londons burning

[SMOGZINN]

REALLY?! America has far more issues currently than the UK, we don't really have many severe issues at the moment.

America is considerably larger then the UK, with a much larger population, and has a considerably more complex political system. But I will not deny that the US has more problems then the UK, and I expect this sort of thing to happen in the US very soon now.

Not a protest, it's a riot, people do riot for this long for no reason.

This is where we disagree. I do not believe that people do anything for no reason. There are always reasons, even if we do not understand them. Society molds people, they create both the type and amount of criminals, and informs what type and where they commit crime.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Some people simple don't want to go to work. That's really all it is. Stop trying to blame society on people's poor choices and behavior. Or are you going for the workers paradise?

It is not about there being lazy people that don't want to work, no matter how good your society is there will be those, it is the number of them, and the anger that they have.
These are not a few people that are content to be lazy and poor, these are large numbers of young people who are angry that they are poor and have been fed an expectation by society that they don't have to work to be successful.

 

[spidey07]

It is not about there being lazy people that don't want to work, no matter how good your society is there will be those, it is the number of them, and the anger that they have.
These are not a few people that are content to be lazy and poor, these are large numbers of young people who are angry that they are poor and have been fed an expectation by society that they don't have to work to be successful.

And where is the role of the parent in all of this? Or are you wanting cradle to grave socialism?

Those values are not society's duty to teach or instill, but the parents' (plural on purpose).

 

[mattpegher]

I do think Hal9000 has brought up an interesting point though. If unemployent and economic inequality exist in the US as well, what factors spur rioting. I am willing to suggest that the extreme welfare state has actually enforced a devaluation of self-sufficent living. Ie they dont feel they need to earn anything. It will either be given to them or they can steel it. Sure unemployement reinforces this, but the root begins in the welfare state. Generation after generation recieves sustenance from the state and so there is no incentive to try to earn more. The only way they know of getting more is to steal it.

 

[Infohawk]

REALLY?! America has far more issues currently than the UK, we don't really have many severe issues at the moment.

Nonsense. I can understand that you're defensive since half this forum is always attacking the Uk but you really go overboard by saying things like this. The UK is currently in the middle of riots and its economy is deeply linked to the US's with the same kinds of issues and problems. (Remember that thread where I showed you the UK has more debt in some circumstances?)

 

[JTsyo]

Seems normal citizens are taking a stand. I like the part about Amazon sales of bats and batons.

 

[SMOGZINN]

And where is the role of the parent in all of this? Or are you wanting cradle to grave socialism?

Those values are not society's duty to teach or instill, but the parents' (plural on purpose).

Huh? I'm wanting to end most forms of socialism, I'm all about personal responsibility, I think overly liberal social policy is what what gets us to this sort of thing in the first place. Give to much away and people expect to be given everything.

The thing I am trying to show you here is that when you have a lot of something then you have a pattern, if you have a pattern something is causing it. Find what is causing it, and change that, then change the pattern. This is not really advanced stuff here.

 

[Doppel]

Wish some of you would stop calling these protests. Where are the signs? What are their demands? These are criminals and nothing more. They are not protests, they are opportunists.

 

[spidey07]

Looks like there is strong support to take away all the fee stuff from looters. Good, actions have consequences.

And what the hell? It looks like UK provides everything for them, housing, food, etc. What the hell do they have to complain about?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-say-100k-48hrs-e-petition.html#ixzz1Ukn6KYld

Over 100,000 people have called for convicted rioters and looters to lose their benefits saying they show a disregard for the country that provides for them.

An online petition at epetitions.direct.gov.uk demands welfare-dependent rioters convicted of offences linked to the recent disorder should surrender their state handouts.

Now the figure has topped 100,000 signatures and the petition has proved so popular the government site hosting it has crashed under the strain.

 

[matt0611]

What animals these people are.

How is destroying peoples private property going to help you?
They didn't do it. They didn't harm you.

These people are low lives and should probably be beaten or shot on sight if they are caught hurting more people or destroying more property.

The human race really sickens me sometimes.

 

[Doppel]

I just really wonder in the end how many people will be convicted and given real punishment.

None of us really know what percentage of these looters are "chavs", but in basically all the pics I've seen they look like this f**kers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyU2z-FJr8

And the best way to educate these kids is not by giving them free education, which they've already rejected. It was GIVEN them and they are just going to drop out of school and act like bangers on the corner. They should be welted with rubber bullets, have all their free sh*t taken away, and if they cannot behave put them in prison so that they stop harrassing and being in front of decent human beings who know how to act responsibly in a society of others.

 

[Wordplay]

Looks like there is strong support to take away all the fee stuff from looters. Good, actions have consequences.

And what the hell? It looks like UK provides everything for them, housing, food, etc. What the hell do they have to complain about?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-say-100k-48hrs-e-petition.html#ixzz1Ukn6KYld

:thumbsup:

 

[Doppel]

It's a great idea to evict them but who's going to do it? The police are too scared to raise a hand at them and the general public looks the other way. I doubt they even have the legal right to kick these people out, unfortunately.

 

[werepossum]

It's a riot, there's no debating that, there's no argument to be made, you obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are just looking to push your own xenophobic agenda.

The "Ignore" list, she is your friend.

 

[werepossum]

I do think Hal9000 has brought up an interesting point though. If unemployent and economic inequality exist in the US as well, what factors spur rioting. I am willing to suggest that the extreme welfare state has actually enforced a devaluation of self-sufficent living. Ie they dont feel they need to earn anything. It will either be given to them or they can steel it. Sure unemployement reinforces this, but the root begins in the welfare state. Generation after generation recieves sustenance from the state and so there is no incentive to try to earn more. The only way they know of getting more is to steal it.

