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LongHorn = Scarry stuff !

Didn't all the Anti-MS people say the same thing about WinXP? Longhorn seems to be another great OS upgrade for an already great WinXP. I'm looking forward to it.
 
Originally posted by: LostHiWay
Didn't all the Anti-MS people say the same thing about WinXP? Longhorn seems to be another great OS upgrade for an already great WinXP. I'm looking forward to it.

I don't think anyone said XP would come with Palladium/TCPA, I don't think the name Palladium was even official back then, XP is a downgrade from Win2K(which is by far MS's best OS by the way) for other reasons.

But by all means, if you're happy about the whole TCPA thing, good for you.
 
XP is a downgrade from Win2K(which is by far MS's best OS by the way) for other reasons.
I have not used win2k much, but I have used XP lots and have nothing bad to say about it. They say opinions are like a$$ holes everyone has one!
 
Originally posted by: LostHiWay
Didn't all the Anti-MS people say the same thing about WinXP? Longhorn seems to be another great OS upgrade for an already great WinXP. I'm looking forward to it.
The DRM in Windows XP's media player was a hot topic. Rumors flew about lack of MP3 support to force people to lockable WMA. IIFC the WMA encryption was hacked and it ended up to be much to do about nothing.

Palladium is an entirely different story since MS, AMD, Intel and other playas are in bed to lock down the PC once-and-for-all.
 
Hmmm, if this is really coming to pass, then I forsee a larger-than-normal group of people suddenly moving to Linux (read: hardcore computer users who want expandability and 3rd party apps) In turn, the Computer gaming companies will lose a large portion of their user base....who knows, they might help fight this thing...scary stuff
 
Originally posted by: TheWart
Hmmm, if this is really coming to pass, then I forsee a larger-than-normal group of people suddenly moving to Linux (read: hardcore computer users who want expandability and 3rd party apps) In turn, the Computer gaming companies will lose a large portion of their user base....who knows, they might help fight this thing...scary stuff

Apple currently has no plans for DRM.
 
XP is a downgrade from Win2K(which is by far MS's best OS by the way) for other reasons.

Actually you got that backwards,XP is the new king on the block,get use to it 😀 .
 
Here's where I'm lost. Palldium was never mentioned in that article? Neither was DRM/DMCA/MPAA/RIAA. 😱 Why exactly are you making this crap up and doging MS for nothing?

<<Oh yeah say good-bye to 3rd party apps that you like that aren't made by MS because they are including the mother of all apps into their next version and am pretty sure it will not play nice with other third party apps that aren't MS approved. >>

Uh that's not what the article says at all. It says that they are planning on redesigning their Office suite to possibly make an All in one application. Dude, did you even READ the article?

I like XP's hardware support over Win2k much better. It's definately not a downgrade in my book.


I love how Sunner throws in the quote, but never finishes it.

"Neither Linux nor Unix ties the operating system to hardware," he said.

"This could bring a higher level of security than anything we've ever seen. It will almost completely prevent the platform from being compromised."

Also

<Longhorn will be the first operating system designed for use with PCI Express,>

Sounds promising (unless you're an MS hater)

 
Nothing particularly scary there, just the next step in turning a computer into a toy instead of a tool. Honestly, I don't see why you guys get your panties in a wad every time MS is mentioned. There is no conspiracy to take away your rights. MS is just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is people who have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the high tech world, and that is the vast majority of people. They are making computers much easier to use, which I applaud them for, but by doing so they are going to lessen our ability to "play" with our machines. That's my real problem with Longhorn and Palladium. It's easier and "safer" and all that, but it takes away our control, simply because most people don't know/care enough to learn how to use that control. So pretty soon we are going to be left with a world where most computers are simply bigger and more powerful Nintendoes and people will actually know less than they do now. I personally think that is far worse than them trying to stop you from pirating movies and songs and whatever you think it is they are doing. Computers should be made simpler, but not a the cost of making them stupider, which seems to be the only way MS knows how to do it.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Here's where I'm lost. Palldium was never mentioned in that article? Neither was DRM/DMCA/MPAA/RIAA. 😱 Why exactly are you making this crap up and doging MS for nothing?

I like XP's hardware support over Win2k much better. It's definately not a downgrade in my book.

Great. Its your opinion, the other was his. Let's drop it 🙂

I love how Sunner throws in the quote, but never finishes it.

"Neither Linux nor Unix ties the operating system to hardware," he said.

"This could bring a higher level of security than anything we've ever seen. It will almost completely prevent the platform from being compromised."

And this is pure 100% marketing FUD. There are systems in place on Unix-like systems that can help prevent exploits. There are more of these systems on, for example, OpenBSD than Windows 2k.

