Listening to and considering the 'other side'

[Vic]

What bothers me most lately about America's binary political system is the increasing use of the -tard suffix.
Now I grant that there are a lot of trolls out there who are pushing their agendas dishonestly, but barring those, everyone else has some form of validity within their arguments.
I think the larger issue there though is how people are increasingly identifying themselves in their political partisanship. So many tend to see any attack against them personally as an attack against their ideology. No one wants to admit being wrong, of course, but you are not your ideology. Or your party.

 

[MagickMan]

M: You can't graft experience on a novice. Only the person with the experience is going to know who is who. You get to remain the ignorant one without knowing it's you who is. And there it is.

Agreed, you've shown how much of a novice you are countless times around here. You even admitted that you have uncontrolled hate and rage towards people who disagree with you. You have no hope of understanding my state of mine because yours is broken.

M: You don't know what you feel. You don't know you don't know what you feel. I know you don't know and that's the way it is. You can't know without paying and it will cost you your assumptions. But you have no idea what that means either.

Quit being a douche by repeating yourself. Only crazy people keep repeating the same exercise over and over expecting a different response, compound that with your ridiculous ego and it gets absurd to the point of comedy.

M: We think identically. I know you like I know my own hand. The difference is that I know that everything I believed like you do is a pile of shit. It was terrible to lose it but man am I glad it's gone.

We don't, because your mind is unbalanced and filled with rage and mine isn't.

M: You are competitive being with an inferiority complex so you see me as a superior being and have a need to run me down. This is a delusion of your own creation. I'm not superior to you. I'm in a better state of awareness. I know that I am and you do not. There's more here than I can ever use so I try to give it to you. But the door is covered with ugly truths about who you are right now and you ain't going through that door without looken at um.

More of that overactive ego again. I call you out, and will continue to do so, because you're a hypocritical asshole. Your pseudo-zen Christianity, combined with whatever you've swept off the floor today, is a joke. You don't need to be giving anyone advice, you need to be in a comprehensive mental health program, taking psychopharmaceuticals, sorting out why you can't control your anger and egotism.

M: You goof, I can't even give it away.

For obvious reasons.

M: Don't try to show off to me. I'm not impressed by this sort of thing. I never heard of this dude and I'm only too happy to admit it.

Sure, okay. You've not read any books on the subject?

M: Do tell. I guess you know this like you know I'm LunarRay?

Evasion. Try addressing what I actually said.

M: Rolling your eyes is probably good exercise. Gives your brain a chance to recover from all the work of rationalizing.

How ironic, since it seems you can't be rational at all.

 

[MagickMan]

What bothers me most lately about America's binary political system is the increasing use of the -tard suffix.
Now I grant that there are a lot of trolls out there who are pushing their agendas dishonestly, but barring those, everyone else has some form of validity within their arguments.
I think the larger issue there though is how people are increasingly identifying themselves in their political partisanship. So many tend to see any attack against them personally as an attack against their ideology. No one wants to admit being wrong, of course, but you are not your ideology. Or your party.

That I agree with. You need to have a skin 3x thicker than a rhino's to converse on ATP&N, and it isn't even close to the worst forum for abuse out there.

 

[dmcowen674]

What bothers me most lately about America's binary political system is the increasing use of the -tard suffix.
Now I grant that there are a lot of trolls out there who are pushing their agendas dishonestly, but barring those, everyone else has some form of validity within their arguments.
I think the larger issue there though is how people are increasingly identifying themselves in their political partisanship. So many tend to see any attack against them personally as an attack against their ideology. No one wants to admit being wrong, of course, but you are not your ideology. Or your party.

Natural progression when leading up to war.

You have to have to sides to have the war.

 

[dmcowen674]

This isn't 1810 where you can just overthrow the rich and their corporations and go back to hunting elk for food. It would tank the economy so bad that the great depression would look like chump change. The corporations that brought you food, clothing and necessities of life will be gone. You going to be able to keep those running without an interruption in the supply chain? What about all the money and assets you seize? What do you think they are going to be worth after your revolution? You, bshole, Phokus and a few others think you will be living in a utopia but you are all to stupid to see what would really happen.

We know exactly what would happen. The Corporations and Cities would be laid to waste.

Amish living would be the norm.

