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Liberal reasons not to celebrate Christmas.
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slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
and your contribution thusfar? .... ubi, give him some of the real deal, and i'll follow it up with a lil dry cool wit. this vaguary you call a post makes me sick.
So I shouldn't be able to post what I want in this thread? I could throw out insults like so many others..want me to do that? Choose a side? Would that really help the debate?
Edit: I guess you feel attacked, but I don't know why. My post wasn't concerning your issue at all. I couldn't care less about how paganism relates to the christmas that christians celebrate today. And wtf is up with P&N, now there is attempted tag-teaming?
I didn't think this place could get any worse.
slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
post to your heart's content.... add another 8k to your total, by all means, but don't come in here and point a finger in no direction specifically and not expect someone who has invested time and resources to call you out on it. what you do is your business.
I always think of this scene from Young Frankenstein whenever anyone says they don't think it could get any worse. 🙂
[Froederick and Igor are exhuming a dead criminal]
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: What a filthy job.
Igor: Could be worse.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: How?
Igor: Could be raining.
[it starts to pour]
xmas *IS* stressful, and it makes me sad. It's like the whole world stops spinning because people get obsessed with doing xmas duties.
I'm not sure how killing a tree celebrates the glory of christ. Seems like nothing more than premature logging to me.
All the xmas commercials and propaganda sure grind the same old cliches into dust. If only I could hear the top 10 80s songs as often as i get assaulted with the top 10 xmas songs.
Personally, i hate getting gifts because it's usually stuff I'm not really interested in. People can prove their love for me as effectively by burning a $20 bill. At least if they did that, i wouldn't be stuck storing some useless trinket.
A lot of people genuinely love the rituals. that's great for them. But i believe a lot of others are just mass-hypnotized into thinking they have some "moral obligation" to buy a bunch of junk. Comments like "...too cheap to buy gifts..." sure helps perpetuate that mindset.
This is a good article to help people really re-examine what christmas means to them.
Even though I may rant my option in a public forum, I would never condemn someone's choice to celebrate however it makes them happiest. Hopefully everyone can be so respectful 😀
I'm not sure how killing a tree celebrates the glory of christ. Seems like nothing more than premature logging to me.
All the xmas commercials and propaganda sure grind the same old cliches into dust. If only I could hear the top 10 80s songs as often as i get assaulted with the top 10 xmas songs.
Personally, i hate getting gifts because it's usually stuff I'm not really interested in. People can prove their love for me as effectively by burning a $20 bill. At least if they did that, i wouldn't be stuck storing some useless trinket.
A lot of people genuinely love the rituals. that's great for them. But i believe a lot of others are just mass-hypnotized into thinking they have some "moral obligation" to buy a bunch of junk. Comments like "...too cheap to buy gifts..." sure helps perpetuate that mindset.
This is a good article to help people really re-examine what christmas means to them.
Even though I may rant my option in a public forum, I would never condemn someone's choice to celebrate however it makes them happiest. Hopefully everyone can be so respectful 😀
slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
doesn't exactly evoke memories of "a charlie brown christmas", but here ya go:
THE Christmas spirit is not Christian, because it did not originate with Christ. It predated the Christian era by many centuries. Shortly after the Flood the spirit and the whole celebration of Christmas had its beginning. It began with Nimrod, grandson of Ham the son of Noah, a wicked, ruthless dictator, responsible for the great organized worldly apostasy from God that continues to this day. In contempt for God and all decency Nimrod married his own mother, Semiramis. After his untimely death, his mother-wife, Semiramis, taught the lie that her husband-son was a spirit god. She claimed a full-grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth to new life of the dead Nimrod. She taught that on the anniversary of his birth, which was December 25, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. The historian, Professor Hislop, says: ?Now the Yule Log is the dead stock of Nimrod, deified as the sun-god, but cut down by his enemies; the Christmas-tree is Nimrod redivivus?the slain god come to life again.??The Two Babylons, pages 97, 98.
Christmas Tree
Some authorities attribute the origin of the Christmas tree to Boniface, who convinced the eighth-century Germans to abandon their worship of the sacred oak trees. According to the legend, when he chopped down one of their sacred oaks, a young fir tree grew up in its place. Boniface told the new converts that the fir would be their holy tree?the tree of Christ.
Others believe that the Christmas tree came from the paradise tree, popular in medieval Germany. The tree was the centerpiece in the paradise play honoring ?saints? Adam and Eve, whose feast was on December 24. It was decorated with apples and wafers.
