Listen to 911 call - Man sees burlary and decides to shoot robbers with shotgun - everything on tape..

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
He was right to defend his neighbor's property, but there was no need to shoot them without giving a warning first. A blast into the air and shouting "drop the bag or you'll be shot" would be fine. On the other hand, if they were brandishing weapons, he was fine. An officer could have been hurt in a shooting afterwards.

I'm all for defending your home and helping your neighbor in a time of crisis, but what needs to be considered here is that if everyone were permitted to take this kind of action then how many accidents would it take before it becomes illegal? How many innocent people need to get hurt or killed before this is deemed unacceptable? There is a reason why police officers are forced to go under strict training to deal with these situations and given other means of controlling problems in hopes of avoiding the use of their guns.

We have all witnessed first hand how many irresponsible people there are out there. Do you guys really want to give all of them this freedom?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: BigJ
Hell, I'm even for you being allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself and your property and this guy needs the chair.

The guy wasn't defending property. He was going hunting.

Did you actually read the story? His neighbors house was being robbed. He most certainly was defending property, and in Texas he can defend his or a 3rd parties property with deadly force.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: BigJ
Hell, I'm even for you being allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself and your property and this guy needs the chair.

The guy wasn't defending property. He was going hunting.

Did you actually read the story? His neighbors house was being robbed. He most certainly was defending property, and in Texas he can defend his or a 3rd parties property with deadly force.

If you read the article, he can only do that at night.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: BigJ
Hell, I'm even for you being allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself and your property and this guy needs the chair.

The guy wasn't defending property. He was going hunting.

Did you actually read the story? His neighbors house was being robbed. He most certainly was defending property, and in Texas he can defend his or a 3rd parties property with deadly force.

There is a difference between what the general public is permitted to do legally and what they are permitted to do responsibly. I still say this is a bad idea considering the possibility of someone missing their target and hurting someone else whether it be someone standing behind the target or the bullets going through a window. As I mentioned in the post above, how many accidents would it take before you change your opinion on what should be permitted? Also, how much do you believe the rate of accidents would increase if this course of action were considered the norm amongst the general public over relying on the cops? I'd say it would increase much more than what the majority of people would be happy with.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
From the article:

"The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer's Association.

"It can't be during the day," Jett said."

Jett would be wrong, but he wouldn't be the 1st criminal defense attorney to try and squabble over that statute.

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property;

The bolded part is what is of interest here. When items are listed in a statue with commas seperating them the commas are to be treated as periods. They are listing individual instance.
Imminent commission of arson. Burglary. Robbery. Aggravated Robbery. Theft during the night time. Criminal Mischief during the night time.

The criminals in the case where in the process of fleeing after committing burglary. Not theft at night or criminal mischief at night.


§ 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person:
(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault; or
(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or
(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

 

[lupi]

The entire "he said he was gonna kill them" thing is hilarious, particularly since it's being presented so out of context. Having finally just listened to the call, he only says that following the 911 guy telling him, almost as a threat, that going outside would just get him shot and getting shot over property isn't a good idea.
 
 
If some punk tries to snatch some stuff from the 7-11 and runs out the door to a hail of bullets, or someone taking a few extra papers from the vendor gets plunked, then we have a reason for concern. Anyone who decided to commit a crime against a private citizen or their property should expect to be shot.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

There is a difference between a "right to bare arms" and a right to actively pursue someone with a gun intending to kill them. The general public is not trained to perform these actions safely. Should it ever become the norm, accidents will happen and more people who shouldn't be killed will die.

 

[ryan256]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: ryan256

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Here's the quandry. You have every right to protect your own property and possessions. Do you not also have the right to defend a family member's? Or a friend's? Or a neighbor's? Or a stranger's? Where is the line drawn?

Fortunately somewhere short of mowing down thieves caught in the act emerging unarmed from your neighbors house.

Fixed.
And how was he to know they were unarmed at the time. From listening to the call it sounds like they had a crowbar or some other striking instrument. Ever been hit by a big piece of metal? It most definitely qualifies as a weapon. If a criminal advances on you are you going to wait & see if he's armed before defending yourself?

"How was he to know they were unarmed?" Is that your justification for him blowing them to bits? This is quite possibly the dumbest post in the whole thread.

