Liberal reasons not to celebrate Christmas.

[Zebo]

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/NoChristmas.html

 

[beyoku]

And this is why i said in another thread "screw christmas".
I cant see WHY Christians cant simply give this B.S. up?
If you know why please answer.

 

[Zebo]

Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

If you are a Christian, the fact that Christmas is a rip-off of pagan rituals should be completely unacceptable. Christ?s birth was not December 25, and none of today?s secular customs celebrate it. Furthermore, the Christ of the Gospels was an advocate of the poor; countless texts tell of his scorn for greed, money and the rich. The same goes for Saint Nicholas, the 4th Century Myran bishop who secretly gave anonymous gifts to the poor. The crass commercialization of Christmas today makes a mockery both Christian history and belief.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

a holiday that involves giving is materialistic?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

a holiday that involves giving is materialistic?

You missed the point of the article. Giving is exactly what it talk about.

 

[glenn1]

Big ficken whoop. Another article by someone who's cheap and doesn't want to buy presents. He even manages to work in an environmental complaint about Christmas trees. Evidently the tree huggers only care for trees when they're "old growth," since these are going to have lights and ornaments hung on them they don't even help fight global warming, they contribute to it :roll:

Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

That is perhaps the stupidest juxtaposition I've ever seen in ATPN, and that's saying something.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

the holiday celebrates "getting" as much as it does giving these days. your point is pretty much moot charrison.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

a holiday that involves giving is materialistic?

You missed the point of the article. Giving is exactly what it talk about.

Giving is not materalistic.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
the holiday celebrates "getting" as much as it does giving these days. your point is pretty much moot charrison.

Well one cannot give without someone else getting.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

a holiday that involves giving is materialistic?

You missed the point of the article. Giving is exactly what it talk about.

Giving is not materalistic.

Well, i finally found one thing i can agree with you about.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: glenn1
Big ficken whoop. Another article by someone who's cheap and doesn't want to buy presents. He even manages to work in an environmental complaint about Christmas trees. Evidently the tree huggers only care for trees when they're "old growth," since these are going to have lights and ornaments hung on them they don't even help fight global warming, they contribute to it :roll:

Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

That is perhaps the stupidest juxtaposition I've ever seen in ATPN, and that's saying something.

I don't see why it's stupid. Getting stuff, killing people, celebrating peagan rituals and just about everything modern christians do is an antheisis to Jesus' teachings

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

a holiday that involves giving is materialistic?

You missed the point of the article. Giving is exactly what it talk about.

Giving is not materalistic.

Well, i finally found one thing i can agree with you about.

Stranger things have happened😀

 

[glenn1]

I don't see why it's stupid. Getting stuff, killing people, celebrating peagan rituals and just about everything modern christians do is an antheisis to Jesus' teachings

Sorry, but from your tone of hostility to Christians I hardly accept your expertise in what constitutes an "antithesis" to Jesus's teachings. I doubt you know what they are apart from some spoon fed morsels you've experienced from popular culture. You seem to have fallen for the hippy Jesus living in a commune image cultivated by Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar. For example, I must have missed where Jesus talked about how one has to oppose the Iraq War to be a Christian. Yes, he did say "blessed are the peacemakers," but also "do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Doesn't sound like someone who condemning warfare to me. He also didn't say a thing about his followers not giving each other gifts in the Sermon on the Mount.

But hey, you're the expert on what it takes for a Christian to be following Jesus's teachings, so I guess we'll defer to your superior theological background.

 

[Zebo]

Big ficken whoop. Another article by someone who's cheap and doesn't want to buy presents.