PF, systrace, non-exec stack/heap/whatever, etc. NetBSD has verified exec. There are patches and packages for all of these systems to add functionality Microsoft could never think of.

When push comes to shove, the only things that are going to protect you are: good code and education users/admins. Microsoft admits to not having good code. They have their share of bad users, but so does every system.

I would like to see how some DRM system is going to protect the users, and none of this "your system cant run viruses" bs. If I have to Ill dig up the "why palladium is bs" faq.

Also

<Longhorn will be the first operating system designed for use with PCI Express,>

I am not sure what this had to do with security (more of a comment on the article than on your post 🙂).

Sounds promising (unless you're an MS hater)

DRM/palladium is a bad idea. Period. This integration of hardware features mixedd with software on Microsoft's side is another bad idea that will turn out about as well as their month of security auditting.

And finally, WTF are they thinking with XML?!
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Nothing particularly scary there, just the next step in turning a computer into a toy instead of a tool. Honestly, I don't see why you guys get your panties in a wad every time MS is mentioned. There is no conspiracy to take away your rights. MS is just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is people who have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the high tech world, and that is the vast majority of people. They are making computers much easier to use, which I applaud them for, but by doing so they are going to lessen our ability to "play" with our machines. That's my real problem with Longhorn and Palladium. It's easier and "safer" and all that, but it takes away our control, simply because most people don't know/care enough to learn how to use that control. So pretty soon we are going to be left with a world where most computers are simply bigger and more powerful Nintendoes and people will actually know less than they do now. I personally think that is far worse than them trying to stop you from pirating movies and songs and whatever you think it is they are doing. Computers should be made simpler, but not a the cost of making them stupider, which seems to be the only way MS knows how to do it.

Palladium does nothing for security. Period. The only thing it helps are the corporations. the ones that had enough money to get the DMCA in place to hamper our freedoms (fair use, not copyright infringement, there is a difference 🙂). Palladium is an attempt to stop piracy, not an attempt to increase security.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Here's where I'm lost. Palldium was never mentioned in that article? Neither was DRM/DMCA/MPAA/RIAA. 😱 Why exactly are you making this crap up and doging MS for nothing?

"And it will be the first version that won't function fully without new hardware."

Please connect the freaking dots !

"In addition to providing a performance boost of up to eight times current speeds, the new design is required to harness the increased security features of Longhorn, which Enderle said are embodied in Microsoft's "Palladium"-branded trustworthy-computing initiative."

Again connect the dots !


<<Oh yeah say good-bye to 3rd party apps that you like that aren't made by MS because they are including the mother of all apps into their next version and am pretty sure it will not play nice with other third party apps that aren't MS approved. >>

Uh that's not what the article says at all. It says that they are planning on redesigning their Office suite to possibly make an All in one application. Dude, did you even READ the article?

"Microsoft doesn't think computer users should have to use one program to read and write a word-processing file, another to use a spreadsheet, and a third to correspond via e-mail. Rather, the company thinks, a single program should handle it all."

This translates into we are not going to play nice with third party applications that compete with us and are end-user better learn to deal with it. They will sink Office, OE and other MS apps so deep into LongHorn that it will all but cripple the system if you try to remove them. Then we people/software companies will complain and they will state that these app's are a critical piece of the OS that can not be removed no matter what !



I like XP's hardware support over Win2k much better. It's definately not a downgrade in my book.

Win2K is the only decent windows OS in my book.

I love how Sunner throws in the quote, but never finishes it.

"Neither Linux nor Unix ties the operating system to hardware," he said.

"This could bring a higher level of security than anything we've ever seen. It will almost completely prevent the platform from being compromised."

Also

<Longhorn will be the first operating system designed for use with PCI Express,>

Sounds promising (unless you're an MS hater)


Then you deserve to be a MS user.
 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Apple currently has no plans for DRM.

I never thought I would be saying this but, Thank God for Apple !! If the hardware vendors bend over for MS on the x86 side then am going with Apple full steam ahead !

 
Originally posted by: NorthenLove
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Apple currently has no plans for DRM.

I never thought I would be saying this but, Thank God for Apple !! If the hardware vendors bend over for MS on the x86 side then am going with Apple full steam ahead !

