Question Linux on a USB or VM?

[biostud]

@Steltek Yeah, but flatpaks suck performance-wise. The last time I had one for a browser, it started as quickly as a native app I had in a VM running off a HDD!


Give it a chance For example, instead of going to a website, downloading an install program, waiting for it to download, going through several clicks to install it, then repeat that for however many apps you need to install, best case scenario on Linux is that you type a command like:

sudo apt install vlc

It asks for your password and then just installs it. Also, app updates are all rolled into one system, click on an icon on your taskbar, it lists the updates, click on update all, it asks for your password, done.

You can of course use whatever GUI-based app install system on whatever Linux distro you've picked, for example sometimes I prefer to use the synaptic package manager when I want to search for stuff in the repository.

Of course it's not all roses and sunshine with Linux, there are some things that are a PITA, just bear in mind there are definitely some things on Windows that are a PITA and people have just gotten used to thinking "that's the way things are".

Yeah, I have no problem with it today, because I want to learn it, so as long as I'm not gaining I'm simply doing everything in my Linux VM to learn

It is just so much easier learning when you can do it in a safe VM environment, where you know you're not going to break anything important and if you get annoyed, you can simply tab back into Windows.

 

[Steltek]

Yeah, I have no problem with it today, because I want to learn it, so as long as I'm not gaining I'm simply doing everything in my Linux VM to learn

It is just so much easier learning when you can do it in a safe VM environment, where you know you're not going to break anything important and if you get annoyed, you can simply tab back into Windows.

I agree, as most people find it easier to learn such things by actually doing them. And, virtual machines are absolutely great for that.

Besides the terminal, one of the other things the average user has issues with is that crazy Linux file system directory structure. I've been using it for 15 years and still haven't bothered to learn everything about it that I really should have....

 

[mikeymikec]

Besides the terminal, one of the other things the average user has issues with is that crazy Linux file system. I've been using it for 15 years and still haven't bothered to learn everything about it that I really should have....

What do you mean?

Flatpaks might suck, but it is easy for a beginner, who is balancing trying to learn an entirely new OS with different ways of doing things, to grasp.

Obviously apt/apt-get is the best way to go once you know what you are doing. However, trying to show my 76 year old mother how to do a terminal command wouldn't go over well.

She is, however, perfectly able to install a flatpak from the Mint software manager though if she uses one of my machines.

One annoying thing about Mint is that, to use their upgrade process to upgrade to new versions, you often have to delete out all your 3rd party PPAs before the upgrade will run. Then, you have to re-enter them after the upgrade. Which is very annoying.

The Mint software manager gives out standard packages as well as flatpaks. Now that @manly mentioned snaps, I'm just trying to remember which one was dog slow. Are both slow?

Speaking of command line, back in the mid 1990s, if you wanted a GUI on Linux, you often had to hand craft your own XFree86.config file for your video card. Those were the (bad old) days. By the late 1990s, there was some auto generation of this critical file, but it still took years of efforts to really smooth out.

And you still only got software rendering.

One thing that hasn't completely changed is the peril of straying from the repository version to a newer version though. I've learnt to stick to the reasonably recent-ish version of LibreOffice from the main repository because - at least on Ubuntu derivatives - strange bugs start to creep in, like for example the spreadsheet sort UI taking nearly ten seconds to appear!

It is just so much easier learning when you can do it in a safe VM environment, where you know you're not going to break anything important and if you get annoyed, you can simply tab back into Windows.

Yep, I think it is probably what made my migration to Linux possible for the same reasons as you. This time though I didn't have to contend with graphics driver issues or anything like that (I stick to AMD graphics cards partly because I know the amdgpu driver just works).

 

[Steltek]

What do you mean?



The Mint software manager gives out standard packages as well as flatpaks. Now that @manly mentioned snaps, I'm just trying to remember which one was dog slow. Are both slow?

Yeah, that wasn't what I intended to say. Blood glucose swings do that with diabetes when they occur when you are already tired. Not problems with the file system itself (which is fine), but rather the Linux directory structure. I've tried to explain it to Windows users and have figuratively watched their eyes cross. Especially since a lot of the online information about it isn't consistent about where the user should put what. Whereas, with Windows, you can pretty much put anything anywhere you want.