Gimme me a break. He's not saying that at all. He's saying don't line someone elses bank account or get caught up in buying junk no one wants. It's easy to go buywife a pair of earings. Hell I do stuff like that if I'm bored at the airport anyday. Lot harder to be a good husband, build something from scratch, spend quality time with your family or give anonymously to a person less fortunate.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: glenn1

I don't see why it's stupid. Getting stuff, killing people, celebrating peagan rituals and just about everything modern christians do is an antheisis to Jesus' teachings

Sorry, but from your tone of hostility to Christians I hardly accept your expertise in what constitutes an "antithesis" to Jesus's teachings. I doubt you know what they are apart from some spoon fed morsels you've experienced from popular culture. You seem to have fallen for the hippy Jesus living in a commune image cultivated by Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar. For example, I must have missed where Jesus talked about how one has to oppose the Iraq War to be a Christian. Yes, he did say "blessed are the peacemakers," but also "do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Doesn't sound like someone who condemning warfare to me. He also didn't say a thing about his followers not giving each other gifts in the Sermon on the Mount.

But hey, you're the expert on what it takes for a Christian to be following Jesus's teachings, so I guess we'll defer to your superior theological background.

My tone? I did not write it you moron. As I said hard to do but interesting ponits.

RE: Sword, his intension is the ensueing conflict, upsetting old world order, like here, of hearing the Word and putting it into practice in one's life and the conflict that would result even in ones family. Read it. All of mattew. Kumbaya indeed.

 

[yllus]

Since when are liberals supposed to be anti-consumption? Consumption = capitalism, am I wrong or right? The basis of all modern democracies.

Now, it turns out that Christmas also creates a boom and bust cycle, only on a yearly basis. Heightened Christmas spending causes retail stores to make 50 percent of their profits in the last three months of the year. This produces a sales drought in January and February, and weakens the rest of the year as well. Predictably, small business failures mirror this seasonal trend, adding to the nation?s income inequality.

I should point out that a disproportionate share of small business owners are women, minorities and the working poor. It is liberal constituencies who are being hurt by these booms and busts, and this should compel liberals everywhere to spread out their spending over the whole year, especially among small businesses.

Poorly supposed 'logic' at best. Why would business owners that fail to succeed magically do any better if the spending curve over time was any different?

Take Christmas trees.

Aren't forests in America more abundant in healthy trees now than in the past?

"Made in China" is the label you?ll find on many Christmas trees and most children?s toys. Unfortunately, China frequently uses prison labor to manufacture these goods, and the prisoners are often political dissidents jailed by the Butchers of Tienanmen Square. This doesn?t seem to faze the lobbyists of the U.S. toy industry, who see American children playing with toys produced under Communist tyranny as vital to America?s economic health.

The only good reason to boycott Christmas I've seen in this document yet. Of course it' should be more of an overall boycott instead of just Xmas.

Another social problem with Christmas is stress. Polls routinely show that most Americans consider Christmas to be the most stressful holiday of the year. And the number one irritant of Christmas? Fighting crowds in stores.

Another source of stress is the family reunion. Although we should certainly consider family get-togethers a positive thing, the truth remains that many families are dysfunctional, and reunions only serve to open old wounds. Statistics show that suicide rates remain about average during November and December, but they spike on New Years day, after most people return home and have the first chance to act on their depression. Society could lessen the stress and tension of Christmas and family reunions alike if it did not pressure people to celebrate it with mass consumerism and other frenzied customs.

This is just dumb. If people act like idiots and find themselves quarrelling in stores, they'll do so at any time of the year. Avoidance != problem solving.

The solution to the stress of family reunions is not to have reunions at all? Did I say dumb? I meant moronic. How about if you think you might get suicidal from seeing Uncle Bob again this year, you just make an excuse to stay away?

If you are a non-Christian, then of course the Christianization of the holiday should be unacceptable to you.

Who cares. I'm an athiest whose family has never celebrated Christmas, yet we do throw a holiday party annually this time of year. We have better things to do with our lives than to argue over precious days off from work/school.

 

[sandorski]

The Article is spot on!

 

[Klixxer]

I beg to differ, giving isn't the same as wanting, wanting something or wishing for something is one thing, many people around the world want lots of different things, we all long for something, if i could give it to you, i would.

Because, giving is the spirit of Christmas, this Christmas i am giving a lot, i am happy to be able to give what i can and i KNOW i will have what i wish for.

Giving can be much more than presents, nobody, not even me, expected me home for this Christmas, i am in Finland now, i am spending it with my children and my family.

So, at least for me and those close to me, this Christmas is very special.

