Long Island man arreested for defending home with firearm

[nick1985]

For home defense, a pump shotgun is more effective as you don't have to aim as much.

The funny thing here is that a old WWII era M-1 Garand infantry rifle is deadlier then a AK47. It fires 30-06 which can go through 3 people where the bullet from a AK can barely go through 1.

I dont get when people say you dont have to aim with a shotgun. Yes, you do. Even with an 18" barrel, the spread on buckshot is so small at short range that you do have to aim.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm

Look at those groups at 12 feet, a normal cross-the-room distance. VERY tiny. Hell, look at their 20 yard test. At 60 feet you still see 9" groups. You must aim with buckshot or you will miss.

 

[CallMeJoe]

For home defense, a pump shotgun is more effective as you don't have to aim as much.
The funny thing here is that a old WWII era M-1 Garand infantry rifle is deadlier then a AK47. It fires 30-06 which can go through 3 people where the bullet from a AK can barely go through 1.

At typical home defense ranges, there isn't enough shot spread to be significant. Shotguns still must be aimed.

edit: I see nick already covered this...

 

[HumblePie]

As Zebo stated, never fire a warning shot. The fact that you have a GUN IN YOUR HANDS is warning enough. If you must issue a warning do so verbally. Only shoot to kill. Also, who the eff in the military is taught to shoot warning shots? Someone has been watching to many movies and has received an inaccurate perception from bad portrayals of military actions.

 

[nick1985]

As Zebo stated, never fire a warning shot. The fact that you have a GUN IN YOUR HANDS is warning enough. If you must issue a warning do so verbally. Only shoot to kill. Also, who the eff in the military is taught to shoot warning shots? Someone has been watching to many movies and has received an inaccurate perception from bad portrayals of military actions.

Yep. Never discharge your weapon unless you are doing it to kill.

 

[Jaskalas]

Yep. Never discharge your weapon unless you are doing it to kill.

Is that grounds to convict the home owner here?

 

[spidey07]

He should be arrested. You can't do that, you can't fire warning shots. It's against the law and is negligent discharge of a firearm.

Pretty good line from another place.

If it's time to pull the trigger, it is not time to aim at the ground

 

[HumblePie]

Is that grounds to convict the home owner here?

Yes, it can be. Even here in Texas. You do not disturb the peace by discharging a fire arm unless there is an immediate and dangerous threat. Warning shots prove it was not immediate and dangerous.

If someone is going to be a gun owner, they need to know the laws in the area they live and follow them. Period. I blame this one on the gun owner for his own stupidity in following the laws.

Bad gun owners like this guy make responsible gun owners look bad by association and give steam to the anti gun nuts.

 

[nick1985]

Is that grounds to convict the home owner here?

Legally, I'd say yes. However given those circumstances it may be hard to get a jury to convict.

 

[Pens1566]

IF this goes to trial, any decent defense attorney will win just by playing up the MS13 angle. Give the background info, and tie it to the homeowner's concerns that this was the group he was dealing with and its a win.

Now, if it really was MS13. The homeowner is probably screwed either way.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

That Shotspotter thing is pretty god damn amazing.

Edit: In a perfect world it appears that he should have entered his home and called the cops, only firing upon them if they actually tried to enter his home.

yeah as they throw molotov cocktails through the windows and burn his family alive fuck that. The only problem here is their aren't 20 new casket orders.

 

[soulcougher73]

I have no problem with him firing warning shots into the ground. Basically he is saying i dont want this to get violent but if you want to continue with your assault on my home i will open fire and kill you. He is giving them the chance to back down and not die.

A+ for what the owner did in my book.

 

[xj0hnx]

By his account, the gang members started threatening him after he showed up with his rifle...

George Grier said he had to use his rifle on Sunday night to stop what he thought was going to be an invasion of his Uniondale home by a gang he thought might have been the vicious “MS-13.” He said the whole deal happened as he was about to drive his cousin home.
“I went around and went into the house, ran upstairs and told my wife to call the police. I get the gun and I go outside and I come into the doorway and now, by this time, they are in the driveway, back here near the house. I tell them, you know, ‘Can you please leave?’ Grier said.

Sounds to me like he was outside about to take his cousin home and something happened to make him think they were a threat.

Maybe he was in the military at one point... becomes second nature.

We didn't do warning shots, shoot to kill, drive on.

For home defense, a pump shotgun is more effective as you don't have to aim as much.

The funny thing here is that a old WWII era M-1 Garand infantry rifle is deadlier then a AK47. It fires 30-06 which can go through 3 people where the bullet from a AK can barely go through 1.

30 rounds vs 8. Plus getting hit by 7.62x39 isn't a picnic either.

Yep. Never discharge your weapon unless you are doing it to kill.

Exactly. Don't even pull it unless you intend to kill, flashing a gun, bad.

I blame this one on the gun owner for his own stupidity in following the laws.