As far as the flatpaks are concerned, I only have a couple installed. One of them is the Waterfox browser which I installed more out of curiosity than anything else. Admittedly, it is noticeably slower to update (due to the container) than a natively installed application. And, running on spinning rust it is noticeably slower than native apps. However, when running on an SSD I don't see any substantial performance difference between it and natively installed Firefox.

Can't speak to snaps as I've never bothered to use any of them due to their reputation.

 

[mikeymikec]

Yeah, that wasn't what I intended to say. Blood glucose swings do that with diabetes when they occur when you are already tired. Not problems with the file system itself (which is fine), but rather the Linux directory structure. I've tried to explain it to Windows users and have figuratively watched their eyes cross. Especially since a lot of the online information about it isn't consistent about where the user should put what. Whereas, with Windows, you can pretty much put anything anywhere you want.

I imagine it's more about what goes on in /dev for example that my blow their mind, though if you go far back enough into Windows' history then you start finding things that => Windows NT users might find a bit weird too.

There's plenty of places where Windows wants to keep the user out with permissions, and even weirder places where Windows likes to pretend a file doesn't exist (looking at you, BCD)...

I think one problem with the filesystem in Linux is that it has so many roots with OS's and conflicting/confusing rules because of those roots.

Because I grew up with AmigaOS as my first OS, I think it was easier for me to grasp when other OS's do things differently. Maybe when someone is a Windows boy from cradle to present day then things that seemed completely ordinary get challenged.

As far as the flatpaks are concerned, I only have a couple installed. One of them is the Waterfox browser which I installed more out of curiosity than anything else. Admittedly, it is noticeably slower to update (due to the container) than a natively installed application. And, running on spinning rust it is noticeably slower than native apps. However, when running on an SSD I don't see any substantial performance difference between it and natively installed Firefox.

Can't speak to snaps as I've never bothered to use any of them due to their reputation.

It might also be when you throw obscene amounts of horsepower at flatpaks/snaps that they start performing more 'normally'; I haven't knowingly tried any on my AM5 setup but the difference was definitely noticeable on my previous (Haswell) build (perhaps back when I ran an ubuntu derivative).

I just looked up how to check for snaps and flatpaks, apparently no snaps installed (I think the Mint team took issue with them?) and the only flatpaks are core GUI stuff installed by Mint and the theme I've chosen... ah, two packages, Foliate and Handbrake.

 

[mikeymikec]

@biostud - a tactic that my conversation with Steltek reminded me of that you might want to start doing yourself: I keep a journal of stuff I've learnt on Linux. I tend to also include URLs of pages I found the information from in case I want to look for more on that topic. It's really handy not to have to go searching the Internet for something again only to end up using different keywords and not finding what you want.

 

[biostud]

@biostud - a tactic that my conversation with Steltek reminded me of that you might want to start doing yourself: I keep a journal of stuff I've learnt on Linux. I tend to also include URLs of pages I found the information from in case I want to look for more on that topic. It's really handy not to have to go searching the Internet for something again only to end up using different keywords and not finding what you want.

I'll probably take it slowly, this thread has already spawned a lot of questions that I need to look into.

Basically I don't do much advanced stuff on my computer, so I simply want to try it as my daily driver and every time I need to try something new, I need to find a solution.

Just the horror of maybe having chosen the wrong distro to start with, is something different than Windows.

Then whether which type of of Linux, which version of Ubuntu, should it be Gnome? Which GUI, packages? Flatpaks? Installing and downloading via prompt, so much lingo and differences that needs to be learned.

 

[Steltek]

I'll probably take it slowly, this thread has already spawned a lot of questions that I need to look into.

Basically I don't do much advanced stuff on my computer, so I simply want to try it as my daily driver and every time I need to try something new, I need to find a solution.

Just the horror of maybe having chosen the wrong distro to start with, is something different than Windows.

Then whether which type of of Linux, which version of Ubuntu, should it be Gnome? Which GUI, packages? Flatpaks? Installing and downloading via prompt, so much lingo and differences that needs to be learned.

Then, pretty much any distro will meet your needs for now.

