right and the colors are actually quite good. If all you need is the sRGB color space they work rather well. The biggest trade-off, IMHO, is that as cheaper products they don't have the nice stands and greater functionality of the more expensive 8bit IPS monitors.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5550/dell-u2412m-16-10-ips-without-breaking-the-bank/

Thanks! I checked out Chris Heinonen's review and he wasn't bothered by the AG coating. As he mentioned, it's not like the terrible patterned stuff that's on some 3D monitors. Pushed the button, will be arrive Saturday.

Thanks all!

 

[Micrornd]

Yeah, I've heard they look stunning, but aren't good for gaming (and of course they are good $$$$s!).

I guess it depends on the gaming 😕
My 3 have no problems with Borderlands2, Crysis2 & 3, Bioshock Infinite, Battlefield3, COD Black Ops, etc. (5760x1200 never looked so good)
Absolutely no ghosting or motion blur.
Yes, everyone that sees my 3 seems to use "stunning" in the description sooner or later.
Good used ones are available for under $400 or less on Ebay.
You really have to see one (and see the owner's manual) to really appreciate why they sold for $1500 new and NEC couldn't meet the demand originally 😉
Good Luck to you, which ever you choose :biggrin:

 

[Ajay]

I guess it depends on the gaming 😕

It's not that noticeable in allot of games, but in it is in Tribes:Ascend - which is a very fast game.

 

[Ajay]

Bummer, it'll be here Monday instead - must have been some hold up, I always get stuff from Amazon by the date the list in the order (when it's sold by and shipped by Amazon). Oh well, my Prime account has failed me 😛

 

[pcunite]

It is more than just the screen, the electronics that drive them make a difference. Get a NEC 2490WUXi2 and be done with it.

 

[blackened23]

It is more than just the screen, the electronics that drive them make a difference. Get a NEC 2490WUXi2 and be done with it.

No, that really isn't true. NEC is expensive because it is primarily a Japanese brand (and also manufactured there, which is expensive), and on top of this most NEC monitors are designed exclusively for professional use. On average, NEC IPS panels have worse response times than competing panels, and their support in the states is not easy to deal with. Again, they're primarily a Japanese company so their support infrastructure elsewhere is severely lacking. If you get something like a Dell, you can rest assured always get support when you need it. NEC? May be difficult.

Additionally, the electronics used in NEC monitors is not radically different than what you can obtain in competing panels. In fact, that screen is actually worse in many respects than similarly priced panels from other manufacturers. NEC is truly a brand where you're paying for the name. I'm not saying they're bad, they're good screens - but they're not the best buy in most cases.

 

[ViRGE]

No, that really isn't true. NEC is expensive because it is primarily a Japanese brand (and also manufactured there, which is expensive), and on top of this most NEC monitors are designed exclusively for professional use. On average, NEC IPS panels have worse response times than competing panels, and their support in the states is not easy to deal with. Again, they're primarily a Japanese company so their support infrastructure elsewhere is severely lacking. If you get something like a Dell, you can rest assured always get support when you need it. NEC? May be difficult.

Additionally, the electronics used in NEC monitors is not radically different than what you can obtain in competing panels. In fact, that screen is actually worse in many respects than similarly priced panels from other manufacturers. NEC is truly a brand where you're paying for the name. I'm not saying they're bad, they're good screens - but they're not the best buy in most cases.

Respectfully, you have that almost entirely backwards. NEC uses the same LG panels as everyone else. They differentiate their products in construction, electronics/features, and quality control (i.e. no dead pixels). So you're getting the same panel as say a Dell 2410U, but with electronics optimized for high end usage (programmable ULTs, etc).

 

[Micrornd]

Respectfully, you have that almost entirely backwards. NEC uses the same LG panels as everyone else. They differentiate their products in construction, electronics/features, and quality control (i.e. no dead pixels). So you're getting the same panel as say a Dell 2410U, but with electronics optimized for high end usage (programmable ULTs, etc).

NEC uses the same (e-IPS) LG panels in the current models, but the original WUXi series used the superior LG/Philips (H-IPS) panel.
The originals used the A-TW (Antiglare - True White) polarizer also, while the "2s" use a lesser quality polarizer, like the Dells.
Hence the reason the "2s" were/are cheaper.

Side by side you can see the superior difference to any of the current IPS monitors.
With an 8ms G2G (5ms G2G in overdrive mode), IMO the LG/Philips panels are still superior to current IPS models.
The backlight is kept at a constant temp and it's lumen output is monitored and adjusted to stay constant by the electronics.
The monitor automatically rotates the image when changed from landscape to portrait, and the control buttons in the bezel change function to stay L-R and U-D when the monitor rotates.
With the monitor (less stand) weighing 20lbs they even installed weights in the monitor to balance it on it's stand and make it easy to rotate.

The amount of work and circuitry NEC put into the original WUXi's is amazing.
Until you actually put one side by side with the newer IPS offerings (and I have) you just don't realize how much better they are.

 

[ViRGE]

NEC uses the same (e-IPS) LG panels in the current models, but the original WUXi series used the superior LG/Philips (H-IPS) panel.