Take care, all of you, and have a merry christmas, wherever you come from and whatever you believe in. 🙂

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: yllus
Since when are liberals supposed to be anti-consumption? Consumption = capitalism, am I wrong or right? The basis of all modern democracies.

capitalism has nothing to do with democracy. China is capitalist. Fascist italy was capitalist. Any time you attempt to remove or change capitalism, the capitalist class responds by annihilating the democracy. This is how Hilter, Mussilini, and many other right wing nuts came to power. On top of that, almost many democracies in the world can be described as socialist. We have a solid history in our country of working against democracies that elect socialists.

Poorly supposed 'logic' at best. Why would business owners that fail to succeed magically do any better if the spending curve over time was any different?

because during the down time between holidays, it becomes more "profitable" to shut down, ie MR =< AvC. It should only kill businesses that were at deaths door though, so I suppose its just hastening the inevitable.

"Made in China" is the label you?ll find on many Christmas trees and most children?s toys. Unfortunately, China frequently uses prison labor to manufacture these goods, and the prisoners are often political dissidents jailed by the Butchers of Tienanmen Square. This doesn?t seem to faze the lobbyists of the U.S. toy industry, who see American children playing with toys produced under Communist tyranny as vital to America?s economic health.

The only good reason to boycott Christmas I've seen in this document yet. Of course it' should be more of an overall boycott instead of just Xmas.

:thumbsup:

Another social problem with Christmas is stress. Polls routinely show that most Americans consider Christmas to be the most stressful holiday of the year. And the number one irritant of Christmas? Fighting crowds in stores.

Another source of stress is the family reunion. Although we should certainly consider family get-togethers a positive thing, the truth remains that many families are dysfunctional, and reunions only serve to open old wounds. Statistics show that suicide rates remain about average during November and December, but they spike on New Years day, after most people return home and have the first chance to act on their depression. Society could lessen the stress and tension of Christmas and family reunions alike if it did not pressure people to celebrate it with mass consumerism and other frenzied customs.

This is just dumb. If people act like idiots and find themselves quarrelling in stores, they'll do so at any time of the year. Avoidance != problem solving.

The solution to the stress of family reunions is not to have reunions at all? Did I say dumb? I meant moronic. How about if you think you might get suicidal from seeing Uncle Bob again this year, you just make an excuse to stay away?

If you are a non-Christian, then of course the Christianization of the holiday should be unacceptable to you.

Who cares. I'm an athiest whose family has never celebrated Christmas, yet we do throw a holiday party annually this time of year. We have better things to do with our lives than to argue over precious days off from work/school.

I'm all for days off from school/work, although in my point in life I am the one working late christmas eve for all the last minute shoppers 🙁

Also i'm an atheist who does celebrate christmas.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

If you are a Christian, the fact that Christmas is a rip-off of pagan rituals should be completely unacceptable. Christ?s birth was not December 25, and none of today?s secular customs celebrate it. Furthermore, the Christ of the Gospels was an advocate of the poor; countless texts tell of his scorn for greed, money and the rich. The same goes for Saint Nicholas, the 4th Century Myran bishop who secretly gave anonymous gifts to the poor. The crass commercialization of Christmas today makes a mockery both Christian history and belief.

many of christmas' most notorious customs are shrouded in pagan origins. for instance date....

it's well known jesus wasn't born on dec 25. it was originally a celebration of the rebirth of the sun god saturnella (or something to that effect).

as far as giving.....

the three wise men gave gifts to jesus NOT to eachother.
there's nothing remarkable and selfless about a bunch of rich people expectedly giving overpriced, unnecessary crap (that'll most likely be returned) to each other while the needy are just as hungry as they were on october 7th (and colder, mind you).

and suicide rates are the highest of the year.... perennially.

Merry Xmas everyone!!!!