If they advanced on him like was stated in the call then yes and he was perfectly justified for defending himself. For all we know these criminals decided that since this man was a witness they couldn't leave him. So they tried to get rid of him. From his description he's an overweight 60 y/o. Would be very easy for some younger 30 y/o guys to overpower. Only they found out too late that trying to assault him was a bad idea.

And as for the "blowing them to bits" part. He shot them. Yes a shotgun makes some pretty big wounds. Would it have been better he used a 9mm and they bled to death? End result still the same.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
It's not about intelligence. I can guarantee you that statistically I'm probably the smartest person who has posted in this thread, no offense intended, that's just the numbers.

If you're statistically the smartest person in this thread, then I can only imagine how you stack up against the general populace of Longview

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

The whole "if you don't like it, then get out!" is the ultimate in intellectual self-pwnage. Apparently you don't know much about this country you suited up for.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

and 100 years ago Black people were lynched, times change people are mostly civilized now. death for stealing is overboard and this dude deserves to rot in hell, which he will.

Society should evolve I agree. Many times its for the better. However back in the day people didn't just bumrush houses in broad daylight because because just about every house had a double gauge waiting for them.

For the record I couldn't be further from a gun toting, busch drinking, nascar watching redneck.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Well in this case his tool was a shotgun and it becomes virtually harmless from any kind of significant distance. Which is why it is often recommended for home defense.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

The whole "if you don't like it, then get out!" is the ultimate in intellectual self-pwnage. Apparently you don't know much about this country you suited up for.

I swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America

I know quite well what is was about.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

You didn't spend time in uniform to defend any of our rights unless you fought in WWII. That's PR bullsh!t and you know it.

It's weird that the soldiers I know in real life are all extremely enlightened and intelligent individuals, but a lot of you who post on the internet seem to be the stereotypical "yipee ky yay" types who make great pawns of whoever is in power because you eat up whatever they feed you.

Human life is always more valuable than property. The only justifiable reason to kill another person is self defense or defense of someone else... not defense of property. It feels good to say "two scumbags off the street". How do we know that if they had lived they wouldn't have gone to prison and been reformed into outstanding members of society? What if they had ratted out a gang or something? We don't know because their lives were completely extinguished before they even had a chance to redeem themselves.

Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends. -Gandalf

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: lupi

I swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America

I know quite well what is was about.

If that was the case then you would have understood this:

Originally posted by: Xavier434
There is a difference between a "right to bare arms" and a right to actively pursue someone with a gun intending to kill them. The general public is not trained to perform these actions safely. Should it ever become the norm, accidents will happen and more people who shouldn't be killed will die.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Human life is always more valuable than property. The only justifiable reason to kill another person is self defense or defense of someone else... not defense of property. It feels good to say "two scumbags off the street". How do we know that if they had lived they wouldn't have gone to prison and been reformed into outstanding members of society? What if they had ratted out a gang or something? We don't know because their lives were completely extinguished before they even had a chance to redeem themselves.

Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends. -Gandalf

I'm just goign to be the first to say quoting LOTR was not the wisest thing you've done.

Yes, I'd agree that life is precious, but something tainted isn't worth as much as it was pure. Yes, they could have done a lot of things, maybe they were robbing a house of a future skynet developer so that humanity isn't doomed to fight against an army of arnold schwarzeneggers. I find the odds small though and just know that they've broken into someone's home and stolen what could have been life savings.

It didn't even need to be life savings, you could take 500 bucks from people and it'll completely ruin their last year of saving for christmas. Their hard working hours are worth more to me then years from a thief.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

You didn't spend time in uniform to defend any of our rights unless you fought in WWII. That's PR bullsh!t and you know it.

It's weird that the soldiers I know in real life are all extremely enlightened and intelligent individuals, but a lot of you who post on the internet seem to be the stereotypical "yipee ky yay" types who make great pawns of whoever is in power because you eat up whatever they feed you.

Human life is always more valuable than property. The only justifiable reason to kill another person is self defense or defense of someone else... not defense of property. It feels good to say "two scumbags off the street". How do we know that if they had lived they wouldn't have gone to prison and been reformed into outstanding members of society? What if they had ratted out a gang or something? We don't know because their lives were completely extinguished before they even had a chance to redeem themselves.

Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends. -Gandalf

I'll take a bet that if they lived they would probably be robbing yet another house, maybe even yours.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I'm all for this. 100 years ago this would not have gotten a second look, he would have been a local hero.

It's all peechy until you get some drunk asshole with a gun running outside unloading clips which fly through the neighbor's windows instead of the criminals. I don't trust the average joe to be granted that kind of power.

Too bad I spent my time in uniform so my children could continue to excersize that power.

Don't like it, ihear there is a rather easy to cross border down south.

You didn't spend time in uniform to defend any of our rights unless you fought in WWII. That's PR bullsh!t and you know it.

It's weird that the soldiers I know in real life are all extremely enlightened and intelligent individuals, but a lot of you who post on the internet seem to be the stereotypical "yipee ky yay" types who make great pawns of whoever is in power because you eat up whatever they feed you.

Human life is always more valuable than property. The only justifiable reason to kill another person is self defense or defense of someone else... not defense of property. It feels good to say "two scumbags off the street". How do we know that if they had lived they wouldn't have gone to prison and been reformed into outstanding members of society? What if they had ratted out a gang or something? We don't know because their lives were completely extinguished before they even had a chance to redeem themselves.

Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends. -Gandalf

I'll take a bet that if they lived they would probably be robbing yet another house, maybe even yours.

Yes and we don't execute people based on a reasonable presumption in this country. You better be damn glad too.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: edro
He murdered them.

I am all for gun owner rights and a right to protect yourself... but witnessing a theft does not give you the right to murder.

You're right it doesn't give you a right to murder, it gives you a right to defend ones property, in Texas anyways which is where this happened.

In Texas you can use deadly force to stop the commission of a crime, including burglary and theft. Another one is criminal mischief at night.

He acted fully within the scope of Texas law.

Another reason why Texas sucks.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
2 robbers off the street, and one MURDERING PIECE OF SHIT on it. What kind of sick asshole defends this guy?

Shiner...always.

I have no use for criminals.

Like some others, I have also experienced being robbed. Though we stopped them and the only reason they lived through it is BECAUSE THEY HAD THEIR KIDS WITH THEM and my Dad and I didn't feel like killing them in front of their kids.

Here is the Cliff's Notes version:

Dad and I are going out to some land we own to repair fence.
As we pull up to the gate we find it has been taken off its hinges
We park the truck and get out. Armed.
We find 2 middle aged guys, a middle aged woman and about 5 kids have broken into the barn and storage building and are taking everything they can get their hands on.
We yell for them to stop.
One of the guys tries to rush us.
Dad puts a bullet into the ground between the guy's legs.
Stand off ensues.
Woman is going nuts and keeps inching toward me with a broom handle(for some reason) all the while holding 2 of her kids in front of her as a shield.
I finally tell her that if she takes one more step I can and will blow her head off without hesitation and she has to decide if she wants her kids to be covered in blood and see her dead.
One of the guys again tries to rush my Dad.
Another warning shot.
After nearly an hour of this the sheriff finally arrives. His first words to the thieves "Oh it is just you." then he turns to my Dad and says "You should have just killed them."
Deputies arrive and the people are rounded up. All the while with the woman and one of the men screaming "I know who you are. We'll get you old man!" Like some fucked up Scooby Doo episode ending.
DHS finally arrives and takes the kids.

I was also robbed at gunpoint once when I was in high school and was working the morning shift at Arby's when a guy walked in, put a pistol in my face and demanded our money.

I was also involved in a drive by shooting in college due to mistaken identity. Thugs meant to target the house a couple of down from us, got the wrong house and blew out every window in the front of our house and riddled the inside of the house with bullets. Luckily my roommates and I just happened to be in the den which was a converted garage and the side that faced the street was brick.

I have no use for criminals.

I predict you have, or eventually will do time for some form of negligent manslaughter/ homicide/assault, based on the fact that you drool over every vigilante thread to come on this forum.

Either that or you love to bark, but have no bite.

Best wishes.

:clock:

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
2 robbers off the street, and one MURDERING PIECE OF SHIT on it. What kind of sick asshole defends this guy?

Shiner...always.

I have no use for criminals.

Like some others, I have also experienced being robbed. Though we stopped them and the only reason they lived through it is BECAUSE THEY HAD THEIR KIDS WITH THEM and my Dad and I didn't feel like killing them in front of their kids.