 

[Moonbeam]

What bothers me most lately about America's binary political system is the increasing use of the -tard suffix.
Now I grant that there are a lot of trolls out there who are pushing their agendas dishonestly, but barring those, everyone else has some form of validity within their arguments.
I think the larger issue there though is how people are increasingly identifying themselves in their political partisanship. So many tend to see any attack against them personally as an attack against their ideology. No one wants to admit being wrong, of course, but you are not your ideology. Or your party.

The tard suffix I would call the process of demonization. Group loyalty is strengthened when the enemy is terribly evil. This has been recognized by neuroscientists as a trait applicable to those of us who have typical conservative ethics. Liberals focus on equality and justice and so do conservatives but in addition they have moral standards like respect for authority, purity, group loyalty etc. These extra ethical values that conservatives have that liberals don't so much, create different political outlooks and political strategies. So while it is possible for a conservative to understand a liberal's concern about fairness and justice, it isn't easy for a liberal to understand group loyalty, disgust at signs of difference, and demonization of others for the sake of the team.

Neuroscience has further adduced that conservatives double down on what they believe when challenged in comparison to liberals. In short, the scientists point out that team loyalty, in an age lacking external threat leads conservatives to turn against the league on which they play, they turn on the other in their own society and become dangerous in the process because any attempt to dissuade them from this dangerous practice makes them double down on it.

I believe that this group identification thingi is the result of the authoritarian of conformity in childhood, the loss of trust in the self in favor of the security of group think. Once one loses ones inner sense of self worth one seeks to replace it by joining a group that offers certainty and security of numbers.

Now because liberals are more persuaded by reason and logic and are more able to evaluate without emotional bias, they see this growing tendency among Americans as the real danger it represents. Some may react with fear and irrationality to that just like a conservative would, but there is always more chance there that logic will prevail. I believe, however, that what I call the conservative brain defect is real and a real danger. I see no answer other than to become aware of the facts of the situation. But there is this endless problem of the conservative mind doubling down.

 

[Moonbeam]

We know exactly what would happen. The Corporations and Cities would be laid to waste.

Amish living would be the norm.

The Amish areas of the country would be the last place I would go because it would be the first place everybody else would.

 

[Moonbeam]

MagickMan: Agreed, you've shown how much of a novice you are countless times around here. You even admitted that you have uncontrolled hate and rage towards people who disagree with you. You have no hope of understanding my state of mine because yours is broken.

M: So much need to be better, hehe.



MM: Quit being a douche by repeating yourself. Only crazy people keep repeating the same exercise over and over expecting a different response, compound that with your ridiculous ego and it gets absurd to the point of comedy.

M: He says repeatedly

MM: We don't, because your mind is unbalanced and filled with rage and mine isn't.

M: So much need to be better, hehe.

MM: More of that overactive ego again. I call you out, and will continue to do so, because you're a hypocritical asshole. Your pseudo-zen Christianity, combined with whatever you've swept off the floor today, is a joke. You don't need to be giving anyone advice, you need to be in a comprehensive mental health program, taking psychopharmaceuticals, sorting out why you can't control your anger and egotism.

M: So much need for certain superiority, hehe.

MM: For obvious reasons.

M: That you are a goof, yes.

MM: Sure, okay. You've not read any books on the subject?

M: The book of self. The one you know so little about.

MM: Evasion. Try addressing what I actually said.

M: You only imagine you said something. You didn't.

MM: How ironic, since it seems you can't be rational at all.

M: That is your condition. You don't know what rational is because you don't know what you feel. You don't want to look at your motivations.

Don't you feel strangely possessed, all this fixation on me? I'm beginning to suspect you may have some sort of mental illness? I will help you if I can. How do you feel?

 

[LunarRay]

I don't know. Seems to me it would be their call not mine.

Ok...

Well, again referring to my post #117, it has been discovered that twin B is rather retarded. He is incapable of making a decision on his own behalf and his twin, A, wants to live and wants B to die so to enable this. You, The Court, has to determine which has the Right to live greater than the other... Of course, Mr. Justice Beam, you may absolve yourself by delay and cause them both to die.

Would it possibly be that the court would side with the only twin who could speak?
There don't seem to be a compromise available in this case you have before you... One dies or the both die .... Who has the greater Right to live?

[Edit... I use you to further my query because no one else opined on my post.... hehehehe It's ok if you let it drop]

 

[MagickMan]

*a lot of inane bullshit*

Good, I'm glad you've finally dropped the facade of righteousness, it's better for you to admit that you're simply a hateful, disturbed, narcissistic prick. To be a Christian you would actually need to be "Christ-like" (since that's what it literally means), and that isn't you.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ok...

