Originally posted by: loic2003
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Now, about your suggested scenerio. Let me tell you how I personally would handle it, and keep it legal. We're walking on the street and people come up to us. I position myself slightly in front and to the side of her, keeping as many as possible in my field of vision...preferably with hard cover on one or more sides. We stop walking 25' or more from them to judge their actions. If at this point they infer that they are going to rob us, I begin backup up while telling my gf to call 911. I turn 3/4 from them and (keeping my hadns in front of me in plain view) tell them that we don't want any trouble, but we will not be giving them anything, that we're calling the police and if they attempt to harm us I will defend myself. If they have no weapons, and they push towards us, I really have very little choice by melee combat, though I will strike to incapacitate (eyes, throat, temple). If any of them have anything I can consider a weapon (ANYTHING), I draw, aim at center mass and shout for them to throw down their weapons or I'll fire. If they don't, I kill every single one of them. If it goes physical at any point, I tell my gf to run like hell to a public place and wait for the police.
The point of this is that I don't draw unless I can prove iminent threat. That doesn't mean I have to be a victim and give them my money or car. I can refuse. Then when I refuse, if they try to make it physical I have the right to kill them. See how that places the responsibility on them? VERY important to keep this in mind.
Load of bollocks. Are you saying you stop 25' away from anyone who looks dodgy and call the police? I like the way you think you could take on a group of men, and then when things start going bad for you if by chance the martial arts moves you saw in a Jacky Chan movie don't quite work out,
then you think about drawing your gun. Here's a hint: check out what happens in robberies. There isn't some standoff at 25' where you keep all these bad guys in check, then some hand to hand combat, then you get the chance to pull out a weapon.
Real fights are very quick, especially when it's several people against one. You'll be out cold and robbed in no time.
They'll wait to get close to you so you don't have a chance to pull out a gun. Criminals aren't dozy fools waiting to be punched in the head as hollywood portrays. It'll happen faster than you think, and by the time you even think about being a heroboy you'll have been robbed and smacked in the head such that you're dazed and without a wallet. Ciminals know about the advantage the element of suprise provides too, you know?
What would be your plan of action in the more realistic scenario where a few guys appear to be walking past you in the other direction, then just after you cross they put a gun against your and your woman's temples and and tell you to hand over your wallet? Couple of dragon punches? No. You'll hand over your wallet as well as your woman's, and they'll probably steal your gun too. Then you'll go home, cry about it, and buy an even bigger gun 'for next time'.
I do agree that pulling a gun infront of a group of 'bad guys' will likely just get you killed very quickly. Best sensible option is to keep your cash separate from your wallet, that way you can calmly hand over the wallet thus avoiding physical danger, phone to have your cards cancelled shortly after and then you've effectively lost nothing other than your wallet (and possibly your phone). I suppose this might be too much of a simple solution, however, and just not in keeping with the american way.
How many years experience in such things do you have exactly? Because I have more than a dozen, plus a dozen more of training before that. I have real world experience along with my extensive education...what do you have?
That's what I thought.
Now, to dissect your idiocy.
If I'm in a bad area, yes I react with extreme caution to dicey situations. I will cross the street to avoid possible threats, stop and watch things to assess the possible scenerios, etc. If a 'group of seedy individuals' (as alluded to in the original post) were totally intent on doing harm, it can be fairly obvious. Generally criminals in the group mindset experience feelings of superiority and invincibility, and they display this openly. What I specifically said was that we would watch them to judge their actions, and only if threat was proven would we call the police.
I understand that for many of you reading is at about a 3rd grade level, but you should really try to get at least a general idea of what someone posts before you make yourself look utterly stupid in responding.
To move on; 'group' wasn't defined, and could therefore be only 3 or 4 people. While no one wants to try those odds in melee combat, I've done it before (on quite a few occassions) and am confident in my chances of success providing no weapons become involved. Remember that I've been teaching self-defense for years, and studying it for decades before. I have more than a decade of experience with many years netting me more than 200 fights/physical conflicts. I have more hand to hand experience than most people could possibly imagine, including law enforcement, military and professional fighters.
Drawing my gun on unarmed men (providing the group was small enough), would be illegal and I would face criminal charges for anything that happened thereafter. I can ONLY draw my gun if there's imminent threat of serious harm or death. If the 'group' is 10 grown men (not teens or something) and they have expressed willingness and intent to harm someone, THEN I could draw my weapon and have a reasonable chance to avoid charges...but ONLY then.
Yes, criminals attempt to utilize surprise. I negate that advantage by being always 100% on guard. Period. I have spent my entire life in dangerous jobs where awareness and observation were absolutely required for survival. My instincts and reflexes are honed. Furthermore I have infinitely more experience in combat than 99% of the population.
To respond to your scenerio: It's unlikely that someone would manage to do that unless I was HIGHLY distracted at the time, but for sake of argument let's say it happened that way. I calmly agree to hand over my wallet and (turning my gun side slightly away to keep it concealed) I pass it over...reassuring them the entire time that they will get whatever they want. Since they have no idea I have a gun, it doesn't get stolen (btw, talk about far fetched scenerios, exactly how do these guys in your scenerio suddenly acquire the telepathy needed to ascertain that I'm carrying?). After they depart we retreat to a safe location and contact authorities. It's worth noting, however, that statistically speaking your scenerio almost never occurs. Most robberies (even strongarms) do not begin with a weapon in play. Criminals usually make the demand and then (or concurrently) display that they have a weapon. Few will draw it initially to avoid attention. This provides certain avenues of action not expressly available in your proposed scenerio.
The basic flaw in your post is two-fold: 1 you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to criminal theory and statistics, and 2 you don't know who I am.
It's a terrible failure of modern mankind to assume that reality for everyone is what it is for themselves. This is untrue. People are different, with different skills, abilities, beliefs, and experiences. You'd do well to remember that.
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