I think you're missing the point. The point is that NEC isn't creating their own panels here; they're using the same panels that everyone else has access to. The fact that they switched from one LG panel to another between the 2490WUXi and 2490WUXi2 doesn't change this. The 2490WUXi uses the same panel (LM240WU2) as in the some of the Hazro and Apple monitors of the time, while the 2490WUXi2 uses LM240WU7, which is in HP and Fujitsu monitors too.

Not that you'll get any argument out of me that the H-IPS version was superior. Just that regardless of which version, it's an LG panel that's not unique to NEC.

 

[Ajay]

So far, meh. very very meh. I like the extra space, but my Samsung was just dialed in perfectly from the factory. I'm not liking the look of the Dell at all. I think I'll try the ICC profile @ TFTCentral (if they have one for the 2412m).

 

[Ajay]

Eh, worse D:

 

[24601]

Just buy a korean 27 inch 1440p monitor.

Same price and they are definitely 8-bit panels.

If you only need 1920 x 1200 and are adamant about it, get one without a scaler (they're cheaper) and turn scaling off in your graphics card settings.

Enjoy your massive pseudo-bezel 😀

 

[ViRGE]

So far, meh. very very meh. I like the extra space, but my Samsung was just dialed in perfectly from the factory. I'm not liking the look of the Dell at all. I think I'll try the ICC profile @ TFTCentral (if they have one for the 2412m).

Every monitor is unique and for best results would require its own custom calibration profile. With calibration it should be possible to get the dE's well below 2, according to AT.

Edit: And are you sure your old Samsung was "perfect", or is it just what you were used to? It was a TN monitor; the color accuracy on those is typically atrocious. The 2412M is almost certainly more accurate out of the box. Whether you're used to that accuracy or not is another matter.

 

[Micrornd]

I think you're missing the point. The point is that NEC isn't creating their own panels here; they're using the same panels that everyone else has access to. The fact that they switched from one LG panel to another between the 2490WUXi and 2490WUXi2 doesn't change this. The 2490WUXi uses the same panel (LM240WU2) as in the some of the Hazro and Apple monitors of the time, while the 2490WUXi2 uses LM240WU7, which is in HP and Fujitsu monitors too.

No, I don't think I have.
I don't believe I ever implied NEC made their own panels 😕

But only NEC, Hazro and Apple had access to the LM240WU2 panels, not everyone, that were a joint design effort of LG and Philips to try and produce the best available at the time.
This was by exclusive contract and minimum order.

Yield was low to start with and only NEC used the A-TW polarizer, and all the additional circuitry to fully stabilize the panel and light source for temp and aging, along with each monitor being calibrated individually at the factory.
That is what truly set them apart and made them better (as was decided by most reviewers of the time)

It is also what became their downfall (high cost), as LG decided they could build just as good a panel without Philips' input and cheaper, too.
So this was what everyone switched to on the high end to try and reduce costs.

Of course it was almost universally agreed that that 2nd gen (LM240WU7) wasn't as good as the first (even though NEC used the same circuitry on the 2s to make the panels as stable as the first gen, they never were as sharp or clear in side by side tests).

Not that you'll get any argument out of me that the H-IPS version was superior. Just that regardless of which version, it's an LG panel that's not unique to NEC.

Yes, we do agree that the H-IPS LG/Philips panel is superior :biggrin:

 

[ViRGE]

No, I don't think I have.
I don't believe I ever implied NEC made their own panels 😕

lol, I'm saying you missed the point I was trying to make to blackened.😛 You were trying to argue about which IPS subtype was better when Blackened and I were going over whether NEC made their own panels. You are quite alright my good man.

 

[Phynaz]

So far, meh. very very meh. I like the extra space, but my Samsung was just dialed in perfectly from the factory. I'm not liking the look of the Dell at all. I think I'll try the ICC profile @ TFTCentral (if they have one for the 2412m).

This is what I thought when I first got mine. Then I realized the new monitor was fine, my old monitor was orange.

 

[Ajay]

Every monitor is unique and for best results would require its own custom calibration profile. With calibration it should be possible to get the dE's well below 2, according to AT.

Edit: And are you sure your old Samsung was "perfect", or is it just what you were used to? It was a TN monitor; the color accuracy on those is typically atrocious. The 2412M is almost certainly more accurate out of the box. Whether you're used to that accuracy or not is another matter.

Perfect in that it didn't bother my eyes. It was a 22" IPS monitor (CCFL), it was a tad bit warmer than the Dell, but if I dial the Dell to a similar level (ballpark, it gets a bit muddy). I've decided to keep tweaking it till the end of the week, if I'm not happy by then, I'll decide whether to return it or not.

 

[Ajay]

Ahh okay. So Samsung does make 24" panels, but they're not an IPS technology member. Samsung's technology is PLS (Plane-to-Line Switching), which is supposed to be similar to IPS, but I don't have any experience with it. Their 24" PLS monitor is the S24A850DW.

Interesting. Newegg listed this as a 1080p monitor, but Samsung says 119x12 😕

It's more expensive, but maybe it's like owning a car. I like the Honda accord. My wife own a Camry, it' a fine car an all, but it's just not the same as my Accord. Maybe I'm just a Samsung guy.