Well said.

 

[Mem]

Watch live discussion here about riots on "Question Time" BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/watchlive/.

 

[HAL9000]

America is considerably larger then the UK, with a much larger population, and has a considerably more complex political system. But I will not deny that the US has more problems then the UK, and I expect this sort of thing to happen in the US very soon now.



This is where we disagree. I do not believe that people do anything for no reason. There are always reasons, even if we do not understand them. Society molds people, they create both the type and amount of criminals, and informs what type and where they commit crime.

So because you think people don't do things like this for fun (which they clearly do) you assume there is some larger political motive.

Nonsense. I can understand that you're defensive since half this forum is always attacking the Uk but you really go overboard by saying things like this. The UK is currently in the middle of riots and its economy is deeply linked to the US's with the same kinds of issues and problems. (Remember that thread where I showed you the UK has more debt in some circumstances?)

Sure, we are having riots at the moment, we also have economic problems (I've never argued that we don't) What I'm saying is that America has more social and political problems than the UK does.

 

[HAL9000]

I do think Hal9000 has brought up an interesting point though. If unemployent and economic inequality exist in the US as well, what factors spur rioting. I am willing to suggest that the extreme welfare state has actually enforced a devaluation of self-sufficent living. Ie they dont feel they need to earn anything. It will either be given to them or they can steel it. Sure unemployement reinforces this, but the root begins in the welfare state. Generation after generation recieves sustenance from the state and so there is no incentive to try to earn more. The only way they know of getting more is to steal it.

Yep, that's a certainly valid argument, the problem is that those people you describe are a minority and if we take away the welfare system that creates them, we also take it away from those who need it.

Looks like there is strong support to take away all the fee stuff from looters. Good, actions have consequences.

And what the hell? It looks like UK provides everything for them, housing, food, etc. What the hell do they have to complain about?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-say-100k-48hrs-e-petition.html#ixzz1Ukn6KYld

I signed that.

 

[Doppel]

Sure, we are having riots at the moment, we also have economic problems (I've never argued that we don't) What I'm saying is that America has more social and political problems than the UK does.

I'd say I disagree but all either of us could do would be throw endless examples at one another so there doesn't seem much point I'm not sure what time you've spent in the US but I've spent time in the UK and absolutely prefer it over here. The weather is better, homes are cheaper, and it's not suffocatingly crowded like the UK is by comparison. I also prefer the government (although it's a piece of sh*t right now).

 

[HAL9000]

I'd say I disagree but all either of us could do would be throw endless examples at one another so there doesn't seem much point I'm not sure what time you've spent in the US but I've spent time in the UK and absolutely prefer it over here. The weather is better, homes are cheaper, and it's not suffocatingly crowded like the UK is by comparison. I also prefer the government (although it's a piece of sh*t right now).

Fair enough, everyone has their own preferences, I hate hot weather, homes are not too expensive where I live and as I don't own one it's not a concern, not crowded where I live at all. I also prefer our government (although it's a piece of shit right now) We are so similar but so different.

I spent about 3 months in America last year, good fun.

 

[Mem]

I'd say I disagree but all either of us could do would be throw endless examples at one another so there doesn't seem much point I'm not sure what time you've spent in the US but I've spent time in the UK and absolutely prefer it over here. The weather is better, homes are cheaper, and it's not suffocatingly crowded like the UK is by comparison. I also prefer the government (although it's a piece of sh*t right now).

My brother just came back from US(Atlanta),he has lived in Canada and Australia plus has been to US before(Chicago,NY,San Fransisco,LA etc..),he said they don't have a proper safety net in US like they do in UK for unemployed and poor folks etc..btw he preferred Canada and Australia over US,as to weather that's old excuse I prefer cooler climate less smelly people .


End of the day its pointless statement since you could ask 10000 people and get 10000 different opinions and answers.

 

[Infohawk]

End of the day its pointless statement since you could ask 10000 people and get 10000 different opinions and answers.

Seriously everyone needs to stfu and get back to the actual topic at hand. Despite what COW wants to turn this into, this is not about whether the US or Europe is better. There are Europeans who live in the US and think it's great and there are Americans who live in Europe and think it's great. (There are very few westerners that like to stay in countries like India or Ethiopia longer than a visit.) The two continents are all industrialized Western countries. Get over it. Don't let COW's trolling win and get back on topic.

 

[Mem]

Don't let COW's trolling win and get back on topic.

Topic has changed so many times by other members where do we start , getting back on topic its quiet again in London and far as I know UK as well ,checking news etc..... no reports so far .

 

[Svnla]

What animals these people are.

How is destroying peoples private property going to help you?
They didn't do it. They didn't harm you.

These people are low lives and should probably be beaten or shot on sight if they are caught hurting more people or destroying more property.

The human race really sickens me sometimes.

This, especially the bolded parts.

Just like the Rodney King riot in LA a few years ago, scumbags just looking for excuses to steal, rob, and burn.

I can't believe some of you posters said those scumbags were protesters. D:

Gotta love how the UK police set up daytime raids and haul those scumbags to jail. LOL @ those fuckers, not so tough and hard core now.

 

[HAL9000]

Topic has changed so many times by other members where do we start , getting back on topic its quiet again in London and far as I know UK as well ,checking news etc..... no reports so far .

Yep, it's all OK at the mo.