As you get more experience, you may decide you want to try other desktop environments. I originally started out using Gnome and KDE (and, later KDE Plasma), then went to MATE when they started making changes to Gnome I didn't like. Cinnamon is also a nice maturing desktop as well.

And, while Mint is a great distro with a solid user community for support, you might at some point decide you don't like something about it. The nice thing about Linux (especially running it in a VM) is that you can just download an ISO for any available distribution and create a VM to install it in. You even actually have the opportunity to try it out before you run the installer.

Distrowatch is a good website where you can find info about various distros to install and try.

 

[mikeymikec]

@biostud

Re recent desktop environments, I've used:

LXDE - Comes with Lubuntu, it's meant to be a lightweight environment and I got on well with the version that came with 18.04 LTS but more recent versions were buggy in weird and wonderful ways.

KDE Plasma - Comes with Kubuntu, I tried 20.04 but it seems that *Ubuntu 20.04 is cursed in weird and wonderful ways. I think I also tried it on Debian afterwards, still not much luck with it.

Cinnamon - Comes with Mint Cinnamon 21.x. Works for me.

+1 Steltek's advice re VM - I had multiple VMs to play around with different distros/variations, and for a good time after migrating to Linux I tried stuff out that I was worried about breaking my main setup.

I stick to LTS versions of distros because I can't be doing with the idea of having to do an OS upgrade every year.

 

[Indus]

I'll probably take it slowly, this thread has already spawned a lot of questions that I need to look into.

Basically I don't do much advanced stuff on my computer, so I simply want to try it as my daily driver and every time I need to try something new, I need to find a solution.

Just the horror of maybe having chosen the wrong distro to start with, is something different than Windows.

Then whether which type of of Linux, which version of Ubuntu, should it be Gnome? Which GUI, packages? Flatpaks? Installing and downloading via prompt, so much lingo and differences that needs to be learned.

May I suggest you start with LMDE -- the most stable (one update every 2 year cycle built on windows 7 (linux calls it cinnamon)

You can always go to an advanced distro later if you want but I'm super happy with slow updates, no messing around and it just working.

Download LMDE 6 - Linux Mint

Linux Mint is an elegant, easy to use, up to date and comfortable desktop operating system.

www.linuxmint.com

P.S. You said you might try Ubuntu.. I'd wait and give LMDE a shot first.. and it so happens:

Ubuntu is based on Debian and relies on Debian to be updated first.

LMDE stands for Linux Mint Debian Edition (so you get the update first).. besides if my wife can use it who is totally computer illiterate and hates passwords.. just wants it to work.. you can too!

Easy first time guide:

 

[biostud]

May I suggest you start with LMDE -- the most stable (one update every 2 year cycle built on windows 7 (linux calls it cinnamon)

You can always go to an advanced distro later if you want but I'm super happy with slow updates, no messing around and it just working.

Download LMDE 6 - Linux Mint

Linux Mint is an elegant, easy to use, up to date and comfortable desktop operating system.

www.linuxmint.com

P.S. You said you might try Ubuntu.. I'd wait and give LMDE a shot first.. and it so happens:

Ubuntu is based on Debian and relies on Debian to be updated first.

LMDE stands for Linux Mint Debian Edition (so you get the update first).. besides if my wife can use it who is totally computer illiterate and hates passwords.. just wants it to work.. you can too!

Easy first time guide:

I did actually choose to install Mint

So far so good.

 

[biostud]

Well I'm strongly considering a dual boot linux mint machine.

I really don't like the way Microsoft is moving windows, and frankly I'm not liking the way US is turning so I'm starting to question were I should store my data and who should have access to them.

I'm considering ditching my Office365 + OneDrive Family plan and moving to pCloud, buying a 5TB family lifetime plan

pCloud is a company based in Switzerland and you can choose US or EU servers for your data and provides clients for Windows, Mac, Android and Linux

pCloud - Best Cloud Storage Pricing & Cost Plans

Secure Swiss cloud storage plans with all kinds of variations. You can go with the monthly, yearly and even lifetime option! You can add encryption too!

landing.pcloud.com

Then buying another 1TB SN850X for a Linux drive.

Any thoughts?

 

[mikeymikec]

pcloud is a bit different to most cloud storage clients in that the files aren't stored on your computer as natively as say OneDrive/Dropbox etc. I assume there's a bunch of cache files sitting in %localappdata% as the backup system I set up for a customer which robocopies the data from P drive appears to work without having to redownload everything every time.

