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Long Island man arreested for defending home with firearm

Z

zylander

Platinum Member
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/07/long-island-man-arrested-for-defending-home-with-ak-47/

“He starts threatening my family, my life. ‘Oh you’re dead. I’m gonna kill your family and your babies. You’re dead.’ So when he says that, 20 others guys come rushing around the corner. And so I fired four warning shots into the grass,” Grier said.
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Four warning shots into his front lawn in an attempt to deter 20 possible intruders gets him arrested. I really hope this poor guy doesnt get convicted.
 
That Shotspotter thing is pretty god damn amazing.

Edit: In a perfect world it appears that he should have entered his home and called the cops, only firing upon them if they actually tried to enter his home.
 
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In a perfect world, this guy is allowed to protect his home and his family and awarded a medal when he drives away scum.

He should be given a fucking parade for standing up to them.

Instead, the bleeding heart fucking liberals throw him in jail. What a fucking world we live in.
 
Most likely a jury lets him go.

I doubt this even goes to trial. No DA wants to stand before a jury and argue a case like this.
 
surfsatwerk said:
That Shotspotter thing is pretty god damn amazing.

Edit: In a perfect world it appears that he should have entered his home and called the cops, only firing upon them if they actually tried to enter his home.
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The only problem with retreating to the home in this case would be the large number of potential attackers and the number of points of entry he would have to protect with one gun. Too bad he could not have simply killed all their worthless asses right in the yard.
 
surfsatwerk said:
Edit: In a perfect world it appears that he should have entered his home and called the cops, only firing upon them if they actually tried to enter his home.
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Hmm, finding the right key and opening the front door would make for the perfect opportunity for the gang to rush / shoot him and enter his home while he is somewhat distracted.
 
Two fails. Shooting in the ground? With ammo costs these days? I think not. Living in Long Island.
 
Schadenfroh said:
Hmm, finding the right key and opening the front door would make for the perfect opportunity for the gang to rush / shoot him and enter his home while he is somewhat distracted.
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Did you read the story? He went inside, went upstairs, told his wife to call the police, got his AK-47 then went back outside to confront the gang members. By his account, the gang members started threatening him after he showed up with his rifle...
 
drebo said:
In a perfect world, this guy is allowed to protect his home and his family and awarded a medal when he drives away scum.
He should be given a fucking parade for standing up to them.
Instead, the bleeding heart fucking liberals throw him in jail. What a fucking world we live in.
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Firing four rounds into the lawn doesn't sound like he thought his life or health were in immediate danger. In most jurisdictions you need more reason than he had to discharge a firearm in a populated areas.
 
Story doesn't explain what happened to make him run into his house to grab his gun. Some kind of altercation had to have happened beforehand yet is not mentioned.
 
CallMeJoe said:
Firing four rounds into the lawn doesn't sound like he thought his life or health were in immediate danger. In most jurisdictions you need more reason than he had to discharge a firearm in a populated areas.
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I guess he should have dropped a few of the guys on his lawn to prove his point?
 
CallMeJoe said:
Firing four rounds into the lawn doesn't sound like he thought his life or health were in immediate danger. In most jurisdictions you need more reason than he had to discharge a firearm in a populated areas.
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This. He should never pulled the trigger unless he intended to kill them because he was in fear for his life... He fired warning shots so he must not have been that afraid.

If you fire a warning shot, you have used lethal force when by your own judgment lethal force was not justified.

Not too smart either, way to give it up you're in doubt. I bet 5/20 of those MS-13 gangbangers were carrying - even not US 3 gun champion could not take 20 men moving. All in all pretty stupid.
 
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Zebo said:
If you're firing warning shots then you shouldn't be shooting.

When it's time to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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So you'd be okay if he'd fired those four rounds into their skulls? Better a warning shot into the dirt than into a torso in my book. Lets them know you mean business and will use lethal force.

Would like to know the complete story behind this, though I'm inclined to side with the home owner.
 
Bateluer said:
So you'd be okay if he'd fired those four rounds into their skulls? Better a warning shot into the dirt than into a torso in my book. Lets them know you mean business and will use lethal force.

Would like to know the complete story behind this, though I'm inclined to side with the home owner.
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Well IMO No. Firing warning shots shows them that you are undecided. It doesn't show that you will use lethal force ( well maybe lethal to some grass ). Shooting the dirt is not lethal force. Lethal force is a few rounds into some dirt bag bodies...

Shooting dirt equals no definition of lethal/deadly force.

Military Definition:
Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force in which a person uses, causing or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily harm. ..

Police Definition:
Deadly force is generally defined as physical force which, under the circumstances in which it is used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury. In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents. Deadly force is that force which could reasonably be expected to cause death or grave bodily harm.
 
Ronstang said:
The only problem with retreating to the home in this case would be the large number of potential attackers and the number of points of entry he would have to protect with one gun. Too bad he could not have simply killed all their worthless asses right in the yard.
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Ha... he had an ak-47. Taking out the first person that entered the home would have caused the rest of the thugs to flee.
 
This was poor judgment on the part of the guy in question. He should have armed himself and stayed indoors and let the police handle it.

Unfortunately this is NY, where it's entirely possible he'll be handed a 3 year mandatory sentence.
 
Zebo said:
If you're firing warning shots then you shouldn't be shooting.

When it's time to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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Warning shots demonstrate that the weapon is loaded and working. If some of the attackers were trying to convince their friends that they should rush him by saying "it isn't loaded," or "it is a toy." Then the warning shot would prove them wrong.

I know you shouldn't fire warning shots because of the legal reasons, but these 20 attackers didn't retreat when he brought out the gun, and they did when he fired the warning shot without shooting any of them. It seems he accomplished his goal, protecting his family without shooting any of them.
 
Schadenfroh said:
Hmm, finding the right key and opening the front door would make for the perfect opportunity for the gang to rush / shoot him and enter his home while he is somewhat distracted.
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I think he did the right thing because nobody got hurt and his family was not harmed. I'm just trying to rationalize why in the seven hells he would be arrested.
 
alphatarget1 said:
Sounds like a shotgun is more effective than an AK47 (I'm assuming it's a semi-auto)?
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For home defense, a pump shotgun is more effective as you don't have to aim as much.

The funny thing here is that a old WWII era M-1 Garand infantry rifle is deadlier then a AK47. It fires 30-06 which can go through 3 people where the bullet from a AK can barely go through 1.
 
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