Well, again referring to my post #117, it has been discovered that twin B is rather retarded. He is incapable of making a decision on his own behalf and his twin, A, wants to live and wants B to die so to enable this. You, The Court, has to determine which has the Right to live greater than the other... Of course, Mr. Justice Beam, you may absolve yourself by delay and cause them both to die.

Would it possibly be that the court would side with the only twin who could speak?
There don't seem to be a compromise available in this case you have before you... One dies or the both die .... Who has the greater Right to live?

[Edit... I use you to further my query because no one else opined on my post.... hehehehe It's ok if you let it drop]

Well the problem I see here is that if B is incapable of making a decision on his own behalf, how could his decision to want to die to enable A to live be considered valid? I can understand how A might want to live and even how he could justify that he does over his mentally impaired twin in his thinking but I can't see how he could make that decision himself and live with it. I might go with a court decision based on secret ballot where none who vote ever know the final decision.

 

[Moonbeam]

Good, I'm glad you've finally dropped the facade of righteousness, it's better for you to admit that you're simply a hateful, disturbed, narcissistic prick. To be a Christian you would actually need to be "Christ-like" (since that's what it literally means), and that isn't you.

The façade of righteousness you believe that I had I never had. That was all manufactured by your feelings of inferiority. I also didn't admit to anything other than being who you are too, the difference being that I know who that is. You do not know what you feel so you live in self flattery, perhaps even that you are a Christian. But you don't even know you're guilty of the sin of self hate so how are you going to feel forgiven for what you don't know you have.

You are upside down in everything so no matter what you say it will have to be straightened out by somebody who sees, my Christ-like friend who calls me a narcissistic prick. Well if that's so it's what you see in the mirror.

 

[MagickMan]

The façade of righteousness you believe that I had I never had. That was all manufactured by your feelings of inferiority. I also didn't admit to anything other than being who you are too, the difference being that I know who that is. You do not know what you feel so you live in self flattery, perhaps even that you are a Christian. But you don't even know you're guilty of the sin of self hate so how are you going to feel forgiven for what you don't know you have.

You are upside down in everything so no matter what you say it will have to be straightened out by somebody who sees, my Christ-like friend who calls me a narcissistic prick. Well if that's so it's what you see in the mirror.

Since I'm an atheist I can't be a Christian. Your claims of spiritual and religious superiority are well known, however. Despite your uncontrollable rage, profane abusiveness, and egotism. Right.

 

[Moonbeam]

Since I'm an atheist I can't be a Christian. Your claims of spiritual and religious superiority are well known, however. Despite your uncontrollable rage, profane abusiveness, and egotism. Right.

Your claims of your feelings of spiritual inferiority are well visible to anybody with the eyes to see them as is your uncontrollable need to bully people by your endless willingness to make a titanic ass of yourself by endlessly responding with more and more drivel in the hope your tolerance for shame will defeat anybody who has any self respect.

 

[MagickMan]

Your claims of your feelings of spiritual inferiority are well visible to anybody with the eyes to see them as is your uncontrollable need to bully people by your endless willingness to make a titanic ass of yourself by endlessly responding with more and more drivel in the hope your tolerance for shame will defeat anybody who has any self respect.

*reads Loonie's post*

*reads it again*

Is your cracked mind even capable of comprehending the irony of that statement? No one around here comes close to your ability to make an ass of yourself with unfounded, nonsensical drivel. You set a benchmark that can't, nor ever will, be surpassed.

As for bullying, I'll leave this right here, to jog your memory:

Of course you don't. That's why you have a brain defect. You don't want anybody to die, you just vote to insure they do and are too brain defective to notice. You operate on gut instinct with a low level of information and no training in critical thinking. When you look at a massively complicated issue like health care and the economic consequences of various tweaks to it you are lost as to implication. This is why your notion that we are all bigots is such brain defective rot. As a pin head you attempt to claim the same intellectual capacity as people who have trained themselves to use it.

You don't have the standing, intellectually or by education to make heads or tails out of the healthcare issue. But instead of being modest and accepting that fact, you have to inject your stupid ego as if you had something worthwhile to say. Now you may get all wound up about this but the fact is that I don't know anything either, difference being, I know it.