Christmas tree decorations go back to pre-Christian Teutons who decorated their evergreens with coiled strings of fruit and grain in honor of the sacred dragon Nitthager. Glittering balls of gold were used to pay homage to Balder, god of the ever mystical sun. (Today, antigod communist lands such as Romania make a great deal of the Winter Tree Festival; decorated evergreens are featured, and last year in Bucharest, the capital, the center of attraction was ?a tree 70 feet tall, on which there were thousands of lights, golden globes and metal bells?.)
The same is true regarding the mistletoe. According to pagan traditions it was a divine branch that had come from heaven and represented the Savior; it was claimed that the god Loki in envy killed the handsome god Balder with a dart made from the mistletoe; all other plants having vowed not to harm Balder; the mistletoe, having been overlooked, was therefore used. According to this pagan tradition the mistletoe dart was plucked out of Balder?s fatal wound and given to the goddess of love, Freya, whence the custom that a lad may kiss a lass if he sees her under the mistletoe.
In ancient times both the mistletoe and wreaths of holly were hung in windows and doorways for their curative and protective powers, to keep witches and evil spirits from entering. According to another pagan superstition the red berries of the holly represented drops of blood of the pagan god Balder.
yeah, I do agree those are pretty stupid, I even slammed your first one there
Quote:
In regards to the above comment about Christians not being Christian by supporting the war in Iraq I was pretty sure that the head of the largest Christian denomination (the pope) denounced the invasion of Iraq.
I think the real issue is that Christmas is not very Christian anymore not that Christian religious observance is gone by the wayside. At least in the mainstream. That second quote is just ignorant and hateful.
Quote:
In regards to the above comment about Christians not being Christian by supporting the war in Iraq I was pretty sure that the head of the largest Christian denomination (the pope) denounced the invasion of Iraq.
I think the real issue is that Christmas is not very Christian anymore not that Christian religious observance is gone by the wayside. At least in the mainstream. That second quote is just ignorant and hateful.
slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
i just love to argue, ubi...
anyone that'll dignify my attempts at allucidated pontification with a response is a pleasure! lol
Slurm,
Your story for the pagan origin of the Christmas tree in relation to Balder typically comes from the Gylfaginning (The Deluding of Gylfi) that was composed by Snorri Sturluson. One problem though is that this work, as well as the entirety of Norse sagas are composed by Christian writers. So is this work, and Christmas by default, pagan or Christian? Haha, think that one over.
Your story for the pagan origin of the Christmas tree in relation to Balder typically comes from the Gylfaginning (The Deluding of Gylfi) that was composed by Snorri Sturluson. One problem though is that this work, as well as the entirety of Norse sagas are composed by Christian writers. So is this work, and Christmas by default, pagan or Christian? Haha, think that one over.
slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
chicken or the egg, huh? i think i'll have to sleep on that one. i think this thread has lost it's flavor. time to spit this piece of gum out, fellas. so until we differ on something else, ubi, happy lifetime and fvck holidays. love everyone everyday, not as a matter of obligation, but by way of a vigorous revamping of your soul. let the empathy you feel for everyone's collective sorrowful state as a result of our species' demise (especially those who are blinded to the fact) fuel your resolve to make this world a better place.
god bless (oh yeah, fvck religion, too)
PizzaYummy
Banned
There can be alot of pressure on people to give gifts they can't really afford and that part is bad and why some people naturally reject it.
If you want to buy presents for people and you can afford it then go on. If you can't afford it then don't
If anyone is upset because you did not give them a present then they are not deserving of a present anyways.
As far as the Christian part goes, well was Dec 25th the day jesus was born? No one knows. Since there is actually no particular date mentioned in the Bible and no other proof lying around we have no idea. It may have been. It is as good a day as any to celebrate the birth. Note that Easter is the day Jesus was resurrected. We celebreate that on a different day every year. Why? It doesn't mater if the date is right, you can celebrate it any time you like. Jesus' birth is worth celebrating any day of the year even on Dec 25th.
If you want to buy presents for people and you can afford it then go on. If you can't afford it then don't
If anyone is upset because you did not give them a present then they are not deserving of a present anyways.
As far as the Christian part goes, well was Dec 25th the day jesus was born? No one knows. Since there is actually no particular date mentioned in the Bible and no other proof lying around we have no idea. It may have been. It is as good a day as any to celebrate the birth. Note that Easter is the day Jesus was resurrected. We celebreate that on a different day every year. Why? It doesn't mater if the date is right, you can celebrate it any time you like. Jesus' birth is worth celebrating any day of the year even on Dec 25th.
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