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: slurmsmackenzie

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

If you are a Christian, the fact that Christmas is a rip-off of pagan rituals should be completely unacceptable. Christ?s birth was not December 25, and none of today?s secular customs celebrate it. Furthermore, the Christ of the Gospels was an advocate of the poor; countless texts tell of his scorn for greed, money and the rich. The same goes for Saint Nicholas, the 4th Century Myran bishop who secretly gave anonymous gifts to the poor. The crass commercialization of Christmas today makes a mockery both Christian history and belief.

many of christmas' most notorious customs are shrouded in pagan origins. for instance date....

it's well known jesus wasn't born on dec 25. it was originally a celebration of the rebirth of the sun god saturnella (or something to that effect).

as far as giving.....

the three wise men gave gifts to jesus NOT to eachother.
there's nothing remarkable and selfless about a bunch of rich people expectedly giving overpriced, unnecessary crap (that'll most likely be returned) to each other while the needy are just as hungry as they were on october 7th (and colder, mind you).

and suicide rates are the highest of the year.... perennially. [/b]

Merry Xmas everyone!!!!

Just a simple coorelation? I think not!

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: slurmsmackenzie

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

If you are a Christian, the fact that Christmas is a rip-off of pagan rituals should be completely unacceptable. Christ?s birth was not December 25, and none of today?s secular customs celebrate it. Furthermore, the Christ of the Gospels was an advocate of the poor; countless texts tell of his scorn for greed, money and the rich. The same goes for Saint Nicholas, the 4th Century Myran bishop who secretly gave anonymous gifts to the poor. The crass commercialization of Christmas today makes a mockery both Christian history and belief.

many of christmas' most notorious customs are shrouded in pagan origins. for instance date....

it's well known jesus wasn't born on dec 25. it was originally a celebration of the rebirth of the sun god saturnella (or something to that effect).

as far as giving.....

the three wise men gave gifts to jesus NOT to eachother.
there's nothing remarkable and selfless about a bunch of rich people expectedly giving overpriced, unnecessary crap (that'll most likely be returned) to each other while the needy are just as hungry as they were on october 7th (and colder, mind you).

[/b]and suicide rates are the highest of the year.... perennially. [/b]

Merry Xmas everyone!!!!

Just a simple coorelation? I think not!

i'm sorry.... what?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: slurmsmackenzie

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: slurmsmackenzie

Originally posted by: Zebo
Materialism has become a socieital norm. Christians simply arn't very Christian anymore. How else could they stand by for the slaughter in Iraq?

If you are a Christian, the fact that Christmas is a rip-off of pagan rituals should be completely unacceptable. Christ?s birth was not December 25, and none of today?s secular customs celebrate it. Furthermore, the Christ of the Gospels was an advocate of the poor; countless texts tell of his scorn for greed, money and the rich. The same goes for Saint Nicholas, the 4th Century Myran bishop who secretly gave anonymous gifts to the poor. The crass commercialization of Christmas today makes a mockery both Christian history and belief.

many of christmas' most notorious customs are shrouded in pagan origins. for instance date....

it's well known jesus wasn't born on dec 25. it was originally a celebration of the rebirth of the sun god saturnella (or something to that effect).

as far as giving.....

the three wise men gave gifts to jesus NOT to eachother.
there's nothing remarkable and selfless about a bunch of rich people expectedly giving overpriced, unnecessary crap (that'll most likely be returned) to each other while the needy are just as hungry as they were on october 7th (and colder, mind you).

and suicide rates are the highest of the year.... perennially.

Merry Xmas everyone!!!!

Just a simple coorelation? I think not!

i'm sorry.... what?

sorry missed a [ b ], its fixed

It's reaaly cold and miserable here (fargo) today 🙁 its actually painful to go outside.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Zebo

My tone? I did not write it you moron.

Mods is this really acceptable?....

with regards to this pathetic site linked to....I agree with the senitment that the guy is a cheapass and is finding excuses to not spend money first and foremost.

I know many who celebrate christmas, myself included who enjoy giving far more than they do recieving....and even if it were a pagan holiday I could care less, it is fun.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The Article is spot on!

the article is a BS excuse not to like something that is mainstream....a weak attempt at discouraging others of a like mind from having a nice holiday.

If you're going to bitch about anything then bitch about Valentine's Day or Sweetest day...but Christmas, why don't we start bitching about Hanukkah.