Here is the Cliff's Notes version:

Dad and I are going out to some land we own to repair fence.
As we pull up to the gate we find it has been taken off its hinges
We park the truck and get out. Armed.
We find 2 middle aged guys, a middle aged woman and about 5 kids have broken into the barn and storage building and are taking everything they can get their hands on.
We yell for them to stop.
One of the guys tries to rush us.
Dad puts a bullet into the ground between the guy's legs.
Stand off ensues.
Woman is going nuts and keeps inching toward me with a broom handle(for some reason) all the while holding 2 of her kids in front of her as a shield.
I finally tell her that if she takes one more step I can and will blow her head off without hesitation and she has to decide if she wants her kids to be covered in blood and see her dead.
One of the guys again tries to rush my Dad.
Another warning shot.
After nearly an hour of this the sheriff finally arrives. His first words to the thieves "Oh it is just you." then he turns to my Dad and says "You should have just killed them."
Deputies arrive and the people are rounded up. All the while with the woman and one of the men screaming "I know who you are. We'll get you old man!" Like some fucked up Scooby Doo episode ending.
DHS finally arrives and takes the kids.

I was also robbed at gunpoint once when I was in high school and was working the morning shift at Arby's when a guy walked in, put a pistol in my face and demanded our money.

I was also involved in a drive by shooting in college due to mistaken identity. Thugs meant to target the house a couple of down from us, got the wrong house and blew out every window in the front of our house and riddled the inside of the house with bullets. Luckily my roommates and I just happened to be in the den which was a converted garage and the side that faced the street was brick.

I have no use for criminals.

A second warning shot? Your dad was feeling extremely generous. Never heard of second warning shots. The second warning shot should have been in his knee.

 

[OutHouse]

i defended this guy in the P&N thread but after getting the full details from the audio log i would have to reverse my position and say that this guy was clearly in the wrong. he clearly wanted to kill them, not just stop them but he went out there for the sole purpose of killing them. he is going to pay for it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'm gonna kill them.

This is where he crossed the line from protecting his neighbor's property to murder.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
2 robbers off the street, and one MURDERING PIECE OF SHIT on it. What kind of sick asshole defends this guy?

Shiner...always.

I have no use for criminals.

Like some others, I have also experienced being robbed. Though we stopped them and the only reason they lived through it is BECAUSE THEY HAD THEIR KIDS WITH THEM and my Dad and I didn't feel like killing them in front of their kids.

Here is the Cliff's Notes version:

Dad and I are going out to some land we own to repair fence.
As we pull up to the gate we find it has been taken off its hinges
We park the truck and get out. Armed.
We find 2 middle aged guys, a middle aged woman and about 5 kids have broken into the barn and storage building and are taking everything they can get their hands on.
We yell for them to stop.
One of the guys tries to rush us.
Dad puts a bullet into the ground between the guy's legs.
Stand off ensues.
Woman is going nuts and keeps inching toward me with a broom handle(for some reason) all the while holding 2 of her kids in front of her as a shield.
I finally tell her that if she takes one more step I can and will blow her head off without hesitation and she has to decide if she wants her kids to be covered in blood and see her dead.
One of the guys again tries to rush my Dad.
Another warning shot.
After nearly an hour of this the sheriff finally arrives. His first words to the thieves "Oh it is just you." then he turns to my Dad and says "You should have just killed them."
Deputies arrive and the people are rounded up. All the while with the woman and one of the men screaming "I know who you are. We'll get you old man!" Like some fucked up Scooby Doo episode ending.
DHS finally arrives and takes the kids.

I was also robbed at gunpoint once when I was in high school and was working the morning shift at Arby's when a guy walked in, put a pistol in my face and demanded our money.

I was also involved in a drive by shooting in college due to mistaken identity. Thugs meant to target the house a couple of down from us, got the wrong house and blew out every window in the front of our house and riddled the inside of the house with bullets. Luckily my roommates and I just happened to be in the den which was a converted garage and the side that faced the street was brick.

I have no use for criminals.

A second warning shot? Your dad was feeling extremely generous. Never heard of second warning shots. The second warning shot should have been in his knee.

It was because the kids were there. Dad kept telling them "I don't want to have to kill you in front of your kids, but I will."

And he would never shoot to wound.