I would be curious to know how well pcloud works if the Internet connection suddenly went off.

 

[mikeymikec]

Recently, Ubuntu kind of has a poor reputation for not being rock solid.* So I will only use their LTS releases

I would amend this to "even Ubuntu's LTS releases have a poor reputation" <shrugs>
I went through a few around the year 2020 and eventually settled on Mint to my continued satisfaction.

 

[biostud]

pcloud is a bit different to most cloud storage clients in that the files aren't stored on your computer as natively as say OneDrive/Dropbox etc. I assume there's a bunch of cache files sitting in %localappdata% as the backup system I set up for a customer which robocopies the data from P drive appears to work without having to redownload everything every time.

I would be curious to know how well pcloud works if the Internet connection suddenly went off.

As I understand it you can use the "Sync" function, and then add the folders you want to sync automatically.

 

[lxskllr]

Generally speaking, I prefer using services with a 100% libre software stack. If something goes wrong with the company, you can take your toys elsewhere. I don't use full cloud backup(Yes, I know I'm wrong), but I've been happy using a nextcloud instance provided by my email provider for files I want access to anywhere. I can point my clients to any nextcloud instance, and it'll Just Work™. I can also host myself if I choose, and/or alter the software, or pay someone to do it for me.

I'm not giving specific recommendations, but a philosophy I follow. That philosophy doesn't always make my life easier, but it allows options, and I like options.

 

[biostud]

Generally speaking, I prefer using services with a 100% libre software stack. If something goes wrong with the company, you can take your toys elsewhere. I don't use full cloud backup(Yes, I know I'm wrong), but I've been happy using a nextcloud instance provided by my email provider for files I want access to anywhere. I can point my clients to any nextcloud instance, and it'll Just Work™. I can also host myself if I choose, and/or alter the software, or pay someone to do it for me.

I'm not giving specific recommendations, but a philosophy I follow. That philosophy doesn't always make my life easier, but it allows options, and I like options.

I think it is a combination of ease of use and functionality. Basically I need a place store securely backup my photos and share them with my family and some personal documents. So my files will always be stored locally + backed up to and external hard drive and synced online.

I'm very open to suggestions for better products, but it has to work on all platforms also mobile without too much of a hassle.

 

[manly]

Well I'm strongly considering a dual boot linux mint machine.

I really don't like the way Microsoft is moving windows, and frankly I'm not liking the way US is turning so I'm starting to question were I should store my data and who should have access to them.

I'm considering ditching my Office365 + OneDrive Family plan and moving to pCloud, buying a 5TB family lifetime plan

pCloud is a company based in Switzerland and you can choose US or EU servers for your data and provides clients for Windows, Mac, Android and Linux

pCloud - Best Cloud Storage Pricing & Cost Plans

Secure Swiss cloud storage plans with all kinds of variations. You can go with the monthly, yearly and even lifetime option! You can add encryption too!

landing.pcloud.com

Then buying another 1TB SN850X for a Linux drive.

Any thoughts?

Reasonable people think there's no such thing as lifetime storage at a fixed cost. Can they build a sustainable business model without recurring revenue? (The short answer is that you probably can't, not in a high CoL place such as CH). I see they have some monthly plans as well.

There are a few companies profitable enough to give away free storage indefinitely, but a) it's the freemium model and b) Google gives you 15GB, Apple a pitiful 5GB.

I'm not saying don't sign up for pCloud, but it would take a lot to convince me, personally. Wow they claim 20M+ users.

 

[mikeymikec]

Reasonable people think there's no such thing as lifetime storage at a fixed cost. Can they build a sustainable business model without recurring revenue? (The short answer is that you probably can't, not in a high CoL place such as CH). I see they have some monthly plans as well.

Ah, are they one of those companies? Stinks to me like a "you are the product" situation.

 

[biostud]

Reasonable people think there's no such thing as lifetime storage at a fixed cost. Can they build a sustainable business model without recurring revenue? (The short answer is that you probably can't, not in a high CoL place such as CH). I see they have some monthly plans as well.