The concepts of DRM only make sense on the desktop side. I will be purchasing more Apple hardware, hammer, and sun hardware in the future. And sun is on the outs because of their unwillingnes to open documentation on the US3 to the OpenBSD developers. I expect high end hammer mobos to not support DRM, and those will be the ones I purchase. Or, if it is as rumored and there will be ways to turn off DRM (and lose the "benefits" I will turn it off.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Nothing particularly scary there, just the next step in turning a computer into a toy instead of a tool. Honestly, I don't see why you guys get your panties in a wad every time MS is mentioned. There is no conspiracy to take away your rights. MS is just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is people who have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the high tech world, and that is the vast majority of people. They are making computers much easier to use, which I applaud them for, but by doing so they are going to lessen our ability to "play" with our machines. That's my real problem with Longhorn and Palladium. It's easier and "safer" and all that, but it takes away our control, simply because most people don't know/care enough to learn how to use that control. So pretty soon we are going to be left with a world where most computers are simply bigger and more powerful Nintendoes and people will actually know less than they do now. I personally think that is far worse than them trying to stop you from pirating movies and songs and whatever you think it is they are doing. Computers should be made simpler, but not a the cost of making them stupider, which seems to be the only way MS knows how to do it.


I have no problems with what you are saying except that they are trying to wipe out the x86 architecture and make it a MS only piece of hardware. Fine they want a Nintendo type OS okay that's there problem. They should not thought try to freaking control the development of the the x86 architecture in order to screw over everyone else that doesn't want to run a OS that will encompass everything from the James Orwell's book 1984. We don't need no stinking self appointed Ministry of Computing telling us what they think we want or how they think the PC should develop to "better suit or needs". MS should just shut-up and listen to it's users for once.
 
Blah, Blah, Blah. We've heard all of this BS before when Windows "Whistler" AKA XP was in development. Stories about how you wouldn't be able to play your MP3's anymore, or how you wouldn't be able to use any drivers that were not "blessed" by Microsoft. Rumors on the operating automatically expiring after a few years, and how product activation would make you repurchase your operating system every time you did a hardware upgrade. Most of it was FUD, and almost none of the rumors came became a reality by the time the OS shipped.

Once again, history is repeating itself.
 
There's a really great article on TCPA/Palladium in issue LXF32 of Linux Format. Their website is here, but I don't believe it is up yet(edit: that is, I don't belive the article is up yet, the website is). This is a really great magazine by the way.
 
Once again, history is repeating itself.

That's true, the problem is with which part of history you're referring to. The repetitive part is where the general public wanders into whatever the current legislation being purposed is without realizing the consequences. Too many people are ready to hand over their rights for a security offering that can't ever be filled.

You honestly don't think MS would like you to be forced to use WM* instead of mp3/ogg? You don't think MS would like to be able to track your Windows installation via 1 uid per PC so that they can be sure you're not pirating their software? WPA and the low-bite rate mp3 encoder in XP are just the start, as things move towards being more enforcable they'll make them more permanent. With the way things are currently going eventually you'll only be able to install CODECs marked 'good and legal', which I doubt MP3 will be one of.

I'm most likely doing the same things as n0c, staying away from Windows (right now it's only running on 1 out of ~6 machines, my laptop, all the rest are Linux) and staying away from hardware that supports DRM or whatever they call it on the marketing side. I'll be getting a nice SMP Hammer system since the server/high-end boxes probably won't support DRM, I'd get a Sun Blade if they weren't so expensive for so little. I've already got 2 Sun UltraSparc and 2 Alpha systems, I like not being tied to any one architecture.
 
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Blah, Blah, Blah. We've heard all of this BS before when Windows "Whistler" AKA XP was in development. Stories about how you wouldn't be able to play your MP3's anymore, or how you wouldn't be able to use any drivers that were not "blessed" by Microsoft. Rumors on the operating automatically expiring after a few years, and how product activation would make you repurchase your operating system every time you did a hardware upgrade. Most of it was FUD, and almost none of the rumors came became a reality by the time the OS shipped.

Once again, history is repeating itself.

Except we have some more "concrete" evidence this time. Palladium is the way of the future... For the US. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Nothinman

I'm most likely doing the same things as n0c, staying away from Windows (right now it's only running on 1 out of ~6 machines, my laptop, all the rest are Linux) and staying away from hardware that supports DRM or whatever they call it on the marketing side. I'll be getting a nice SMP Hammer system since the server/high-end boxes probably won't support DRM, I'd get a Sun Blade if they weren't so expensive for so little. I've already got 2 Sun UltraSparc and 2 Alpha systems, I like not being tied to any one architecture.

0 of 6.5 here. The only Windows machine I use is a win2k desktop at work. 1 PPC (maybe 2 in a couple of months 😀), 1 sparc4m, and 1 ultra sparc. I have a mobo and processor for an alpha, but Ive been lazy 😛

I forsee uniprocessor and smp hammers in my future, and maybe a sunblade 2k if OpenBSD gets the docs they need for US3. Some of the features sound interresting, but Hammer also supports some of them. *shrug*
 
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