Bad gun owners like this guy make responsible gun owners look bad by association and give steam to the anti gun nuts.

I'd agree, but then again being confronted by multiple attackers is scenario that doesn't happen often, and can test even the most trained.

 

[spidey07]

I have no problem with him firing warning shots into the ground. Basically he is saying i dont want this to get violent but if you want to continue with your assault on my home i will open fire and kill you. He is giving them the chance to back down and not die.

A+ for what the owner did in my book.

Except it's against the law and if the home owner did indeed shoot the person after the "warning shots" then they'll likely get charged very serious felony.

If he just shot them dead without warning shots depending on state no charges would even be filed.

 

[Zebo]

If he's beefing with MS13 being arrested is the least of his worries

This too. Another reason warning shots is wasted. If you're going out anyway may as well make world a better place. Instead of 2000 MS13 in Nassau Country there should be ~ 1992.

 

[Zebo]

So you'd be okay if he'd fired those four rounds into their skulls? Better a warning shot into the dirt than into a torso in my book. Lets them know you mean business and will use lethal force.

Would like to know the complete story behind this, though I'm inclined to side with the home owner.

Brandishing is showing you mean business, also illegal. Then he did use lethal force by firing but by his own judgment felt lethal force was unnecessary. I'll tell you what happend he tried to play big man on campus with a gun. That's not how guns used for in self defense, They are used to stop immediate threaths to life. Not show you mean business. Or else people would be pulling them out all the time. Traffic rage, someone cutting in line in front of you, bang bang bang.

I would not exactly convict him but guns should no be used to prove something. They have one purpose to kill and should only be used in rare circumstances against people when you fear for your life.

 

[RedChief]

30 rounds vs 8. Plus getting hit by 7.62x39 isn't a picnic either.

I doubt he had a 30 round clip though as those have been outlawed in many states.

 

[spidey07]

A buddy asked me what I'd do in the scenario. Pretty easy really, I'd go inside my home and grab a handgun and an AR and some more magazines, wife with shotgun will stay in a safe place. If anybody tried to forcibly enter, they would get dead. If any crossed the threshold into my house, which includes up to and including the garage door, they would get dead. Best part is I couldn't be charged with a crime.

 

[spidey07]

I doubt he had a 30 round clip though as those have been outlawed in many states.

Only the stupid states of which there are 5 I think.

 

[OutHouse]

If you're firing warning shots then you shouldn't be shooting.

When it's time to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

Jesus Christ what are you a message board lawyer? you have been proven many many times to be wrong on your slanted views on the use of lethal force. the last one was when you wanted the guy in Texas get the chair for shooting the two guys robbing his neighbors house. i believe your argument was "he shot them in the back, they posed no threat so the guy is guilty of murder" well you can see how wrong you were on that one.

 

[OutHouse]

Brandishing is showing you mean business, also illegal. Then he did use lethal force by firing but by his own judgment felt lethal force was unnecessary. I'll tell you what happend he tried to play big man on campus with a gun. That's not how guns used for in self defense, They are used to stop immediate threaths to life. Not show you mean business. Or else people would be pulling them out all the time. Traffic rage, someone cutting in line in front of you, bang bang bang.

I would not exactly convict him but guns should no be used to prove something. They have one purpose to kill and should only be used in rare circumstances against people when you fear for your life.

lol, so wrong it hurts.

By your logic any cop who pulls his gun better pull the trigger or he will be big bully and should go to jail for intimidation. I think you have watched too much CSI.

 

[OutHouse]

who the eff in the military is taught to shoot warning shots?

I was. In panama we could shoot 1 warning shot into the air if we encountered somebody in the jungle and they didn't comply.

 

[Zebo]

Jesus Christ what are you a message board lawyer? you have been proven many many times to be wrong on your slanted views on the use of lethal force. the last one was when you wanted the guy in Texas get the chair for shooting the two guys robbing his neighbors house. i believe your argument was "he shot them in the back, they posed no threat so the guy is guilty of murder" well you can see how wrong you were on that one.

You're making shit up.

 

[CallMeJoe]

lol, so wrong it hurts.

By your logic any cop who pulls his gun better pull the trigger or he will be big bully and should go to jail for intimidation. I think you have watched too much CSI.

Agreed; you are so wrong it hurts. Zebo faulted him for discharging his weapon unnecessarily, not for having his weapon ready. By Zebo's logic, any cop who discharges his weapon had better be able to justify his action...

 

[OCGuy]

This guy will either plead out to a misdemeanor or go to trial and be acquitted.

Nothing to really see here folks. Too bad he didnt nail a couple of those thugs though.

 

[xj0hnx]

I doubt he had a 30 round clip though as those have been outlawed in many states.

In New York state as long as it was manufactured before 1994 it is legal ...

It shall be unlawful to possess any “assault weapon” or “large capacity ammunition feeding device.” So called assault weapons lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994 and large capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured prior to such date can continue to be lawfully possessed..

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