How can you whine about anyone else being a bully, or accuse them of trying to silence someone else, after a post like that? You talk about self-respect, how can you have any at all after just one day of posting what you do on this forum? How, when every day you take a massive dump on your own beliefs and declarations of wisdom with that type of abuse? You obnoxious, two-faced, willfully-ignorant, little phony.

 

[Moonbeam]

*reads Loonie's post*

*reads it again*

Is your cracked mind even capable of comprehending the irony of that statement? No one around here comes close to your ability to make an ass of yourself with unfounded, nonsensical drivel. You set a benchmark that can't, nor ever will, be surpassed.

As for bullying, I'll leave this right here, to jog your memory:



How can you whine about anyone else being a bully, or accuse them of trying to silence someone else, after a post like that? You talk about self-respect, how can you have any at all after just one day of posting what you do on this forum? How, when every day you take a massive dump on your own beliefs and declarations of wisdom with that type of abuse? You obnoxious, two-faced, willfully-ignorant, little phony.

Hehe, That's gonna hurt my feelings.

 

[MagickMan]

Only if you take any of the crap you say on this forum seriously, otherwise, probably not.

 

[Jaskalas]

A woman has no responsibility to anyone to give birth...

A mother's responsibility is to her child.

 

[Jaskalas]

Do you check out the other side outside of this forum? Do conversations with people who disagree with you peak your interest, or get you riled up? I'm somewhere in between and moving toward interest.

A lot of what P&N posters said of Iraq, GWB, and Neo-Conservatives rang true. Took a couple years for it to get through, but in the end I'll say they won most of those arguments.

 

[werepossum]

Thank you but I disagree that both points of view are valid. Both views are invalid in my opinion because each is an absolute that conflicts with the absolute of the other and it is illogical to prefer one absolute that denies the other. In the absolute each view is monstrous and can have validity only in compromise with the other. It is only in compromise that any sense can be made that life is sacred and so is the body. But I think you recognize this because you see that compromise of some kind is necessary. But in the absence of conflict between absolutes some things are absolute. Perhaps the only absolute is that all absolutes are conditional.

I'd argue the opposite, that there are absolutes but our ability to perceive them is limited, in part by our humanity. Honor the man who seeks to know G-d's will; fear the man who says he knows it.

What bothers me most lately about America's binary political system is the increasing use of the -tard suffix.
Now I grant that there are a lot of trolls out there who are pushing their agendas dishonestly, but barring those, everyone else has some form of validity within their arguments.
I think the larger issue there though is how people are increasingly identifying themselves in their political partisanship. So many tend to see any attack against them personally as an attack against their ideology. No one wants to admit being wrong, of course, but you are not your ideology. Or your party.

Well said. Neil Boortz had a saying when people would call in saying they agreed with everything he says. "I hope not; if two people agree on everything then one of them is redundant." That should go double for political parties; if you think one party is correct on every issue, then thinking is not your strong suite.

 

[Paul98]

It's the us vs them mentality, this is the same as AMD vs NVidia, Chevy vs Ford. You have a large number of people who irrationally defend "their side" or attack the "other side." These people are unable to see things from the "other's side," and won't change their mind based on evidence. They won't concede much of anything as they don't care and will latch onto anything that they think shows the other in bad light.

 

[hal2kilo]

Hehe, That's gonna hurt my feelings.

Damn, you're making my sides split.

 

[IGBT]

from the liberal point of view it's their way or the highway. That's why they will always spin, "It's bigoted to be objective"..and from there it retrogrades to grievance mongering.

 

[MagickMan]

Damn, you're making my sides split.

It's not nice to laugh at the mentally handicapped. :|

 

[hal2kilo]

Hehe, That's gonna hurt my feelings.

I always liked this song by the Velvet Underground with Nico singing

I'll be your mirror
Reflect what you are in case you don't know
I'll be the wind, the rain, and the sunset
The light on your door to show that you're home
When you think the night has seen your mind
That inside you're twisted and unkind
Let me stand to show that you are blind
Please put down your hands
Cause, I see you
I find it hard to believe you don't know
The beauty that you are
But if you don't let me be your eyes
A hand in your darkness, so you won't be afraid
When you think the night has seen your mind
That inside you're twisted and unkind
Let me stand to show that you are blind
Please put down your hands
Cause, I see you
I'll be your mirror