There are a few companies profitable enough to give away free storage indefinitely, but a) it's the freemium model and b) Google gives you 15GB, Apple a pitiful 5GB.

I'm not saying don't sign up for pCloud, but it would take a lot to convince me, personally. Wow they claim 20M+ users.

Their business plans are all subscription based.

But after reading some more it might not be the right choice.

Anyone has recommendations for an all platform service?

 

[biostud]

Ah, are they one of those companies? Stinks to me like a "you are the product" situation.

They've existed since 2013.

 

[lxskllr]

What's your budget? I'm reluctant to recommend anything cause I don't know your exact use case, and my usage of cloud services is very limited. I am familiar with nextcloud, and can confirm it works on gnu/linux and android. They also support windows and apple, but I've never used those.

Hetzner is a name I recognize(never used them), and they have nextcloud servers available. Their prices are here...

Managed nextcloud: cheap cloud storage

Managed nextcloud by Hetzner: safe, cheap cloud storage. ✓ GDPR-compliant ✓ simple and custom ✓ 100 % green electricity

www.hetzner.com

On nextcloud's site, you can signup with a free provider here...

Sign up for a free Nextcloud account

Sign up with one of our providers and get a free home user Nextcloud account at one of our certified providers

nextcloud.com

You only get a couple gb of storage, and I can't vouch for the providers, but it would give you something to play with to see if it'll work for you.

 

[biostud]

What's your budget? I'm reluctant to recommend anything cause I don't know your exact use case, and my usage of cloud services is very limited. I am familiar with nextcloud, and can confirm it works on gnu/linux and android. They also support windows and apple, but I've never used those.

Hetzner is a name I recognize(never used them), and they have nextcloud servers available. Their prices are here...

Managed nextcloud: cheap cloud storage

Managed nextcloud by Hetzner: safe, cheap cloud storage. ✓ GDPR-compliant ✓ simple and custom ✓ 100 % green electricity

www.hetzner.com

On nextcloud's site, you can signup with a free provider here...

Sign up for a free Nextcloud account

Sign up with one of our providers and get a free home user Nextcloud account at one of our certified providers

nextcloud.com

You only get a couple gb of storage, and I can't vouch for the providers, but it would give you something to play with to see if it'll work for you.

Currently I have the Microsoft 365 family plan which is great value for me as I have four kids which each can get an account when they are old enough and me and my wife both use ours for our personal files and photos, and maybe I'll just end up keeping that, as the ease of use and value is pretty high. But the lack of a dedicated linux client is a downside.

Instead of buying a new SSD I just partitioned my 2TB SATA SSD and will install Linux Mint on a 500GB partition and dual boot, then I can move from VM to Dual boot to get a real feeling of running Linux as my main OS, before taking a major decision.

I also need the solution to be fairly easy to manage and use for my wife and kids.

 

[biostud]

Well I found this for OneDrive on Linux I will try

onedrive/docs/ubuntu-package-install.md at master · abraunegg/onedrive

OneDrive Client for Linux. Contribute to abraunegg/onedrive development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

But if anyone wonders why Linux is not as popular as Windows maybe these installation instructions are what would scare 99% of regular computer users away

Step 1: Add the OpenSuSE Build Service repository release key​

Add the OpenSuSE Build Service repository release key using the following command:

wget -qO - https://download.opensuse.org/repos...ian-ubuntu-onedrive/xUbuntu_24.04/Release.key | gpg --dearmor | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/obs-onedrive.gpg > /dev/null

Step 2: Add the OpenSuSE Build Service repository​

Add the OpenSuSE Build Service repository using the following command:

echo "deb [arch=$(dpkg --print-architecture) signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/obs-onedrive.gpg] https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-ubuntu-onedrive/xUbuntu_24.04/ ./" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/onedrive.list

Step 3: Update your apt package cache​

Run: sudo apt-get update

Step 4: Install 'onedrive'​

Run: sudo apt install --no-install-recommends --no-install-suggests onedrive

 

[biostud]

I'm wondering, has anyone ever tried to make a "GitHub" store or something similar for Linux?

Basically a place where you could simply search for something like this OneDrive app, click install and it would determine your Linux version and run or (prompt you) all the correct commands to get the software installed, or would that be against the security idea of Linux?